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yourkiddingme3
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 11 May 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 127
Location: New Jersey

08 Aug 2016, 6:06 am

I apologize for the length of this post. This is the actual email exchange between my elder child and me. I see no way to change myself sufficiently to adapt to his demands.

Another of Mom's peculiarities you might not have appreciated in full
Inbox
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Jul 18

to Lucas, Geoffrey
Like most Aspies, I have an over-sensitivity to disappointment and little ability to patiently wait for outcomes I desire.

My coping mechanism, first used in grade school when my parents refused to agree to get me a metal foal model for Hanukkah, is Buddhist: in defense of my over-attachment to what I cannot have, I cut the attachment.

So, when my parents in fact gave me the metal foal as a Hanukkah present, I no longer wanted it. Ditto for the horse vacuum cleaner.

Similarly, when Melinda Lowell "betrayed" me in third or fourth grade, I terminated our friendship. I simply could not bear the pain of another betrayal, which I assumed must follow.

By the time Joffe betrayed me by putting the blame on me for something he had ordered (the client was hysterical, literally off her lithium), I had "matured" enough to at least pretend I could still work with him.

Of course, trust was much more important to me in my marriage. I gave your father the benefit of the doubt until the day he told me he had, without consulting me, agreed to stop looking for a job for a $1000 payment from his shrink to prepare for a sculpture show. On that day, when you father refused to honor his previous promise to me, my ridiculous trust in him was finally killed. Which meant the marriage was over in that moment as well.

Obviously, one thread running through all of this is that my Aspie view of promises, contracts, trust, and the contours of betrayal are not the flexible things they are to neurotypicals. The second thread is that I have developed only one coping mechanism for the Aspie disproportionatelyl extreme pain of betrayal of trust by those few people in whom I repose trust.

Also, because I know I am easily fooled to trust excessively and do not recognize the signs or circumstances of what will feel to me like betrayal when it happens, I constantly scrutinize my interactions now and constantly jump to conclusions that are probably incorrect.

I tell myself they are incorrect, but fear my one coping mechanism, cutting off relations with or, at a minimum, distancing myself from my "betrayers," will take over.

With you, my children, I am working hard to avoid letting that coping mechanism rule. But I cannot hold it off forever.

What would help a lot would be for you to (a) call me once a week; and (b) promptly respond to difficult emails from me even if just with a "trying to cope with something myself right now, don't mean to blow you off."

Love,

Mom

Lucas
Jul 18

to me
First, I love you and I believe you love me, even if we are upset right now because you feel ignored and I feel as if you have unfair expectations of what I can do or should be expected to do, even if I want to meet them.

Second, I have been out of pocket for the past week and have not had a truly free moment to reply to your previous message, and I apologize if you feel as if I was trying to blow you off. My not replying has very little to do with not wanting to respond to a difficult email and has much more to do with my ability to respond. Had it not been a difficult email, a short reply would have sufficed but did not have the time to provide you with a fuller response. In the future, I will try to send you a short "currently involved with X, will reply soon" so you do not feel ignored.

That said, this isn't a truly free moment either, but I promise (and have enlisted Thanh to hold me to it) to reply more fully within the day (even if it involves a late night). I do want to discuss this further and work this out and I believe it can and should be.

Love,
-Lucas


Lucas
Jul 19

to me
[I wish I had footnotes...]

Earlier, you asked me about the obstacles preventing me from visiting you, or knowing the dates to visit you. There are unfortunately many moving pieces to this question, including actual scheduled-months-in-advance commitments of time -
(e.g. Finals, friend's wedding, vacation trip, abstract and manuscript due dates, the associated conference)
And the politics and logistics of asking for time where I can leave responsibilities here behind in safe keeping -
(e.g. arranging caretaking for the dogs, specific wedding planning pieces, free use of the car that isn't mine, managing Thanh's separate set of responsibilities that I may have a part in, and getting final permission from my boss)
And finally there is the irrational piece of my own lackluster performance in setting future planning of stressful/productive events regardless of my particular interests in them. This is consistent even to wedding planning (drives Thanh crazy). This is not a fair barrier to any individual, but it is a true one that is simply one of my own personal struggles. Visiting you does unfortunately fall into this category.

