I feel like a failure of an adult

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SkinnyElephant
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24 Sep 2022, 10:50 am

funeralxempire wrote:

All I'm trying to draw attention to is that won't and can't both have a fuzzy grey area between them, as well as that one can't evaluate can't vs. won't based on a quick glance.

It's easy to dismiss invisible disabilities because they're invisible but that doesn't make it right.


Good point about the invisible thing. Having an invisible disability, even my own family sometimes forgets I'm different (and belittles me for not being able to reach the same milestones as normies)

Don't even get me started on the outside world judging me. Most of the outside world thinks I'm, at worst, only mildly strange (as opposed to being on the spectrum). They see no reason for me to partially rely on parents at my age.

When one has Down syndrome (for example), however, the outside world totally sympathizes (and doesn't expect you to reach adult milestones)



SkinnyElephant
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24 Sep 2022, 10:57 am

GadgetGuru wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
A lot of us on the spectrum reach traditional "adult" milestones later than usual (or never). Does anyone else feel like a failure? Feel free to comment/share your story.

I think I could be objectively described, at age 53, as a failure, measured by any sort of conventional metrics.

I started off with essentially every innate advantage that one can have in life:

-Excellent physical health
-Very tall (99.9th percentile) and very physically attractive (I have no objective measure for this, but am stating this based on what seems like the consensus opinion of others).
-Very high native intelligence (About 99.99th percentile, when young, and still in the recently-measured vicinity of 99th percentile, despite what feels like a catastrophic loss of mental capacity)
-No learning disabilities.
-Being a Heterosexual Caucasian male in an environment where those are all natural advantages.
-Born into a time and place that did not present any significant challenges (living in an economically functional country and not at war (at home)).
-Have not developed any serious substance addictions, though I do use too much Kratom, now, to cope with my declining state of mind.
-Born into a reasonably stable, supportive family, with enough resources to never be in "need", and rarely even in "want".
-Having access to the totality of human knowledge and experience, in the form of the communication medium upon which we are all conversing at the moment.

As a measure of my “failure”, here are a few samples:

-Although I tested extremely well in school, I could never quite cope with the whole situation, and dropped out in 9th grade, after years of declining performance and attendance.
-Minimal post-high-school conventional education (trade school diploma, and a few IT college courses).
-I never made the slightest attempt at dating until age 30, with minimal “success” since then, currently in my 4th, and very likely last relationship (It has been failing gradually for many years).
-Minimal employment, with multiple failures early on to persist more than a few week or months. I eventually had minor success for a few years, in a job that was only tolerable because it involved a special interest. My only current non-Dole source of income is “flipping” things on eBay and other online sales sites.
-After being misdiagnosed “bipolar” at age 30, and going through a decade of having no success with psych meds to treat it, I ended up locked in a Mental Ward for three weeks, due to suicidal ideation as a result of a bad reaction to my then-current psych meds, combined with being in a relationship that was far too complicated for an undiagnosed 40-year-old autistic dude to deal with.
-“temporarily” living in a $900 motorhome, in a tiny town in the High Desert of Northern Nevada, with no clear idea of my near or long-term future.
-Considering that I have not been able to grasp onto a realistic-seeming future that seems worth working toward, I am gradually oozing toward what seems like an inevitable self-imposed termination of this meager experiment in consciousness.

Darron


I can relate to you in many ways.

I am also:

-In good shape
-Good looks
-Highly intelligent (in 5th grade, I was reading at an 11th grade level)
-Straight white man
-No drug addictions, no alcoholism, not even tobacco
-Come from a monied family

Society totally expects someone like me to become the next JFK or Mitt Romney. Yet here I am, not even making enough money to be fully functional.

Footnote: To expand upon the part about how I come from a monied white family, I personally disagree being white (or even being white and wealthy) makes you privileged. The idea that we're somehow privileged is a major reason a lot of white men on the spectrum are Republicans. When you're on the spectrum, you feel anything but privileged. So why on earth would we vote for the party that smears us as privileged?



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24 Sep 2022, 11:04 am

SkinnyElephant wrote:
I personally disagree being white (or even being white and wealthy) makes you privileged. The idea that we're somehow privileged is a major reason a lot of white men on the spectrum are Republicans. When you're on the spectrum, you feel anything but privileged. So why on earth would we vote for the party that smears us as privileged?

