Seriously Folks, lacking Empathy ?

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That's basically what I said. NT's talk about it like it's a one-way street, but fail to see their own lack of empathy in the process. The double empathy principle explains it more thoroughly.

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Think of this as a process. First, one has to recognize that someone is experiencing a thought or emotion. "I see you are feeling something, but I do not know what." Then there is recognizing the emotion. "I see you are having a feeling, and I recognize that feeling as 'sad'." After that can come sympathy. "I see you are feeling a certain way, I recognize that feeling as sad, and I care that you are sad." Then comes insight. "I see you are feeling emotions, I recognize that emotion as sad, I care about you being sad, and I can figure out why you are sad." Then empathy. "I see your feelings, recognize what the feeling is as sadness, care that you are sad, see your reasons for being sad, AND can relate to those reasons as something that might or would make me feel the same way. As a process, it fills out nicely. If you leave out parts, it can feel choppy.

If someone is lacking in any of those departments, it can interrupt the process as a whole. It largely relates to commonality of experience, and people who have vastly different experiences often have difficulty relating on these levels. NT's *act* like they're the golden standard, but they're just one side of a many-sided experience. It's no different than two extremely different cultures trying to interact. NT assumptions about NT "normality" get taken for granted a lot. The double empathy solution explains things much better. Many NT's say we lack empathy cos they don't actually know what empathy is either.

Had no idea , where this topic might go ...... but as reading on others peoples opinion experience.
Had one of those AHH. HAA ....moment concerning my own past . Had a budding nursing career.
After schooling and went into real life situations . Lasted less than a year .
After having worked what was suppose to be a good initial step job. At a nursing home . Could not
Make what i saw make sense . Terrible charting ... things that were expediant to the nursing home Bottom line operation . Were primary , before care of older people . Had seen death , there from old age . But more often it was abuse. Of people who literally could not defend themselves . Sometimes not dress or feed themselves . Or bathe .. All these things were adequately addressed in my training , early on .
But reality was much different . Reading a chart one day . Originally ,when the patient was admitted . As normal patient made a decision on a ( dnr) page , ( do not resucitate) . Patient declined and asked for all possible efforts to revive him. Signed that page. But as i moved forward in the chart
A dnr had been entered by the doctor and signed by the doctor.
But this poor guy was NOW listed as DNR ..At work you dont get alot of time .To look at charts.
But this gripped me. Tried to find what had changed in the chart, to explain , this .Could not find it ..
Left there . Northridge hospital next .. People , whom had there nursing light on, Were just left there..While staff was doing either nothing ,standing around . Or would excuse themselves to leave the floor . For stupid reasons . But not take care of there patients first . Lots of disparity existed if nurse was black.
So i was foolish enough to try to care for my own patients and everyone elses.. Got outta there........ too.
After 3 months .. never again to look back at nursing career.
Peeps writing here and this topic..suddenly caused me to remember .This ..was working amongst NT people ..Not a pretty picture but real . Caused me to think , too much empathy? Am not thinking so. NT culture seems likely ? This is only top of the iceberg , i have seen..these painful contrasts.

I thought "What do the letters stand for?"
I had to read it again before I worked it out! Haha.

So my filtering process decided , that since the dawn of awareness has come to you dear MountainGoat a little late ,. Of the DNR order in the chart . The end result of lack of this knowledge has deemed you , Not to be Resusitated ..
N T logic applied as needed .

Sorry poor MountainGoat ...... but please be aware that my version of dark humour goes in many odd directions .. just teasing.
Beware dear people of WP doctors bury their mistakes .?

I have a rather odd humour too. Hahah! I laugh at myself!

My take on this is that many people think narcissists are Aspies. Narcissists actually do have a complete lack of empathy. I'll bet most of the folks on that hate website we talk about periodically are actually the victims of narcissists.