In this particular case, the dogs (Mun of the broken leg and spayed... something) have finally healed to the point that one person or third-parties can reasonably take care of them, so the issues now are the upcoming conference next week for which I was told, quote, "you have a lot of work to do for this paper" even after we submitted the manuscript. Thanh's sister is pregnant (second child) and due around early September and Thanh and/or I may be called up at any time to help transport or run errands, so Thanh feels increasingly uncomfortable not being present with her car to help out. And of course my own personal foibles in getting myself to plan, which are difficult to quantify.

I tell you all this because you asked, but it feels to me as if in your mind that it was an entitled demand for an explanation, followed up by this morning's email containing for all intents and purposes a threat to label me a "betrayer" in your mind, even unconsciously. I don't think you meant it as such, mind you, but you should know that this is how it came across. You're the mommy - should your child be scrambling to maintain your love? Perhaps this is just my own paranoia - the threat can also be interpreted innocently as psychological insight. This is however not an uncommon type of feeling. If you ask something of me, I often feel stressed about delivering, fearing that I am failing in my duties otherwise. I feel, and think perhaps you feel, that I am obligated to deliver. This could be a requirement that I come home and help build a fence (an example from college) on short notice, or perform some sort of research or intervene on your behalf with a party you find difficult to deal with. I find it difficult to say no, even if it is the right thing for me both on an individual task basis and more broadly, and for you in that you need correct expectations of how the world will work out. But I feel as if these are orders from what is essentially another boss, for whom at STPI at least I always had to restrain from overpromising. I want to help, but I feel I also have to, or otherwise be a bad son.

I do not believe that this is the way it should be. These are not responsibilities that I signed up for as I have for a job, at the very least not without what might be considered cultural duress (Jewish-style parenting and all). Nor am I an equivalent peer-individual for you, suitable for co-dependence where such expectations are balanced by mutual continuous support. I know this is not the case all the time, and you are often very reasonable if I cannot talk at a particular moment or I need to delay for a particular reason, but the overall effect of expectation is consistent.

This is not to necessarily point a finger of blame. I would not be surprised (though cannot be sure) that you believe my support to be owed to you to one degree or another because that's how parent-child relationships work because because. And I'm not unaware of how much you have to do for grandmother, which may easily be extended to looking for support from your own children (though you are not yet at Grandmother's level, even if you are concerned with your own progress [which we should discuss further later]). For my part, it doesn't help that I'm a people-pleaser who dislikes confrontation, and doesn't quite have the self-respect to think there's anything wrong with the world the way it is. I probably also have some kind of "knight-in-shining-armor" complex as Thanh has put it - you should ask Thanh about the time in college where I almost left her gasping for air on the side of the street in the "rush" to get to a mutual friend at the hospital (who wasn't going anywhere soon). In general, I also want to help even when I shouldn't or when I should know myself better about the likelihood of my delivering on expectations.

So you asked when I'm coming up to New Jersey. The answer is when I want to and can make it happen. Doing so is not a strict filial responsibility that I have and it's distressing (and from a psychological basis almost certainly counterproductive for you) and inappropriate to have it laid out as such. That said, despite the tone of much of this email (and boy is it unexpectedly difficult to write, even if I feel it is necessary and better for our relationship in the long run) I do want to see you. I'm looking at this August 6th, the weekend after my conference, as a promising (but not set or assured) long weekend. I will almost certainly need to arrive and depart by bus/train and sans-Thanh, which will complicate things but it can still work. All of this is of course subject to change (not a promise), but it is the plan in development.

Moving on, in your email this morning, you asked for two measures: a) to call once a week and b) to respond to difficult emails in a timely fashion even if it is to delay. As to the former, I should not promise to a schedule that would always have to shift, but I have no problem in trying to make it happen, and will happily employ external aids (my phone syncs with my calendar helpfully) to keep things going. I am also fine with you calling me out of the blue which actually seems to have a reasonably good success rate for you, at least with me.

