I'm considering leaving Christianity

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MuddRM
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03 Jan 2022, 7:24 pm

I went through this same ordeal some 40 years ago, being brought up in a church the espoused the worst qualities on both 5 point Calvinism and Arminianism. I ended up following the Lutherans. I’m not going to proselytize what type of Lutherans, since I switched from the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (which, to me, is no longer Evangelical, nor Lutheran.) to the Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (who, at least, still “preach Christ Crucified.”). I may have issues with “praise bands”, and that type of music, but I’m an “old dinosaur” to begin with. (For example, Collinsville, IL-based Lutheran Public Radio (at least on their music channel, advertises that their music library is 2000 years old. 8O Which is true when your talking about the history of music in the entire Christian Church.

Luther’s theology is quite simply boiled down to these 3 sentences: Sola fires. (By faith alone), Sola Scriptural (by Scripture alone), Sola Christus (By Christ alone.)

Now was Luther Perfect? Absolutely not! There is only one person that is perfect: Jesus Christ, God’s only son. If anything, Luther could be crude and quite boorish. You might want to check a good biography on Luther.



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03 Jan 2022, 7:49 pm

^
Yes. I was going to suggest that the OP's parents are overly influenced by the brands of Christianity based upon Calvinism. Part of Calvinism is the belief that God already picked a few folks - a billion years ago- to be saved. And if you're not one of those few then - tough.

She could stay within Christianity, but explore other sects: other Protestant sects, Catholicism, and Eastern Orthodoxy.



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03 Jan 2022, 7:53 pm

MuddRM wrote:
Luther’s theology is quite simply boiled down to these 3 sentences: Sola fires. (By faith alone), Sola Scriptural (by Scripture alone), Sola Christus (By Christ alone.)


Even though Luther was the one who introduced these three concepts, I don't think Lutheran church is a prime example of a church that holds them. If anything, its the Baptist church that identifies itself with those concepts, while Lutheran church seems to have a bit of a Catholic flavor to it.

My theory is that, due to "inertia of thought", original Luther's followers (which might or might not have included Luther himself) still held on to some Catholic ideas without noticing that they were such. But then, later on, Baptists DID notice it and so they took "sola scriptula" a step further by ridding themselves of whatever Catholic flavor that was still left.

But thats just my theory. I don't know much about Lutheran church other than the fact that it "felt" very Catholic during that one occasion I walked into their service out of curiosity.

Even though I think Baptists are the ones that embody "sola scriptula", I would still recommend Methodists to the OP. Because baptists are split on the whole Calvinist vs Arminian issue. So if OP runs into the baptists that are Calvinist, it would only make her current problem worse. I think she should go to Methodists, who are almost all Arminian, in order to heal from whatever damage the Calvinists have caused her.

By the way I am not sure where Lutherans are on this spectrum.



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03 Jan 2022, 8:09 pm

theprisoner wrote:
I'm sorry to inform you, but it sounds like you're the victim of socio-cultural thought pattern conditioning (a.k.a brainwashing.) You might want to look into that.


This is like saying "water is wet".

Every human being who ever lived was the product of the particular culture and society that existed at the time and place that they lived in. So all you have accomplished in this post is to inform her that she is a human being.

My guess is that she already knew THAT. :lol:



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03 Jan 2022, 8:50 pm

Consider your parents might be going through their own crises of understanding. Politics and religious issues.
Some of this pressure may have rubbed off on you giving you reason to second guess your possible place in the
Religious world. And being autistic sometimes , a persons level of understanding is more advanced than others her own age. So naturally you might expect to feel something about the Lord choosing you . It is what you were taught.
Perhaps it is not your time to understand or feel that yet. But in the mean time , you might expand your entire view of all religion by gaining a little more life experience. You seem to have begun to think for yourself, which is very important for personal growth. There is no hurry to make decisions yet concerning your beliefs . Life probably has much to reveal to you still. Best wishes on your ongoing time and opportunity to learn . :)


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03 Jan 2022, 9:02 pm

OP, you're not at all alone in experiencing feelings of being disconnected from God or having doubts. It's natural and many, if not most, 'religious people' go through this, too.

I wonder if it might be helpful for you to look up research that psychologists and other researchers in human development have done about faith formation. James Fowler (who I think may have been a professor and Methodist theologian, but don't quote me on that) had written about basic stages that people typically go through as their faith develops. It can be very tough to hit a ceiling at a particular stage and some people may lose faith as a result. But others find they come out on the other side with a stronger faith and deeper sense of meaning and connection as a result of the struggle. I guess my point is that it might be helpful to think of this as one stage in a process or journey that's going to continue for the rest of your life, rather than a hard and fast ending.

