Why do bad people try to redeem themselves?

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ironpony
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18 Jul 2021, 11:02 pm

There are people I know who are bad to their kids, bad to their spouses, etc, but then they try to make up for it and try to do the right thing, and try to fix the problem. But then they relapse and are bad again, but then they try to fix the problem again, but then they screw up again, and it goes on and on.

What I really hate is why people say they are sorry, when they are not sorry, if they are just going to do it again. If you are an evil scumbag, just own it and be an evil scumbag, and stop trying to hide behind a facade of redemption BS. Why can't scumbags just admit they will always be and own it, instead of trying to give everyone around them false hope?



cyberdad
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18 Jul 2021, 11:20 pm

People aren't generally born evil. Many people who experience particular environmental/social stresses might trigger underlying tendencies to externalise and become aggressive toward their spouse/husband or kids.

I would not be surprised that they regret or feel dissonance that they are not behaving right and really want to do the right thing by their loved ones. I tend to avoid judging people like this but obviously chronic abuse of children or partners is not on and no amount of conciliation is going to redeem them.

It's hard to tell whether its a cry for help or whether its a sign of pure psychopathy (the latter can't be helped).



ironpony
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18 Jul 2021, 11:28 pm

A part of me wants to believe it's a cry for help, but then actually redeem yourself for good and stop relapsing. Can't people just pick a side and stick with it? If you want to redeem yourself, do it, but if you want to break bad, do that. But don't try to do both because that's just having your cake and eating too.



cyberdad
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19 Jul 2021, 12:10 am

ironpony wrote:
A part of me wants to believe it's a cry for help, but then actually redeem yourself for good and stop relapsing. Can't people just pick a side and stick with it?.


Often people don't know what they are signing up for when they get married. They have expectations that end up not being met and/or projections about married life that don't match with real life.

Most of us cope with stress but for a lot of people (male and female) the stress is too much. They might keep trying but they fall back to maladaptive coping strategies that keep hurting their loved ones. They might also give in to compulsions toward their kids/wife/partner that they cant control.

I do agree with you that if one partner keeps returning to behavior/conduct that hurts their loved ones then at some point the sustainability of the marriage must be considered.



ironpony
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19 Jul 2021, 1:05 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
A part of me wants to believe it's a cry for help, but then actually redeem yourself for good and stop relapsing. Can't people just pick a side and stick with it?.


Often people don't know what they are signing up for when they get married. They have expectations that end up not being met and/or projections about married life that don't match with real life.

Most of us cope with stress but for a lot of people (male and female) the stress is too much. They might keep trying but they fall back to maladaptive coping strategies that keep hurting their loved ones. They might also give in to compulsions toward their kids/wife/partner that they cant control.

I do agree with you that if one partner keeps returning to behavior/conduct that hurts their loved ones then at some point the sustainability of the marriage must be considered.


Well there is one particular person who is bad to his wife and kids, but then is supposedly sorry all the time for it. I just feel like sitting him down and telling that he should just convert to being a pure scumbag, even much worse than he is now, and absolve himsel any humanity and just stop telling himself he has a soul. Because if he does that then his loved ones can just absolve him to and no longer have to join him on is ride to hell. Tell him that he has no hope of redemption and the devil is who he is and there is no denying it.

If he supposedly loved his family he will ride to hell without them and leave them behind, and it's for their own good. I know it's really harsh to say, but would telling him that be a good idea? Is it tough love to tell him that, maybe not for him, but for his family?

I can't tell him to the opposite and get better because we've all tried telling me that before many times and it didn't work, so is telling him to the go the opposite path which would cause the family to leave him be the best idea? Tell him that to be so bad that they won't forgive him anymore, because that's the best thing for everyone?



cyberdad
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19 Jul 2021, 6:20 am

If you feel like telling this directly to his face, would help his wife and kids?

Is he your friend? At the end of the day all you can do is make your feelings known? leave the rest up to him. In Australia if you suspect he's physically or psychologically hurting his wife and children then you can report him to the police/social services, But I don't know if you want to go that far?



kraftiekortie
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19 Jul 2021, 4:57 pm

It's the cycle of abuse:

Abuse occurs.

Apology (and probably gifts, and maybe some "makeup" sex).