I should note that I don't have strong feelings about the "straight white male" privilege, but it has become such a widely accepted idea, that I noted it for clarity, given that many would judge my "innate potential" based on these attributes, as well as the others I listed.

Politically, I decided very early in life that I was Libertarian, but no longer give a s**t about the subject of politics, except to the extent that I try to stay aware of any imminent threats to my personal liberty, coming from the political realm.

Darron


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SkinnyElephant
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24 Sep 2022, 11:08 am

GadgetGuru wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
I personally disagree being white (or even being white and wealthy) makes you privileged. The idea that we're somehow privileged is a major reason a lot of white men on the spectrum are Republicans. When you're on the spectrum, you feel anything but privileged. So why on earth would we vote for the party that smears us as privileged?

I should note that I don't have strong feelings about the "straight white male" privilege, but it has become such a widely accepted idea, that I noted it for clarity, given that many would judge my "innate potential" based on these attributes, as well as the others I listed.

Politically, I decided very early in life that I was Libertarian, but no longer give a s**t about the subject of politics, except to the extent that I try to stay aware of any imminent threats to my personal liberty, coming from the political realm.

Darron


Ok, so we're on the same page. Even if you're a Libertarian (and I'm a Republican), we both don't buy into the privilege mantra.

Like you, I included the thing about being a straight white man on my list of "advantages" only because society views it as an advantage.



funeralxempire
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24 Sep 2022, 1:01 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:
GadgetGuru wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
I personally disagree being white (or even being white and wealthy) makes you privileged. The idea that we're somehow privileged is a major reason a lot of white men on the spectrum are Republicans. When you're on the spectrum, you feel anything but privileged. So why on earth would we vote for the party that smears us as privileged?

I should note that I don't have strong feelings about the "straight white male" privilege, but it has become such a widely accepted idea, that I noted it for clarity, given that many would judge my "innate potential" based on these attributes, as well as the others I listed.

Politically, I decided very early in life that I was Libertarian, but no longer give a s**t about the subject of politics, except to the extent that I try to stay aware of any imminent threats to my personal liberty, coming from the political realm.

Darron


Ok, so we're on the same page. Even if you're a Libertarian (and I'm a Republican), we both don't buy into the privilege mantra.

Like you, I included the thing about being a straight white man on my list of "advantages" only because society views it as an advantage.


How often does it cause more problems than it assists with? :chin:

Privilege is a concept that's often discussed as a far more (forgive the pun) black and white manner than it could possibly ever work in real life. It rarely represents an insurmountable advantage, but it often means reduced scrutiny and fewer doors slammed in your face.


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funeralxempire
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24 Sep 2022, 1:05 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

All I'm trying to draw attention to is that won't and can't both have a fuzzy grey area between them, as well as that one can't evaluate can't vs. won't based on a quick glance.

It's easy to dismiss invisible disabilities because they're invisible but that doesn't make it right.


Good point about the invisible thing. Having an invisible disability, even my own family sometimes forgets I'm different (and belittles me for not being able to reach the same milestones as normies)

Don't even get me started on the outside world judging me. Most of the outside world thinks I'm, at worst, only mildly strange (as opposed to being on the spectrum). They see no reason for me to partially rely on parents at my age.

When one has Down syndrome (for example), however, the outside world totally sympathizes (and doesn't expect you to reach adult milestones)


It's frustrating because without disclosing you're judged one way, but to resolve that problem you need to share information that's literally none of the judgmental party's business and no matter how much they might back-peddle they've already committed the injury against you.


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24 Sep 2022, 1:17 pm

I've never actually felt like a failure. I just used to always run on autopilot without even thinking about whether I was a success or a failure.

One day someone actually said to me (purely by surprise and out of the blue): babybird, you've made a success of yourself.

I didn't even understand what they meant until I sat back and I actually took stock of what I had. And it was true. I have succeeded where others had told me that I would actually amount to nothing. And I did it without even realising it.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a millionaire and I don't have a fancy car or anything like that but what I have got I've worked hard for and I've had to fight through hard times to get it.

I think that makes me successful but it took someone else to make me aware of that.


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SkinnyElephant
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24 Sep 2022, 1:53 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
GadgetGuru wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
I personally disagree being white (or even being white and wealthy) makes you privileged. The idea that we're somehow privileged is a major reason a lot of white men on the spectrum are Republicans. When you're on the spectrum, you feel anything but privileged. So why on earth would we vote for the party that smears us as privileged?