As to the latter, I will try but I have a worse track record. Ideally we should be having as few difficult emails as possible. Fast responses when things are truly just busy (rather than the email being distressing, encouraging my favorite coping mechanism - avoidance!) are much more doable, and part of the current set of habits I have been trying to put into practice in any case. I would note that nobody is perfect on such things - recently I sent you an "are you alive" message that you saw and ignored for a time, which somewhat distressed me since you live alone on a dangerous farm where some horse could kick you in the head and nobody might notice for a long time. I'm not exactly mad about it - it just seems like a poor practice not to reply - but you should be able to thus understand that sometimes we can't bring ourselves to do reasonable things even for loved ones. Moral virtues as habits are lifelong goals to cultivate after all (thanks, Aristotle!)

A final small thing: I would remind you that I have asked both you (and my father) to not openly malign the other in my presence. It's distressing, especially when I am trying to maintain a positive relationship with both of you. Similarly, I largely edit each of you out my dealings with the other, whether you say you care or not.

Please forgive me if this essay does not track fully, and please make charitable interpretations of ambiguities and grammatical errors - it is late and this kind of subject has a fairly high likelihood of scatterbrain at the best of times. But I wanted to fulfill my promise to send a follow-on tonight. I love you unconditionally, even if we can argue about what that means precisely. To me, this in part means that I will always try to understand you and treat you as an end-in-itself whose positive outcomes I am always interested in, if I am appropriating the Kant correctly. Perhaps this is less deep than I am hoping, but I hope you take it for the intent.

Love,
-Lucas

PS: I hate taking this distant tone crap, but it's another coping mechanism for stressful s**t when I'm trying to be serious. And writing this was more important than using my preferred written voice.


Claudia
Jul 19

to Lucas
I do love you and will always love you. That means I will always be passionately interested in what you do and your well-being. It also means you can hurt me more than anyone else except Jess.

I spent most of my life enduring hurts that I mistakenly thought everyone felt, and it has exhausted me. I no longer can expose myself to so many hurts. There are few options on how to avoid such exposure.

One major source of hurt for me is that I take "promises" and "contracts" and "duties" literally. As of May of this year, I realize that most other "good" people do not, but all that does is stop me from labeling such people as "bad." It does not stop the hurt.

From a practical viewpoint, it would be very helpful to me for you to tell me what you DO think your filial duties are, and where they fall among life priorities. My impression from your letter is very strong that you have a different view of these duties than I do, both in their nature and in their priority (FREX, your letter implies that you view duties toward the sibling of your fiance as more important than those toward your mother.)

I would write more now, but I have to meet a surveyor at Grandmother's house to plan a minor subdivision as her farm is not selling as one piece. Amusingly, I feel that I do the minimum to meet my obligations to Grandmother, because even that minimum overwhelms me. But that minimum is so much more than you apparently define as your maximum. It would greatly help me to adjust my expectations (disappointed expectations are a source of great pain as you know) for you to be as specific as possible in describing your definition of your duties to me, and their priority. Please note that I don't care if you come to my funeral; I'll be dead.

BTW, physically and emotionally and strength of will-wise, I am in a much worse place than Grandmother. It is only intellectually that I'm in relatively good, if deteriorating, shape.

I suppose my tone is cold as well, though my feelings are not. Perhaps you inherited that from me.

Love,

Mom

PS: I take it that Vietnamese filial precepts are nothing like those in the Chinese and Korean dramas I watch. Those are WAY more strict than Jewish filial precepts. In modern Jewish morality, duties to one's children trumps duties one's parents, even if there is no commandment about it other than "Honor thy father and mother."


Claudia
Jul 19

to Lucas
BTW, forgot to say that any time you come up here, I'll pay for you renting a car. There is absolutely no reason for you to wear down Thanh's or rely on public transportation.