Abuse occurs again

Apology (and probably gifts, and maybe some "makeup" sex).

And so on.....and so on....



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19 Jul 2021, 5:25 pm

Because most people don't like to be terrible but they fail at not being terrible.

Also because NTs need social support and approval. It's hard to get those when you're Ricky Spanish.

Monsters rarely have the strength to resist the social and legal repercussions of their actions so they have to at least pretend like they've been brought to heel. Some genuinely feel remorse but don't control themselves when their emotions overpower their senses and keep making the same pattern of mistakes. Some might be a mix, since not everyone has the same moral standards about everything (someone who's mugged people with any guilt might still feel terrible about domestic abuse).


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cyberdad
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19 Jul 2021, 8:05 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Also because NTs need social support and approval. It's hard to get those when you're Ricky Spanish.


Well social approval is a form of social currency that crosses cultural and neurological barriers. Redemption in the context of the OPs friend pertain to his (the male partner) need to remain socially acceptable and not be ostracised for crossing a line.

There is considerable nuance required in thinking before simply labelling this a toxic relationship including the needs of the children. All avenues should be explored before the individuals involved part ways.



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19 Jul 2021, 8:08 pm

I've had the opposite problem. I've sincerely apologized to people I've felt that I wronged. They often take it as a form of aggression and get hostile.



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19 Jul 2021, 8:15 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Also because NTs need social support and approval. It's hard to get those when you're Ricky Spanish.


Well social approval is a form of social currency that crosses cultural and neurological barriers. Redemption in the context of the OPs friend pertain to his (the male partner) need to remain socially acceptable and not be ostracised for crossing a line.

There is considerable nuance required in thinking before simply labelling this a toxic relationship including the needs of the children. All avenues should be explored before the individuals involved part ways.


Even if you label it as toxic that doesn't mean you're dismissing it as completely incapable of being made no longer toxic.


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cyberdad
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19 Jul 2021, 8:17 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
I've had the opposite problem. I've sincerely apologized to people I've felt that I wronged. They often take it as a form of aggression and get hostile.


NTs take some time to forgive. Forgiveness is one of the hardest traits for any human. Please be patient if you are sincerely sorry and don't expect forgiveness, leave it up to them and go on with your life.



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20 Jul 2021, 8:27 am

ironpony wrote:
Why do bad people try to redeem themselves?
Because they can.


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25 Jul 2021, 6:05 am

ironpony wrote:
There are people I know who are bad to their kids, bad to their spouses, etc, but then they try to make up for it and try to do the right thing, and try to fix the problem. But then they relapse and are bad again, but then they try to fix the problem again, but then they screw up again, and it goes on and on.

What I really hate is why people say they are sorry, when they are not sorry, if they are just going to do it again. If you are an evil scumbag, just own it and be an evil scumbag, and stop trying to hide behind a facade of redemption BS. Why can't scumbags just admit they will always be and own it, instead of trying to give everyone around them false hope?


For the same reasons that autistics strive to act NT, but relapse into autistic behavior.



diagnosedafter50
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25 Jul 2021, 3:56 pm

ironpony wrote:
There are people I know who are bad to their kids, bad to their spouses, etc, but then they try to make up for it and try to do the right thing, and try to fix the problem. But then they relapse and are bad again, but then they try to fix the problem again, but then they screw up again, and it goes on and on.

What I really hate is why people say they are sorry, when they are not sorry, if they are just going to do it again. If you are an evil scumbag, just own it and be an evil scumbag, and stop trying to hide behind a facade of redemption BS. Why can't scumbags just admit they will always be and own it, instead of trying to give everyone around them false hope?

The people who repeat mistakes want to look good and tell themselves they will not do it again.
Trouble is they lack the self reflection as to why they do it and repeat ad infinitum.
Some cannot even say sorry.
Scumbags were damaged as children and do not have the capacity to own it, unless they seek out support and have a genuine need and want to redeem themselves.



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25 Jul 2021, 4:18 pm

As kraftiekortie pointed out, there's a name for that and it's called the cycle of abuse.
Inherently selfish people will make amends, often trying to gain sympathy by claiming victimhood themselves, as damage control to trick others into absolving them and make themselves free to abuse again, and again and again. And people either believe them or aren't willing to hold the abuser responsible for other reasons, therefore letting them have their way.