I should note that I don't have strong feelings about the "straight white male" privilege, but it has become such a widely accepted idea, that I noted it for clarity, given that many would judge my "innate potential" based on these attributes, as well as the others I listed.

Politically, I decided very early in life that I was Libertarian, but no longer give a s**t about the subject of politics, except to the extent that I try to stay aware of any imminent threats to my personal liberty, coming from the political realm.

Darron


Ok, so we're on the same page. Even if you're a Libertarian (and I'm a Republican), we both don't buy into the privilege mantra.

Like you, I included the thing about being a straight white man on my list of "advantages" only because society views it as an advantage.


How often does it cause more problems than it assists with? :chin:

Privilege is a concept that's often discussed as a far more (forgive the pun) black and white manner than it could possibly ever work in real life. It rarely represents an insurmountable advantage, but it often means reduced scrutiny and fewer doors slammed in your face.


While I've struggled/faced discrimination due to being on the spectrum, the absolute worst treatment I've ever been subjected to has been being singled out and terrorized for being white.

By definition, being singled out and terrorized for being white couldn't happen if I were any other race.

When the media/schools say things like "It''s impossible to be racist against against whites" or "Whites are oppressors. Whites are responsible for any struggle minorities face," what do you think the end result will be? Obviously minorities will end up feeling justified in hating us (and will be convinced their hatred of us doesn't even count as racism)



Last edited by SkinnyElephant on 24 Sep 2022, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SkinnyElephant
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24 Sep 2022, 1:55 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

All I'm trying to draw attention to is that won't and can't both have a fuzzy grey area between them, as well as that one can't evaluate can't vs. won't based on a quick glance.

It's easy to dismiss invisible disabilities because they're invisible but that doesn't make it right.


Good point about the invisible thing. Having an invisible disability, even my own family sometimes forgets I'm different (and belittles me for not being able to reach the same milestones as normies)

Don't even get me started on the outside world judging me. Most of the outside world thinks I'm, at worst, only mildly strange (as opposed to being on the spectrum). They see no reason for me to partially rely on parents at my age.

When one has Down syndrome (for example), however, the outside world totally sympathizes (and doesn't expect you to reach adult milestones)


It's frustrating because without disclosing you're judged one way, but to resolve that problem you need to share information that's literally none of the judgmental party's business and no matter how much they might back-peddle they've already committed the injury against you.


Also, even if you disclose, the judgmental party will still judge you. Even if being on the spectrum explains our behavior, there's still a stigma to being on the spectrum.



funeralxempire
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24 Sep 2022, 2:35 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:
While I've struggled/faced discrimination due to being on the spectrum, the absolute worst treatment I've ever been subjected to has been being singled out and terrorized for being white.

By definition, being singled out and terrorized for being white couldn't happen if I were any other race.

When the media/schools say things like "It''s impossible to be racist against against whites" or "Whites are oppressors. Whites are responsible for any struggle minorities face," what do you think the end result will be? Obviously minorities will end up feeling justified in hating us (and will be convinced their hatred of us doesn't even count as racism)


Since I pass as white, I'm in the same boat when it comes to where any racial prejudice I've ever faced has come from, in terms of motive. That said, I don't think people arguing that racism isn't the correct term to describe anti-white prejudices amounts to hate. I think you're engaging in a common slippery-slope argument that's baseless.

I don't need to hate white people to recognize that prejudices and the trauma resulting from colonialism continue to harm some of my loved ones, with a significant amount being because of judgments tied to ethnic phenotype.

How can we address trauma if we're not allowed to openly discuss it just because some portion of white people will feel guilty?

Attempts to discuss those harms or how to address them end up being framed as hate, but that's simply not honest. Seeking justice to address harms inflicted isn't hate, isn't motivated by hate and doesn't motivate hate.

This is hate.


SkinnyElephant wrote:
Also, even if you disclose, the judgmental party will still judge you. Even if being on the spectrum explains our behavior, there's still a stigma to being on the spectrum.


Definitely, if the disability is invisible and carries a stigma, you're damned either way.


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SkinnyElephant
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25 Sep 2022, 10:30 am

funeralxempire wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
While I've struggled/faced discrimination due to being on the spectrum, the absolute worst treatment I've ever been subjected to has been being singled out and terrorized for being white.

By definition, being singled out and terrorized for being white couldn't happen if I were any other race.

When the media/schools say things like "It''s impossible to be racist against against whites" or "Whites are oppressors. Whites are responsible for any struggle minorities face," what do you think the end result will be? Obviously minorities will end up feeling justified in hating us (and will be convinced their hatred of us doesn't even count as racism)


Since I pass as white, I'm in the same boat when it comes to where any racial prejudice I've ever faced has come from, in terms of motive. That said, I don't think people arguing that racism isn't the correct term to describe anti-white prejudices amounts to hate. I think you're engaging in a common slippery-slope argument that's baseless.

I don't need to hate white people to recognize that prejudices and the trauma resulting from colonialism continue to harm some of my loved ones, with a significant amount being because of judgments tied to ethnic phenotype.

How can we address trauma if we're not allowed to openly discuss it just because some portion of white people will feel guilty?

Attempts to discuss those harms or how to address them end up being framed as hate, but that's simply not honest. Seeking justice to address harms inflicted isn't hate, isn't motivated by hate and doesn't motivate hate.

This is hate.


SkinnyElephant wrote:
Also, even if you disclose, the judgmental party will still judge you. Even if being on the spectrum explains our behavior, there's still a stigma to being on the spectrum.


Definitely, if the disability is invisible and carries a stigma, you're damned either way.


If you think Republicans' complaint is that whites will end up feeling guilty, you're misinterpreting. Our complaint is that minorities will end up brutalizing/murdering us if they're taught whites are oppressors. And we don't simply think whites will get brutalized/murdered; it already has happened.

You admitted you've faced racism for being white-passing. I'd think you would have more sympathy for the racism we face.

As for the story you linked, the murder of the First Nations victim is inexcusable. However, based on the article, there's no evidence race had anything to do with the murder. If anything, maybe he thought she was a prostitute (the article said the murderer was looking to target prostitutes)?

When a minority dies at the hands of a white person, the general public automatically insists race is the only possible explanation for the death, even in the absence of any racial evidence. When a white victim dies at the hands of a minority, however, the general public insists race had nothing to do with the death, even if there's abundant evidence of racial bias (on the murderer's part). The double standard is another thing Republicans are tired of.



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25 Sep 2022, 11:47 am

SkinnyElephant wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
The dictionary definition of "failure" says nothing about salary or driving

Anyone could define "failure" as anything

Do you label anyone that doesn't drive a "failure"? There are many reasons why someone might not drive a car. For example, epilepsy.

What is so great about driving anyways?

Plenty of people don't have children or spouses, especially recently. Do you find them "failures"?

What is so great about children anyways.

Plenty of people here no job or earn minimum wage.


At one point, I looked into joining a dating service (an acquaintance worked for the dating service and encouraged me to join).

When I went to meet with the director of the dating service, everything went downhill. Once the director found out I don't own a car, her attitude was "How dare a car-less man try to pollute our dating service"

The director also treated me like I was ignorant of how dating works. She said "When you go on a date, you pick the woman up in your car"

How stupid. What type of woman gets into a car with a stranger on a first date anyway?


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Not everyone that goes on dates , drives a car

You could arrange to meet your date in a public spot. For example, McDonald's.

Furthermore, that way your date doesn't know your address. If they know your address they could burn your house down or take out revenge on you.

In the past fifteen years, I have only written my addresses on forms. "Friends", enemies and frenemies have not been to my house before. Even though I have gone to their house

It is dangerous to get in a strangers car, but plenty of people do it all the time. For example, day laborers at home Depot often get into strangers cars



SkinnyElephant
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25 Sep 2022, 1:09 pm

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
The dictionary definition of "failure" says nothing about salary or driving

Anyone could define "failure" as anything

Do you label anyone that doesn't drive a "failure"? There are many reasons why someone might not drive a car. For example, epilepsy.

What is so great about driving anyways?

Plenty of people don't have children or spouses, especially recently. Do you find them "failures"?

What is so great about children anyways.

Plenty of people here no job or earn minimum wage.


At one point, I looked into joining a dating service (an acquaintance worked for the dating service and encouraged me to join).

When I went to meet with the director of the dating service, everything went downhill. Once the director found out I don't own a car, her attitude was "How dare a car-less man try to pollute our dating service"

The director also treated me like I was ignorant of how dating works. She said "When you go on a date, you pick the woman up in your car"

How stupid. What type of woman gets into a car with a stranger on a first date anyway?


__________________________

Match dot com

Not everyone that goes on dates , drives a car

You could arrange to meet your date in a public spot. For example, McDonald's.

Furthermore, that way your date doesn't know your address. If they know your address they could burn your house down or take out revenge on you.

In the past fifteen years, I have only written my addresses on forms. "Friends", enemies and frenemies have not been to my house before. Even though I have gone to their house

It is dangerous to get in a strangers car, but plenty of people do it all the time. For example, day laborers at home Depot often get into strangers cars


This was several years ago when I attempted to join the dating service. I've lost interest in dating since then anyway. I was only mentioning the dating service to illustrate an example of being treated like a failure (for not driving).

However, I've dated in the past. Even when I had a car, not once did I pick the other party up at home for a first date. I really don't know why the director of that dating service acted like it's the norm to pick the other party up on a first date (especially when it's a stranger, which, if you met through a dating service, it would be a stranger)

And yeah, when day laborers get into a stranger's car, it's risky for both parties.



funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2022, 3:20 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
While I've struggled/faced discrimination due to being on the spectrum, the absolute worst treatment I've ever been subjected to has been being singled out and terrorized for being white.

By definition, being singled out and terrorized for being white couldn't happen if I were any other race.

When the media/schools say things like "It''s impossible to be racist against against whites" or "Whites are oppressors. Whites are responsible for any struggle minorities face," what do you think the end result will be? Obviously minorities will end up feeling justified in hating us (and will be convinced their hatred of us doesn't even count as racism)


Since I pass as white, I'm in the same boat when it comes to where any racial prejudice I've ever faced has come from, in terms of motive. That said, I don't think people arguing that racism isn't the correct term to describe anti-white prejudices amounts to hate. I think you're engaging in a common slippery-slope argument that's baseless.

I don't need to hate white people to recognize that prejudices and the trauma resulting from colonialism continue to harm some of my loved ones, with a significant amount being because of judgments tied to ethnic phenotype.

How can we address trauma if we're not allowed to openly discuss it just because some portion of white people will feel guilty?

Attempts to discuss those harms or how to address them end up being framed as hate, but that's simply not honest. Seeking justice to address harms inflicted isn't hate, isn't motivated by hate and doesn't motivate hate.

This is hate.


SkinnyElephant wrote:
Also, even if you disclose, the judgmental party will still judge you. Even if being on the spectrum explains our behavior, there's still a stigma to being on the spectrum.


Definitely, if the disability is invisible and carries a stigma, you're damned either way.


If you think Republicans' complaint is that whites will end up feeling guilty, you're misinterpreting. Our complaint is that minorities will end up brutalizing/murdering us if they're taught whites are oppressors. And we don't simply think whites will get brutalized/murdered; it already has happened.

You admitted you've faced racism for being white-passing. I'd think you would have more sympathy for the racism we face.

As for the story you linked, the murder of the First Nations victim is inexcusable. However, based on the article, there's no evidence race had anything to do with the murder. If anything, maybe he thought she was a prostitute (the article said the murderer was looking to target prostitutes)?

When a minority dies at the hands of a white person, the general public automatically insists race is the only possible explanation for the death, even in the absence of any racial evidence. When a white victim dies at the hands of a minority, however, the general public insists race had nothing to do with the death, even if there's abundant evidence of racial bias (on the murderer's part). The double standard is another thing Republicans are tired of.


a) I disagree that whites face significant discrimination based on my own experiences. It's hard to be sympathetic when your experience suggests that there's no actual issue to sympathize with. If it becomes a significant issue it should be treated as just as important as other bias motivated crimes. We're not at that point and most of the claims that we're almost there are just fear-mongering, so colour me unconvinced.

b) Is it better to insist that one stereotyped the FN woman as a sex worker before assaulting her? That's just an admission that the attack views FN women as likely sex workers. Given how that sort of stereotyping is common towards FN women it's not a defence in the slightest, it's just further evidence of the perp's racial biases.

I'm not convinced the double-standard you claim to exist does but I understand how pretending like it exists is good politics for the GOP. It draws in angry people who feel other people's success is somehow at the cost of their own ability to succeed.

I don't mean to completely hijack your thread, especially when it's a topic that's done over and over again here; but I've heard the claims you're attempting to make before and they simply don't hold water under scrutiny but they get repeated regardless. It's just ethno-chauvinism pretending to be a set of legitimate grievances.


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