Love,

Mom


Lucas
1:57 AM (4 hours ago)

to me
Hi Mom,

So replying in proper longform took rather longer than I expected, for which I apologize. I also said that I was quite happy to call on a semi-regular basis and have not for some time, for which I also apologize. I have in fact been very busy, but I cannot deny that I may also have been avoidant. I also saw your phone call earlier today, and wanted to send this before I tried to restate this poorly when I call back.

The basic gist is that I do believe I have filial duties, primarily in regards to helping take care of you in cases where you truly cannot take care of yourself. However, I do not believe that filial duty means that some of the things a parent asks a child to do must be done simply because a parent has asked. Some things you request, but others you expect must be done, a degree of obligation which I don't believe exists.

For instance you often couch things in terms of "For Mother's Day/my birthday/X, I want you to do Y" which you treat as obligatory when it's really, at best, a helpful suggestion that should be and is taken into account, but again, is not required. I could reasonably give you something else for Mother's Day or choose to give nothing at all if I want to (however childish this particular sentiment may sound). Nevertheless, gifts not freely given are not gifts and they are not obligations.

I also believe it should be regarded as laudable, though not required, to assist you in the other problems you experience when you would like (rather than strictly need) help. Additionally, it is often good and helpful to provide an explanation as to why I am not doing something that you have asked (e.g. visiting at X time), especially if there are deterrents that can be easily fixed, but my worry is that you treat what I tell you merely as obstacles to be overcome without respecting the value I place on particular contributors to my decisions. Explaining the situation and my rationale is not something I am against, but I should not be pressured by you into providing a satisfactory explanation that meets your standards, or feel that I am remiss if it fails to do so. You asked once about invisible obstacles to my visiting which I was willing to provide; however, your initial request and your response to my explanations imply that were asking me to justify rather than explain. Prior explanations notwithstanding, I do have various and significant responsibilities and tasks that still prevent me from being able to visit, and I worry that talking about them with you would just result in my having to justify their importance.

Furthermore, I don't agree that my decisions can be broken down into straightforward competing obligations/duties/etc. towards different people in my life - and oftentimes my choices aren't based on what I view as duty so much as a desire to help. For example, it is not only incorrect on its face but petty to suggest that I am choosing "the sibling of my fiance" over my mother. Answering a phone call from you, say, does not trump my helping someone bleeding out on the sidewalk in front of me, and not answering does not imply that I view my duty toward the stranger as more important than my duty toward you. This is intentionally absurd, but it is the same kind of reduction of my situation as you provided.

However, it may be more important to address how I think you try to rely on me beyond what is reasonable or healthy - for you, for me, and for our relationship - both with regard to subject matter or the degree of your request.

I understand your request to involve myself in uncomfortable situations with you and other family members if and when I have expertise in a relevant area (e.g. talking to Jess about grad school). Barring this, I find it inappropriate to ask my involvement particularly when it jeopardizes my relationships with other members of my family. A specific example would be when you asked me to speak with Aunt Lynn in support of a particular retirement facility/program that she was against. It was disrespectful to her, and damaging to her relationship with me. This isn't to say that I shouldn't be involved in potentially stress-inducing things when I can and should contribute (beyond my providing you with emotional support), but this was not the case here.

Likewise, even when a request for help concerns reasonable subject matter, the degree of help you expect me to provide is often unreasonable. I am glad that you bought the smartphone (a suggestion I was happy to provide), and the next time I visit I will be more than happy to dig into it with you, but your belief that I must be there in person to train you suggests an unhealthy dependence and unreasonable expectation from me.

I'm worried that you really think that you need help, and really need my help in particular, and that your recent diagnosis and your subsequent research on Asperger's only reinforces these beliefs within yourself. That you feel you're in a worse place than Grandmother is distressing, though I believe you are still more capable of caring for yourself than she. In the end though, I think most of your needs are really very strong wants. Again for the smartphone, aside from googling any specific questions, there are many people you can ask for help. Naturally it's easier just to ask me or Jess, but it's important also to realize that there are better, more appropriate sources. While we love you and certainly want to help, we cannot always do so, even if our intervention seems a less stressful alternative for you.