Also, as others have mentioned, Christianity is definitely not a monolith and you may wind up finding that just because you don't agree with certain parts of your parents' theology, you may not have to walk away from Christianity altogether.

That said, I know it can be very unsettling and frightening to wrestle with these types of questions, especially when you had found belief in God to be a comfort in the past and you are growing up in an environment like you are. Personally, I came from a pretty secular family and can tell you dark nights of the soul are hard for all of us, though.

Hope you have people you trust who you can talk to about these struggles as you process through them, but if you don't and need to post here for that, I would definitely stick to posting here instead of the PPR forum. Hope also that you can try to keep an open mind or heart as to where this struggle might lead.



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03 Jan 2022, 11:48 pm

_cora_ wrote:
I'm sorry if I should have posted this in religion/politics instead.
I seriously need some guidance, but I can't talk to my parents about this.
...
I know I'm probably too young to be making decisions like this, but I know deep down that I'm not loved and that I shouldn't stay.
What should I do? Am I ridiculous for thinking this?


I am so sorry that your home and religion are not helping you feel loved.

I agree that perhaps a different practice of Christianity might help... but if you feel you cannot talk with your parents about your feelings of self doubt, then you may need to wait until you're older and independent to seek out a change.

My limited personal exposure to right wing + political-minded friends & family these days suggests to me... that they are scared--like many people--in these difficult and highly unusual times.

Can you at least talk with your parents about your feelings in any way? Perhaps not your mindset of leaving Christianity, but perhaps just some of your feelings that are pushing you away from your parents? Can you ask them about topics or stories--unrelated to politics, religion, or things that upset them--that you may have enjoyed from the past?

If not, then does your family share hugs? Walks outside together? Any exercise or sports or physical activities together? (Close proximity, exercise, and activities all help in bonding.)

Re-connecting with your parents on some level, even in a minor but meaningful way, is important in any case, if it helps.

I would hope, though, suggest that you might still find someone in your church who represents a softer, more open form of Christianity and fellowship. If you are still going to church in person, have you explored any of the volunteer opportunities like watching little babies/toddlers in the nursery, being in the choir, maybe a shawl ministry (knitting blankets for people in need), or some "quiet" ministry where you mind luckily find one or two non-political, friendly older (female) church members to help you as a trusted older adult?

Note: I would highly suggest you talk with either professional counseling... or a sincere (less political) minister or faith teacher at your church... or a school counselor... or at least some trusted adult or older sibling...

I honor auntblabby's assertion about respecting yourself:
auntblabby wrote:
Cora, you've got to honor the person standing in front of the mirror every day.
...

As an adolescent, you still have a lot of forming of your values to go through. Try to find the good and helpful around you, where you can. Try to leave alone what what's not kind, helpful, and peace inducing to you.



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04 Jan 2022, 12:04 am

Hear, hear:

Jakki wrote:
Consider your parents might be going through their own crises of understanding. Politics and religious issues.
Some of this pressure may have rubbed off on you giving you reason to second guess your possible place in the
Religious world. And being autistic sometimes , a persons level of understanding is more advanced than others her own age. So naturally you might expect to feel something about the Lord choosing you . It is what you were taught.
Perhaps it is not your time to understand or feel that yet. But in the mean time , you might expand your entire view of all religion by gaining a little more life experience. You seem to have begun to think for yourself, which is very important for personal growth. There is no hurry to make decisions yet concerning your beliefs . Life probably has much to reveal to you still. Best wishes on your ongoing time and opportunity to learn . :)


HeroOfHyrule wrote:
...I also think that if you don't believe you are getting anything out of Christianity that it's fine to consider leaving it. I actually would encourage you, though, to maybe try to expand your knowledge of it beyond what your parents have taught you, since it sounds like you still do believe in God, just that you possibly don't feel like you fit your parents personal understanding of Christianity and of being accepted by him.

It seems like to me that people often have different opinions about God, his love for people, etc., so maybe if you talked to more Christians and/or looked up some different resources about the things that confuse/worry you, you could find an explanation that makes more sense to you + makes you feel more validated as a Christian.


blueroses wrote:
OP, you're not at all alone in experiencing feelings of being disconnected from God or having doubts. It's natural and many, if not most, 'religious people' go through this, too.
...
Hope you have people you trust who you can talk to about these struggles as you process through them, but if you don't and need to post here for that, I would definitely stick to posting here instead of the PPR forum. Hope also that you can try to keep an open mind or heart as to where this struggle might lead.



