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Jakki
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03 Oct 2023, 12:19 pm

Actually this is a example..of a city counsel doing this , i saw during the black lives movement the city council meeting i attended ,i saw two women whom put their name on the roster to speak one black one white .
Instead of calling on the white wonan after the blackwoman was done speaking, they called the blackwoman back up again to speak, and tried to close the city council meeting So this woman whom was having public difficulties apparently with police abuse aswell at her own home,as told to me by her and got noresponse from her areas city council woman . So she stood up to address the counsel meeting and The blackwoman secretary of the city council , motioned to the High ranking police officer,to completely remove this other white woman out of the meeting.
She made no fuss, or any complaint as her , Freedom of Speech civil right was removed at that moment in time.
Now , if any one can figure out ,what happened in that Public meeting process? i would love to here of it.????.


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03 Oct 2023, 12:26 pm

KitLily wrote:
GadgetGuru wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Women need men to guide them.
I'm convinced that the opposite is true (at least for me). I go off the rails without the guiding force of a female mind in close proximity.
I think my husband would agree. Even our 17 year old daughter sometimes has to talk sense into him! :lol:

LONG before I worked up the nerve to try dating, at age 30, I knew that I could only have meaningful conversations with women. Often women much older than me. They just seemed more in tune with other people (especially me), and gave me less of an impression that they were acting in a certain way to fit in.

Although it's often said that autistic women are better at general-purpose social masking than autistic men (something I agree with), women in general present themselves more honestly as far as being able to communicative emotionally, I think, and could be said to mask this aspect of themselves less.

Given that I so often failed to fit a stereotypical "manly man" sort of profile, I would often find myself at a permanent distance from men and other boys that stuck fast to this idealized image of masculinity. Hearing the way many boys and men talk about women in private has often annoyed and even shocked me, at times. I just couldn't understand how they came to this attitude. I'd see a young man being successful with women, all the while displaying attitudes and behaviors that I found revolting, and wonder if that was the way you had to act to obtain a relationship.

When I was young, the extent of the sophistication of my attitude was little more than "always be nice to girls". This eventually led to me "eating" my feelings when I felt genuinely hurt by something said to me by a woman that I deeply cared about, and this bottling eventually led to the most awful sort of meltdowns, with me being in full panic mode, unable to stop myself from reacting in anger to what an impartial outside observer would seem like the most trivial possible issue.

I grew to hate myself deeply for my inability to indefinitely cope with what I knew were minor jibes, in the moment. I believe that I'll never fully recover from the self-loathing that I've developed because of this. I do not blame any woman for what I've felt, as it's my own lack of self-awareness that has led to this.

As is always the case, communication would have been the key to a better relationship, but my inability to communicate anything but fear, anger and shocked surprise in those meltdowns led to an ever-increasing emotional distance. Since my diagnoses, I know much more about why I react in such ways, but this is of limited utility, given that it seems that my innate emotional responses are at fault to a large extent. It seems that at best, I can make every effort to SAY when I'm feeling hurt, but even that has often proven to be difficult for me to do, and would sometimes bring on a backlash for me being too sensitive.

So, what do I do, just force myself to give up on the idea of being close to a woman ever again? Am I being selfish for even wanting this so much? I find the idea that I can do emotional damage to a woman, however unintentionally, to be about the most horrifying thing I've ever experienced in life.


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03 Oct 2023, 12:50 pm

Oh, damn, I think I've strayed way off of the topic of this thread.
My apologies!


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03 Oct 2023, 12:55 pm

GadgetGuru wrote:
KitLily wrote:
GadgetGuru wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Women need men to guide them.
I'm convinced that the opposite is true (at least for me). I go off the rails without the guiding force of a female mind in close proximity.
I think my husband would agree. Even our 17 year old daughter sometimes has to talk sense into him! :lol:

LONG before I worked up the nerve to try dating, at age 30, I knew that I could only have meaningful conversations with women. Often women much older than me. They just seemed more in tune with other people (especially me), and gave me less of an impression that they were acting in a certain way to fit in.

Although it's often said that autistic women are better at general-purpose social masking than autistic men (something I agree with), women in general present themselves more honestly as far as being able to communicative emotionally, I think, and could be said to mask this aspect of themselves less.

Given that I so often failed to fit a stereotypical "manly man" sort of profile, I would often find myself at a permanent distance from men and other boys that stuck fast to this idealized image of masculinity. Hearing the way many boys and men talk about women in private has often annoyed and even shocked me, at times. I just couldn't understand how they came to this attitude. I'd see a young man being successful with women, all the while displaying attitudes and behaviors that I found revolting, and wonder if that was the way you had to act to obtain a relationship.

When I was young, the extent of the sophistication of my attitude was little more than "always be nice to girls". This eventually led to me "eating" my feelings when I felt genuinely hurt by something said to me by a woman that I deeply cared about, and this bottling eventually led to the most awful sort of meltdowns, with me being in full panic mode, unable to stop myself from reacting in anger to what an impartial outside observer would seem like the most trivial possible issue.

I grew to hate myself deeply for my inability to indefinitely cope with what I knew were minor jibes, in the moment. I believe that I'll never fully recover from the self-loathing that I've developed because of this. I do not blame any woman for what I've felt, as it's my own lack of self-awareness that has led to this.

As is always the case, communication would have been the key to a better relationship, but my inability to communicate anything but fear, anger and shocked surprise in those meltdowns led to an ever-increasing emotional distance. Since my diagnoses, I know much more about why I react in such ways, but this is of limited utility, given that it seems that my innate emotional responses are at fault to a large extent. It seems that at best, I can make every effort to SAY when I'm feeling hurt, but even that has often proven to be difficult for me to do, and would sometimes bring on a backlash for me being too sensitive.

So, what do I do, just force myself to give up on the idea of being close to a woman ever again? Am I being selfish for even wanting this so much? I find the idea that I can do emotional damage to a woman, however unintentionally, to be about the most horrifying thing I've ever experienced in life.



If you are going to go through life desperately afraid of speaking to women because you may unintentionally do emotional damage to them, you need to put your big boy pants on. Most women are not precious China dolls who are going to get the vapors if you speak with them.



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03 Oct 2023, 1:36 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I borrowed this thread title from the movie Women Talking.

I've been thinking a lot about the social expectations placed on girls and women about the ways they should communicate, verbally or in written form, which differ from the standards allowed to men or people whose gender isn't disclosed.

What I've noticed is that if I rant, become sarcastic, or have a bad day and express my feelings with harsh language, tone, or an "attitude", I'm judged very harshly. This seems to be true online even if I don't do personal attacks or indirect / covert attacks on anyone, or break any rules, but rather just speak my mind the way men often do with impunity. It also happens in real life when I have a meltdown or express anger, sarcasm, or a bad mood of any sort.

I don't want to hear that the social norms are different for women. I can clearly see that. I live that every day. I want to use this thread to express how painful it is for me to be vilified for speaking my mind, expressing emotion, and otherwise defending myself when I've been attacked, judged, or hurt by someone else.

I also want people to share their own experiences and observations about how damaging this gender norm can be.

Thank you!


I don't really experience this and never have. Maybe I just don't care or am immune to it.

To be fair though for the first 20 or so years of my life I lived as a male and was treated as a male because literally people thought I was male so that may have something to do with it. And then people have said I have an androgynous personality so maybe I can get away with it. I dunno though to be honest. Sorry I can't empathise.


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03 Oct 2023, 1:45 pm

Dear Rse92, hope someday you can find a woman to talk to ,and sometimes being an older women can lead to a greater understanding of men that might have difficulties expressing themselves around women . Especially Aspie males . And your consideration of Women and their feelings is to be applauded . TYVM . Kind statement in passing by men can reveal a volume about most men , imho . :D


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05 Oct 2023, 4:04 pm

It’s not uncommon, when a woman states an opinion, for people to suggest that a man is behind it in some way - that she feels strongly because her partner feels that way. People also sometimes suggest that it’s bad for a woman to have strong opinions because of how men will feel.

When I got into a debate once, a person said: “It’s no wonder no man wants you.” Men wanted me. I was single by choice, but that’s not the point.

On another occasion, someone said: “I feel bad for your husband.” I left that sexually, physically, and emotionally abusive as*hole years before, but that’s not the point.

Men don’t seem to experience the same thing or, at least, certainly not as often when they engage in similar debates with people even when they exhibit confrontational behavior that I do not.


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blitzkrieg
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05 Oct 2023, 5:37 pm

^ Men do experience accusations of being controlled by their women partners, particularly in heterosexual relationships where a man has friends and has less time for friends because he spends his leisure time with his female partner.

But that is usually in terms of decision-making, and the fact that many men have their social decisions made by women.

It depends on the type of culture a person lives in. I imagine in the US, many men would be more dominant in a stereotypical way in terms of their social standing, which might influence things in the situation you describe.



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05 Oct 2023, 5:39 pm

I was mostly referring to online interactions.


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05 Oct 2023, 5:40 pm

People should be able to state their opinions without having partners (real or imaginary) dragged into it. It’s sexist ad hominem.


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05 Oct 2023, 5:41 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I was mostly referring to online interactions.


I have never thought any of your strong opinions have been because of a man, on a personal level.

I know that's just one person (me). :)



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05 Oct 2023, 6:48 pm

With my ex, a good rule of thumb was to have the opposite opinion of whatever his was. It never let me down because he was consistently wrong about almost everything. He had a knack for it.


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06 Oct 2023, 1:21 am

Lost_dragon wrote:
I've had pushback when making jokes. Just the typical sexist nonsense. 'This is why women aren't funny'. 'Woman moment'. Unfortunately it's a double whammy because if you respond to this then apparently you're being overly sensitive.


That is so rude! And crazy.

I just laugh at my own jokes when/if that happens, and continue to laugh, even if men don't.


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06 Oct 2023, 1:33 am

GadgetGuru wrote:
LONG before I worked up the nerve to try dating, at age 30, I knew that I could only have meaningful conversations with women. Often women much older than me. They just seemed more in tune with other people (especially me), and gave me less of an impression that they were acting in a certain way to fit in.

Given that I so often failed to fit a stereotypical "manly man" sort of profile, I would often find myself at a permanent distance from men and other boys that stuck fast to this idealized image of masculinity. Hearing the way many boys and men talk about women in private has often annoyed and even shocked me, at times. I just couldn't understand how they came to this attitude. I'd see a young man being successful with women, all the while displaying attitudes and behaviors that I found revolting, and wonder if that was the way you had to act to obtain a relationship.

As is always the case, communication would have been the key to a better relationship, but my inability to communicate anything but fear, anger and shocked surprise in those meltdowns led to an ever-increasing emotional distance. Since my diagnoses, I know much more about why I react in such ways, but this is of limited utility, given that it seems that my innate emotional responses are at fault to a large extent. It seems that at best, I can make every effort to SAY when I'm feeling hurt, but even that has often proven to be difficult for me to do, and would sometimes bring on a backlash for me being too sensitive.

So, what do I do, just force myself to give up on the idea of being close to a woman ever again? Am I being selfish for even wanting this so much? I find the idea that I can do emotional damage to a woman, however unintentionally, to be about the most horrifying thing I've ever experienced in life.


My husband said when he met me that I was the only woman he'd met under 30 who knew what he was talking about and got his jokes. I'm 3 years older than him. He's not a stereotyped macho jerk man either.

I think it is a terrible fault of society, probably has been for a long time, that discourages men from talking about or even feeling emotions. That needs to change. The only emotion men are 'allowed' to feel is anger, so every feeling gets channelled into anger, which is obviously pretty dangerous for everyone concerned.


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06 Oct 2023, 2:04 am

KitLily wrote:
I think it is a terrible fault of society, probably has been for a long time, that discourages men from talking about or even feeling emotions. That needs to change. The only emotion men are 'allowed' to feel is anger, so every feeling gets channeled into anger, which is obviously pretty dangerous for everyone concerned.
I was allowed to express emotions, but only under specific conditions.

Happiness . . . when saying "thank you" for a gift that either didn't fit or that I didn't like (usually both).

Sadness . . . when someone whom I hated for abusing me had died.

Anger . . . well . . . never.

Nothing . . . at all other times.


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06 Oct 2023, 2:30 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
This seems to be true online even if I don't do personal attacks or indirect / covert attacks on anyone, or break any rules, but rather just speak my mind the way men often do with impunity. It also happens in real life when I have a meltdown or express anger, sarcasm, or a bad mood of any sort.

Yeah, I certainly feel this. It's exhausting. There shouldn't be a double standard. People should be free to speak how they want to as long as rules aren't being broken. If there's something that I feel strongly about for some reason, I don't want to expend the energy to adapt my speech to fit prescribed gender norms. I want to focus on saying what I want to say - to express my opinion or viewpoint. Others are free to do the same.

The women in my family adhere strictly to gender norms because, in the culture I grew up in, gender was viewed as very important. Men and women were practically a different species. I tended to talk more like the men in my family. I have a soft, feminine voice, but I usually get straight to the point and say what I mean rather than beating about the bush. My mom and aunts don't fully seem to get me because of this although, if anything, I should be easier to understand because I say exactly what I'm thinking and meaning. Well, I'm tactful and avoid hurting people's feelings. (No, that dress doesn't make you look fat. That sort of thing).

Perhaps this stuff can make a person feel like a bit of an outsider. I tend not to talk a lot. I wouldn't change the way I am, though. There's nothing wrong with marching to the beat of your own drum.


Eww I hate the whole women and men are different species....like stupid men are from mars women are from venus s**t. how about we are all just people some of us are heterosexual and that is fine but also who cares if people are gay, non binary or trans. like so long as no one is being inappropriate what is the problem. like sure if a trans person is getting all up in your space when you have asked them to stop that is harrassment, but it is unfair to jsut assume trans peopl existing is inappropriate. LIke if they make moves on you that you don't consent to inappropriate, if they are simply existing in the same hot tub you went into 'not inappropriate'. Like I'd be fine sharing a hot-tub with a naked man or trans person because they are just there to enjoy the hot tub, nudity does not have to mean 'sex'. Like I think that is a weird mentality us americans have that like nudity always is sexual...like it doesn't have to be.

But people nowdays think drag-queens are indoctrinating kids to be trans and preforming sex stuff in front of kids, like just stop, like drag queens reading to kids is them reading appropriate childrens books to kids, they aren't exposing their genitals to kids and telling them how to identify they are just doing entertaining book readings for children. LIke what it has to be twisted somehow because no way trans people are just normal and would also never want a child to be harmed. LIke I for sure have no interest in having kids, but like kids are still important, they are people to. And I would imagine moste trans people feel the same on that and certainly aren't showing kids inappropriate things.


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