I am happy to help you when I reasonably can. I want to. I'm certainly not saying that you should never ask for my aid when you want it, but I believe that you shouldn't expect that I have a duty to provide it (and send me pointed messages when I can't). And when you do place those expectations on me that I can't easily fulfill, nobody comes away happy. When I do offer help to anyone, I recognize that I have a bad habit of overpromising the amount of time I can spend and the deadlines I can make. I also realize that I tend to do this more with you because I want to say yes or because I feel pressured to do so, but that doesn't excuse my failure to follow through. I know that you are especially vulnerable to this kind of failure, and I am sorry. I am working to remedy it and I will do my best not to tell you I will do things, and then not do them. In these cases, your pointed messages when I fail to deliver are wholly justified.

This being said, I am still unable to visit for the foreseeable future, and I am unwilling to commit to a potential date because even this much creates an expectation which you may perceive as a promise rather than a goal. Please know however that I do sincerely hope and want to visit.

On a final note, "You realize Jess has to be a bridesmaid" feels particularly disrespectful to Thanh and myself with your implication that we do not control our own wedding and associated decisions. While we do value your knowledge and experience with regard to the wedding (and other areas), stating "you realize X has to be done" is extremely condescending and presumptive especially when it is your opinion (I assume). I hope that this particular disagreement stems from poor word choice (the "realize" and "has to") rather than intent, because neither of us would take amiss "Have you considered Jess as a bridesmaid?" or "I think that Jess should be a bridesmaid" or some variation thereof. I was particularly surprised at your forcefulness given your own experiences with Grandmother Hope at your wedding, if I recall them correctly.

That was a less-positive point than I'd wanted to end on, but really, I just hope that this email helps to clear up some of our miscommunications. I want to be able to talk to you freely, without having to worry about meeting expectations or causing you distress. The goal is to keep talking about this so that we can better understand each other and prevent further misunderstanding. Basically I love you, I don't want to hurt you intentionally or unintentionally, but I also do not think it right or healthy (again for you, for me, and for our relationship) not to express my feelings on how we interact. But now I'm going to bed and then to lab (sigh).

Love,
-Lucas

PS: Thanh was not amused at the implication that Vietnamese cultural precepts were relevant to our discussion.


Claudia
6:36 AM (17 minutes ago)

to Lucas, Jess
Thank you for your effort at explaining your position. I am painfully surprised at its content.

I regret, truly regret, truly, truly regret, that our ethical perceptions are so far apart. I find most of what you say very hard to believe, but, as I cannot read between social lines, I must accept what you said literally.

The bedrock of my ethics is reciprocity and fulfilling contracts, including those set forth in the shared mores of the northeastern U.S., to the extent not explicitly modified by individual family traditions and documents. You do not believe in reciprocity and, to whatever extent you believe in contracts, we have no meeting of the minds to form agreement.

Accordingly, I can no longer rely upon you, and you should no longer rely upon me. To the extent you believe you have any concrete obligations toward me, I release you from them. Reciprocally, I release myself from mine to you. This does not mean that I do not still love you; it just means that I will no longer rely on you emotionally or physically; I will no longer expect you or I to fulfill the duties of son and mother as I perceive them. I will no longer expect to be able to rely on you, and you may no longer rely on me, in any regard greater than we would rely on casual acquaintances.

This makes me cry.

This also means that I will try to evaluate each of your requests at the time you make them as if an acquaintance were making them, and not put myself out to accommodate them.

This is also my notice to you that I will not be creating any powers of attorney with you, and no longer plan to sell the farm when I reach 70 if, at that time, I do not find it convenient. That was a significant burden I was undertaking so as not to burden anyone else.

Love,

No longer what I conceive of as Mom

PS: I do not have the energy, nor do I see the need under what I perceive as our new relationship, to address the individual items in your letter. This is also how I can follow the Buddhist recommendations on how to reduce "suffering" for both of us. Please be happy.


Claudia
6:48 AM (3 minutes ago)

to Lycas
I am very upset.



kraftiekortie
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08 Aug 2016, 7:24 am

As I read this, I don't feel that you've lost your son. I just feel like there's a battle going on pertaining to the obligations which adult children have with their parents. There's a battle of wills, so to speak.

I've had similar battles with my mother; she hasn't "lost" me, nor I her.

I just feel your son is rebelling against what he sees as being "obligations" being placed upon him by his mother.

I don't HAVE to buy my mother a gift--but she was hurt when I forgot one year. So hurt that I decided I cannot hurt her further, so I make sure I give her, at the very least, flowers on her birthday, Mother's Day, and Christmas.

I get the feeling that if you take the "obligation" out of it, and, instead, express your "hurt" when he doesn't do his "filial duty," that he'll come around to your way of thinking.

This is my immediate, instinctual reaction. I understand you had to lay out all the details, thus making your post a "long" one.

PS: I feel, overall, that your relationship (and this goes for everybody involved) should involve less "business/contractual" features.



yourkiddingme3
Snowy Owl
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08 Aug 2016, 7:51 am

I am unable to bear the emotional stress of hoping. When someone says they will do something, and then do not follow through, I freak out. I have finally taught myself to feel merely disappointed, not betrayed, when the someone breaking their promise is not someone I love.

I cannot bear contact with someone I love who refuses to agree to terms of engagement, or who violates those terms. So I must now avoid my son.

I lost him because of that.

I am not seeking a means to change this, for it cannot be changed unless I change, and I have spent my whole life changing to adapt to NTs. I literally cannot do more.



kraftiekortie
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08 Aug 2016, 7:57 am

I hope your son comes around.

If he is not following through with promises to do something, then he has to grow up.

I hope pride doesn't get in the way of him conceding that he's made mistakes. I hope he is able to compromise in this sense. I hope he writes you a letter stating that he will follow through on his promises from now on.

Would you accept him if he writes such a letter? I hope you would, because people make mistakes. Mistakes are, by and large, fixable in my opinion.

I still don't think that you've "lost" him permanently.

I feel that, in the "moment," you feel as most people do. Quite emotional.

I feel that "time heals wounds" frequently, though.



kraftiekortie
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08 Aug 2016, 8:18 am

I wish you the best, no matter the ultimate outcome.



yourkiddingme3
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08 Aug 2016, 8:39 am

Thank you.



AspE
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08 Aug 2016, 11:53 am

Sounds to me like you're rejecting your son because he has his own life. That's disturbing. It's not necessary to call your parents once a week or make promises about when you will visit.



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08 Aug 2016, 12:55 pm

AspE wrote:
Sounds to me like you're rejecting your son because he has his own life. That's disturbing. It's not necessary to call your parents once a week or make promises about when you will visit.


I agree with this. It was a very uncomfortable read.

It sounds like you are quite 'needy' in the sense that you expect your son to do certain things for you, despite the fact that he has grown up and has a life of his own. Are you perhaps seeing him as a child, still?

Not being obligated to do things for someone does not at all mean that you have to just be 'acquaintances'. There are certainly (huge) middle grounds. When my daughter grows and moves out she will not have to do anything for me, she won't be forced to contact me or to visit me. I hope she will find the time to do so, but more important to me is that she's happy. And, if she doesn't contact me as regularly as I'd like, she can still be sure that I love her unconditionally and will drop everything to be there for her if she needs me. My love is not dependent on how much she can 'commit' to visiting me. She owes me nothing.

This sounds like an awkward business conversation to me, rather than a conversation between mother and son. "If you won't do this for me, I don't want to know you". It's like a business contract - "We cannot agree to these terms, so we shall cease the contract that we have with your business". Very unusual.



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08 Aug 2016, 5:16 pm

I don't know how to say, but you have a very devoted son for this day, and this culture.

If you can find it within yourself, cherish what you have in him, and take into account that we are all humans with flaws... he is neither a perfect robot nor is he a slave. So, that he cannot always meet his commitments to you, as much as it seems he wishes he could from what he's written, that is only human of him. The modern day, is far more busy than it's ever been due to drastic technological advancements in global communication in the last twenty or so years... technology that was designed to make life and communications easier through efficiency, has only increased how many contacts one is expected to manage with good relations, how much work is expected to be done, and how much work must be done in a much shorter span of time by employers. It has also created further tedium of social interaction, as from many, so much more is expected to be known about their person and their plans without them having directly expressed so because they placed it somewhere on social media as if everyone is checking such things for updates on their acquaintances/friends/family every spare chance they get. It also does not seem uncommon for it to be expected, as topic of conversation, that you know of the latest news that just happened in another part of the world, a mere few hours after it has happened. The world is moving much faster than it ever has, for better and worse... I cannot even keep up with it, so I do not when/where I recognize I am unable to do so in order to best keep my heart and mind unclouded and unfettered.

If you wish him to be perfect in meeting his commitments to you, he will likely do his best not to fail them by making less and less, until it makes the most sense to make none. Consequentially, gradually over time, the relationship may deteriorate toward "out of sight, out of mind".

This, in general, is helpful to note with any type of relationship if you wish not to introduce turbulence or strain to the health of the relationship. It's not merely about them having obligations with work or social obligations that is the only reason for them to be out of contact, but also that each person also needs enough time to themselves or with their partner/spouse or with their friends to unwind from the stresses of their own busy world. So just because they're not committed to something critical at a current moment, doesn't mean they're wasting time doing nothing, and therefore it shouldn't be deemed that they could be spending such idle time with or corresponding with yourself instead. To expect so, and to express such expectations, causes strain on the individual on the receiving end and eventually frustration and bitterness unfurls because they regularly feel they don't have time to rest before being asked to give more of themselves away while also feeling conflicted for not doing so. When someone wishes to reach out, and they do, it is much more sincere and profoundly meaningful when they do so out of their own will and desire to do so.


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yourkiddingme3
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09 Aug 2016, 10:15 am

Thank you for your posts.

Let me clarify: I do not require my son to make commitments, but when he does commit, I require that he fulfill or give me a reason why he cannot. I love and trust very few people; when my trust is betrayed, I do not have the emotional strength to continue to interact with them. This is particularly so now, while I am suffering from burnout. My son refuses to recognize this limit on my strength.



yourkiddingme3
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09 Aug 2016, 10:25 am

Also, some additional context might be helpful:

My son committed to visit me for Thanksgiving last year. Then his girl friend's dog broke its leg, had surgery, and Lucas felt he could not leave the girlfriend with the recovering dog, bring the girl friend and dog, or kennel the dog.

So we agreed he'd visit over the Christmas holidays.

I forget what his excuse was for canceling then, probably still recuperation of the dog. I think the excuse for not coming at rescheduled spring break/Easter was because he had promised to dog-sit his girl-friend's sisters' dogs. Then he canceled our plans for Memorial Day and Fourth of July weekends because of a paper his lab was getting published (he's a graduate student) and delivering at a conference. When he emailed me for moral support during that conference, he said he'd be free and not busy the week of August 8, but he didn't want to drive his girl-friend's car because she had to stay in Maryland in case her sister's second baby came before its September due date. I said I'd pay for renting a car.

And then--without explanation, he cancelled again.



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09 Aug 2016, 11:14 am

I think, from what you've presented here, that you've raised a really good man. He's able to take responsibility, be clear with his boundaries, voice his needs, and respond respectfully to your needs. You really should be commended for that. Boys don't get that without guidance and you clearly raised him well.

Its really good news that he is able to create boundaries, and has a life independent from you. Not doing so is a state called co-dependence. Co-dependence is not a nice thing to have. It makes everyone miserable. So your son' having good boundaries is a good sign of his emotional health.

I hear that you think he didn't meet your expectations. And that you feel like this is breaking a contract. Lets look at the dictionary definition of "contract."

"Contract: a voluntary arrangement between two or more parties that is enforceable at law as a binding legal agreement."