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04 Jan 2022, 6:22 am

I'm so sorry you feel like that cora. I'm religious (not christian though) and deal with similar feelings about God so it makes me sad you are dealing with it. I have mental illness though so that's a big part of it.

My advice to you, since you have found comfort in religion, is accept that as an autistic person your relationship to God is not going to be like other peoples. I can never have that feeling of being 100% sure that others can have, if they do have it. If I were you I'd look into other ways of thinking about god. I personally like to find out about other sects, philosophies and religions and continue with what I most agree with.

Also everything is a journey. I stopped being practising when I was around your age as I didn't really know what I believed and had religious trauma from religious people that stressed the anger of God (not my parents though). Don't ever feel stuck because of your current feelings and understand you will and can change as time passes. I eventually became practising again but I don't really follow anyone else's way of practising anymore, just my understanding. I also still have questions and that is OK. If you can never be sure don't beat yourself up about it :)

It can be so hard to think that God doesn't like you, so as someone who has felt that way as long as I can remember, my heart really goes out to you.



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04 Jan 2022, 6:59 am

I’m so sorry you are feeling, as I hear it, alone and possibly abandoned by a Source who used to provide you with comfort.

My personal opinion is that God doesn’t really care which religion you choose or not. Some people are seekers, and you may be one of those. The point…from my point of view…is to take steps, forward or back, that lead you to a greater connection to God, however you may interpret him or her.

Considering your questions now, you are already taking those steps. Good for you. You are already on your spiritual journey.

In regards to not feeling loved by God, it could be (again my personal opinion) this inability to feel loved could arise from autism. We have trouble identifying emotions and feelings in ourselves and others. So what you are feeling now, being unloved by God, could just be a symptom of autism.

PS: your parents have no authority to determine who God “saves”. Perhaps just drop religion as a topic of conversation.

Above all, pay attention to what Aunt Blabby had to say.


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04 Jan 2022, 11:52 am

Thank you all for your replies. My parents don't go to church, as they don't fit in anywhere, and I'm homeschooled, so I only have a few people I can talk to. I feel pretty clueless of what to do next, you all have some good suggestions, but I can't really do much right now, and I hardly ever look at religious things online as they don't really seem to help and are either too aggressive or overly vague. I guess I could read my Bible, but I don't feel motivated to read anything without pictures, and the Bible makes me feel bad about myself and brings back bad memories.
I'm trying to make my own path, as what I was somewhat forced into when I was little doesn't bring much comfort to me. I've actually felt this way ever since I was "saved", which never changed anything or felt real to me.
It's hard to make my own path, though, when my parents are yelling about how certain people they don't like aren't real Christians and that God doesn't love them and is angry at them because they interpret things differently or follow a less strict path. My sister is the opposite, I would never dare talk about religion around her because she would tell me I was crazy or pressure me to not join any religion to ever exist.
I also feel like it's selfish to only accept things that I like, because most of what I like isn't really that religious and is more like vague inspirational quotes, that doesn't say bad things about anyone and encourages people to accept their current situation because things will turn out how they should in the end, which is comforting to me.
It seems like what my brain naturally wants to do is incorporate a spiritual aspect to my existing special interests, which my sister doesn't really like to hear me talk about, but since I currently have my own universe I can add whatever kind of thing like that I want to it, and tell her it's just fictional.



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04 Jan 2022, 1:12 pm

you sound very much like you have a good understanding of your situation . i hope you make progress with your journey to find a path that will be best for you . i have found WP a good place
to get other opinions that can be of help. :D


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04 Jan 2022, 1:22 pm

Have you tried any on-line churches?  I recommend upbeat mainstream churches that match your beliefs.



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04 Jan 2022, 1:25 pm

Studying the bible in depth made me realise that the Christian religion glosses over a lot of what is actually written in there.
As Alan Watts said, "I'm damned if I can find and any good news in it."


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04 Jan 2022, 1:28 pm

Alan Watts, the zen teacher? I'm familiar with him. He was a alcoholic wasn't he. Disseminated eastern thought to the west in the 50's, pioneering influence on the 60's counterculture.


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04 Jan 2022, 1:29 pm

Raleigh wrote:
Studying the bible in depth made me realise that the Christian religion glosses over a lot of what is actually written in there.  As Alan Watts said, "I'm damned if I can find and any good news in it."
If you stick only to what Jesus said -- especially the Sermon On The Mount* -- you cannot go wrong.

(*Matthew 5:1 to 7:28)