How come the outside world hates us?

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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Sep 2023, 2:05 pm

People seem to hate each other, we're people, therefore they hate us like they hate anyone else.

I think our problem is a lot of us were raised with the idea that we have a social skills disability, that we need to show more reciprocity, we then expect reciprocity to be the norm. We go out and talk to people, don't get reciprocity, and wonder what we did wrong. The problem isn't that we did something wrong, rather we were taught incorrectly that reciprocity is a social norm when in many if not most cases it isn't.

What does society react positively to? Looks mostly, financial achievement second, and WAY down the list the quality of person you are. We're taught the opposite, try to improve ourselves, go out, get treated like dirt, and it's a horrible loop that you get stuck in until you figure out what's happening. People seem to want the right to treat each other like crap, they want the right to treat you like crap, and nothing offends them more than a person who they want to treat like crap acting in a way that takes away their right to treat them like crap. That's not to say act in a way that gives them the right to treat you like crap, just expect few wins because it's a zero-sum environment.


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blitzkrieg
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16 Sep 2023, 2:44 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Most seem to experience some level of bullying unless they are among the select few of ultra-popular kids.

Boys tied me to a tree and hit and kicked me when I was 9 or 10. That was just one of the incidents.


Sorry to hear of this, TP.



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16 Sep 2023, 2:50 pm

Thanks. It really wasn’t that bad. I hurt my feet when I got away and ran through the woods, though. I’m not sure why I was barefoot.



blitzkrieg
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16 Sep 2023, 2:51 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Thanks. It really wasn’t that bad. I hurt my feet when I got away and ran through the woods, though. I’m not sure why I was barefoot.


Hmm, maybe you didn't like shoes? :D



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16 Sep 2023, 3:01 pm

I didn’t, but I always wore them in the woods.



blitzkrieg
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16 Sep 2023, 3:07 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I didn’t, but I always wore them in the woods.


Maybe the bullies took your shoes? :o



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16 Sep 2023, 3:36 pm

babybird wrote:
What's the short bus

It’s for the special need kids, the special education bus.


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16 Sep 2023, 4:21 pm

Misslizard wrote:
babybird wrote:
What's the short bus

It’s for the special need kids, the special education bus.

In popular culture:

Image


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SkinnyElephant
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16 Sep 2023, 4:53 pm

MaxE wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
Here's my response: Based on the stories a lot of us have from our school days, I'd say it's safe to claim the outside world hates us.
Many people are victims of bullying when they are in school. It’s not just an autistic thing. It’s easy to make generalizations about the world based on the behavior of some people, but their behavior does not reflect most people. Even though it can seem like it, most of us weren’t bullied by all or even most of our peers when we were in school/school-aged. It’s usually just a select group. I’m not saying that it doesn’t cause a lot of harm, but I don’t think it’s fair or accurate to claim that the “outside world hates us.”

The autistic men I know offline do not feel particularly hated because they aren’t.

I don't think all of us will agree with this, although it may have been worse for my generation, when those more "mildly" affected by autism weren't diagnosed and therefore didn't "officially" have anything wrong with them, but our peers saw us as different, misunderstood our behavior, and acted accordingly.

But I guess younger autistic men, such as my wife's 20-year-old nephew (diagnosed with AS when that was still a thing), haven't really experienced intense bullying. They spent their school years with the "special" group or attended a special school and everyone basically new why their behavior was atypical.


I'm somewhere probably in the middle of your wife's nephew and yourself. I'm in my 30s.

I officially found out I was on the spectrum in middle school. I never told anyone at school. I was the kid who was different enough to be excluded, yet not quite different enough to be in special ed.



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16 Sep 2023, 4:56 pm

MaxE wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Many people are bullied whether they are autistic or not. I experienced some physical bullying by boys. It still wasn’t most boys that I knew or the world at large.

I think my dad and brother are on the spectrum, but they haven’t been diagnosed. Neither of them experienced bullying by most of their peers, just a subset of them. My son and nephew who are diagnosed haven’t experienced any bullying yet. They are 12 and 13.

It's usually just a few "leaders" who actively bully. Others can be quite civil when those aren't around, but don't openly defy those leaders. What you say pretty much jibes with my personal experience. I vaguely recall my first girlfriend, who I now believe to have been on the spectrum, telling me she'd been bullied in school but I don't recall any details.


Another thing to take into account: It's possible to hate someone without bullying him/her.