Is your son going into an agreement with you voluntarily? If he is only doing so because he feels obligated, this is not voluntary. And it cannot be a contract.

Is this arrangement made between two parties? Or did you tell your son what you wanted and expected him to agree to it? If its the later, this is not a contract. Both parties have to agree before a contract is made. If it is only the wish of one party, this is not breaking the contact. It is simply non-compliance.

From what you've presented here, your son is not breaking a contract with you. Your son is breaking your expectations of him. In order for there to be a contract, both parties have to agree to it. This cannot be made based on tradition, what your parents expected of you, or what you think should happen. Its only contract if both parties agree, as consenting adults, on what should happen. If you never negotiated what your relationship should look like, with both of you as adults, you do not have a contract.

Sounds to me that you looked at a choice between accepting your adult son's love as it is, or maintaining a life long habit of dumping people when they don't meet your expectations. And you chose your habit for now. This is not a result of autism alone. There is nothing about autism that makes us disown our children over minor slights like not responding to emails quickly enough. It is an autistic traits to overreact when our expectations aren't met. But knowing this doesn't make it OK. Knowing this gives us a chance to understand that this overreaction is part of our disorder and take self-responsibility for it. That conversation might look like: "I flipped out. It was because of my autism. I'm sorry I overreacted. Will you forgive me?"

I suspect your son will be more than happy to accept it if you change your mind and decide to accept him for who he is. As I said before, its actually a really great sign that your son is willing to work on creating a relationship with you that works for both of you. That would be a real contract, because you would be creating an agreement between two people who BOTH HAVE A SAY in what that relationship is going to look like.



yourkiddingme3
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09 Aug 2016, 11:37 am

They say it's hard to ask for help when you're an Aspie. They say it's hard to ask for help when your're depressed. When you're a depressed Aspie and you finally force yourself to ask because you fear what will happen if you don't get help, and then your loved ones belittle your need for help, you are crushed. I can't handle more of that.



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09 Aug 2016, 11:57 am

yourkiddingme3 wrote:
They say it's hard to ask for help when you're an Aspie. They say it's hard to ask for help when your're depressed. When you're a depressed Aspie and you finally force yourself to ask because you fear what will happen if you don't get help, and then your loved ones belittle your need for help, you are crushed. I can't handle more of that.


Yes, you can. You are stronger than you think. Being an aspie, especially one who went undiagnosed for years, means that you have enourmous strength. You didn't always behave well towards others, but you always survived. You even managed to raise a fine son. That's an accomplishment you should be proud of!

Autism, including Aspergers is a disability. It is NOT an excuse to treat other people poorly. Being diagnosed doesn't mean that other people are obligated to compromise themselves to accommodate us. It means that we have a starting point from which to understand ourselves, and hopefully develop new coping mechanisms that work better. This thing were you dump everyone who scares you by not doing what you want them to do isn't working for you. Its causing you pain. Its time to come up with a new coping mechanism.

Edited to add: there are treatments out there for depression. Really good ones. I hope you find something that works for you. If you want some advice around that, this is a good place to ask.



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09 Aug 2016, 12:13 pm

Yourkiddingme: Do you like to read? There's a book called "Women Who Run with the Wolves." That little voice in the back of my head is telling me that you would really like this book, and it might lend insight into your situation. It covers the subject of maturing as a woman. The author, Clarrisa Pinkola Estes, is a wonderful speaker and I love her spoken word albums too. This stuff is great for people who like metaphors and spirit-talk. Its not so great for aspies who like everything literal. (We are all so different!)



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09 Aug 2016, 12:19 pm

yourkiddingme3 wrote:
...I love and trust very few people; when my trust is betrayed, I do not have the emotional strength to continue to interact with them. This is particularly so now, while I am suffering from burnout. My son refuses to recognize this limit on my strength.

I'll reiterate what somanyspoons has said, maybe you do have the strength, but have chosen to be weak on purpose. Dealing with people not visiting seems easy, at least for me. It's harder to deal with people coming over. In the end, nothing really happened.