The first girlfriendI found out to be narcistic. While we were dating she went out to change her character to match mine. It was strange as it was like I was dating a perfect dream girl. The wirlwind relationship blossomes and I soon found myself engaged and we were making wedding plans. Her dress was being made... Then one day out of the blue she just stopped all contact. No reasons given. Nothing. All means of contact were blocked. I was left feeling like I had done something seriously wrong. It took a month and a half to realize it was actually over as she said she just needed a short time to herself. I thought nothing of it... It all came as a shock. No arguments. No warning. No hinting. Nothing! (Mind you. I don't get hints... But the suddenness of how it ended... )

I had empathy before I even thought I didn't have it. I used to help my friends with activities and give money to some of them. Maybe empathy is just a virtue of the soul, I like to help people this is in my blood. And when I can't, I feel eternally guilty. It's an aesthetic, artificial empathy, but it's the one I can adopt and I like it.

INSERT UMUNGOUS SMILE HERE .........

Haha!

I sometimes think NTs lack empathy, but it's for people they deem jerks, or weird, or evil, or have some other reason to disqualify them from the group of people that they're concerned with having empathy for, their clique, their team, their tribe, their species. Things like themselves. I think many people just have the luxury of finding enough people similar to themselves that they can create a bubble, outside of which are all the weirdos and the like. When they ask themselves whether they have empathy or not they think of the people in their community and say yes, not homeless people or Nazis or bears, or elderly patients who are work-objects in their lives.

Yes, what he said is basically what I was gonna say.

The book that the doctor who diagnosed me with aspergers said the same thing slightly differently. The author differentiated between "empathy" and "sympathy". Empathy is sensing how others feel, while sympathy is
being concerned for others. And that aspies can have "sympathy in spades, but lack empathy". The author sliced it up so that the word "sympathy" meaning more or less what Uncommon calls "affective empathy". Empathy has to do with theory of mind. Lack of TOM is an aspie diagnostic trait.

As I understand it aspies could be said to be the opposite of sociopaths. Sociopaths know what others are feeling, but don't care, and use that knowledge to use you. While aspies care, but are too inept to be aware.

This is a curious point of veiw .. POV .

That's exactly how I understand it also — aspies as anti-sociopaths. Which is why I'm always surprised when I see what appears to be the occasional clear sociopath in an aspie context. But then aspie contexts are perhaps convenient places for them to exercise their tendencies.

You can get Aspie psychopaths (the psychopathy completely unrelated to having Asperger's), and you can get NTs who don't fit the psychopath 'criteria' but are inconsiderate jerks. All the bullies who have bullied anybody don't give a damn about their victim's feelings. In fact I find bullying one of the selfish things people can do.

They are talking about cognitive empathy. Perspective taking, understanding feelings, reading social cues which many autistic people have troubles with. Many people lack empathy for others who have never been in their situation because they cannot imagine it. They think just because they have been in hard times and got through it, they think anyone else too or because they grew up poor but ended up going to college and not being poor think being poor is a choice. They don't consider intelligence and the fact people might not be smart enough to go to college or be able to be a nurse or do what they are doing for a living and they don't consider disabilities that impact your learning and don't consider not everyone has the skill or talent. Of course they cannot imagine any of this because they have never been me. To me even NTs lack theory of mind.


Both my ex's lacked empathy. My first one couldn't understand why he shouldn't be joking with me a lot and he saw it as me trying to change who he is and mold him into a someone else. No I am only asking for accommodation and respect. What if someone liked clipping their nails and not throwing their nails away, is it asking them to change who they are if you tell them politely to throw their nails in the trash and not leave them on the table? My ex had this attitude.

Now my other ex wouldn't have done this but he still lacked empathy because he was very cold and heartless. Very judgmental of others and constantly putting people down behind their back and didn't care about peoples situations and he would often cause me stress and he would still do the same s**t. He was on the narcissist side because he had a undiagnosed personality disorder.

I have wondered if my first ex is a sociopath because of something I read in a book called sociopath next door and the guy she described in it was a moocher and lazy and didn't give a damn and it made me think of my first ex so did that mean he was a sociopath? Sociopath is also a spectrum so some of them are users because they can't feel and imagine how others would feel and they don't have remorse. Some are cheaters too so they find ways to get what they want even if it means cheating to get it like scamming people, taking advantage of others because it's gimme gimme gimme. My first ex wasn't a gimme person. He was a moocher and a bum. Some are attention seekers like that one lady who digital kidnapped this mom's kids and made a fake blog of her virtual life she created. They appeared on the Dr. Phil show and he told the mom that lady is a sociopath and has ASPD so she isn't lying when she says she can't imagine how she is feeling.