I've found out the hard way I was hated by some of my peers even if they never bullied me.



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16 Sep 2023, 5:00 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
I think 'hate' may be too strong a word. But autistic people in particular are statistically very much underemployed & often unemployed, versus people who are considered to have a different disability than autism. This is well documented by the national autistic society in the UK.

One of the reasons why autistic people are effectively frozen out of the economy in many cases, is because employers don't understand that autistic people can have high strengths in certain areas, and don't exploit the potential of autistic folk which is a form of discrimination (which could be interpreted as hatred by some).

Autistic folk, in a similar way to black folk or women, are less likely to be promoted, less likely to earn better wages and so on.

My feeling has always been that society 'dislikes' autistic folk. Socially impaired folk are often ostracized by society. I think if people don't perceive this, then it is not because the discrimination doesn't exist, but because people aren't aware of it.

https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/news/new-data-on-the-autism-employment-gap


I had a boss who treated my status (being on the spectrum) as some type of mental handicap. You're right; employers misunderstand us. You're also right when you point out a lot of us have strengths that could be utilized in the workplace.

My IQ is probably higher than that boss.



blitzkrieg
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16 Sep 2023, 5:06 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
I think 'hate' may be too strong a word. But autistic people in particular are statistically very much underemployed & often unemployed, versus people who are considered to have a different disability than autism. This is well documented by the national autistic society in the UK.

One of the reasons why autistic people are effectively frozen out of the economy in many cases, is because employers don't understand that autistic people can have high strengths in certain areas, and don't exploit the potential of autistic folk which is a form of discrimination (which could be interpreted as hatred by some).

Autistic folk, in a similar way to black folk or women, are less likely to be promoted, less likely to earn better wages and so on.

My feeling has always been that society 'dislikes' autistic folk. Socially impaired folk are often ostracized by society. I think if people don't perceive this, then it is not because the discrimination doesn't exist, but because people aren't aware of it.

https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/news/new-data-on-the-autism-employment-gap


I had a boss who treated my status (being on the spectrum) as some type of mental handicap. You're right; employers misunderstand us. You're also right when you point out a lot of us have strengths that could be utilized in the workplace.

My IQ is probably higher than that boss.


My experiences in the workplace have been similar to what you have just said above.

It is a sad thing. :(



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29 Sep 2023, 8:29 pm

Humans just naturally hate anyone who is different, they see such people as something that is "defective" or "weak" or "inferior". In the wild, weaker animals are often abused, bullied and killed by the stronger animals in their family in order to ensure their own survival. Humans are no different. Humans supposedly have the intelligence and morality to know they just should leave us alone, because our "normal" is different from theirs but not "wrong". But they don't. In fact, humans love being intolerant and cruel because it is "fun". It's their evil nature.



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29 Sep 2023, 9:32 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:
I don't get why the outside world hates us so much. Seriously. For the most part, we don't tend to be jerks. Just different.
I know why people hate me:

• I fight back, instead of being intimidated into silence.

• I prioritized studying, doing my homework, and aceing tests during school years and military service.

• I reported bullying and harassment in the workplace, without regard to the anyone's social status, anger, or threats.

• Nicotine addicts perceived it as personal attacks when I have asked for non-smoking workplaces, especially when my requests were granted.

• Reason, logic, and results are more important to me in problem-solving than assumption, guesswork, and assigning blame.

• Standing up against racism and sexism are also important to me.

• While in the military, I prioritized being where I was supposed to be, when I was supposed to be there, and doing what I was supposed to be doing. I also kept my quarters clean, my uniforms in order, and my haircut the proper length.

So yeah, I was "That Guy" whom everybody hated for being a "Sell-Out", a "Suck-up", and an "Arrogant Bastard".  They also hated me for making them look like fools and slackers by comparison -- not my goals, that's just how it worked out.



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30 Sep 2023, 3:09 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
Humans just naturally hate anyone who is different, they see such people as something that is "defective" or "weak" or "inferior". In the wild, weaker animals are often abused, bullied and killed by the stronger animals in their family in order to ensure their own survival. Humans are no different. Humans supposedly have the intelligence and morality to know they just should leave us alone, because our "normal" is different from theirs but not "wrong". But they don't. In fact, humans love being intolerant and cruel because it is "fun". It's their evil nature.


We occupy a unique place. We're simultaneously viewed as weak and dangerous.



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30 Sep 2023, 4:21 pm

Nobody views me as dangerous. :cry: