Seriously, why is there so much Misogyny on WrongPlanet?!

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Pepe
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27 Mar 2023, 5:37 pm

rse92 wrote:

I think a lot of what some people find to be misogyny here is not exactly that. It exists here, but I've also seen the term used to try to shut down, or shut up, honest debate.

Yep, it is a big problem generally in the universe.

Pepe
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27 Mar 2023, 5:45 pm

cyberdad wrote:

As somebody who voluntarily chosen not to post in L&D. I see there is a risk to not allow people to share their emotions/thoughts as with stifling other forms of thinking by banning or removing it

I myself don't think in a way that can be described as misogynistic but in recounting my 20 year old self and how it transformed it may provide an important role model for young men here on WP a life lesson not to go through what I went through. Perhaps the choice of words might be inflammatory (I accept that) but why is it wrong to share authentic experiences?

WP tends to be PC more than most NT websites.
"Nature of the beast."

And on AustismForums, you can't talk politics at all unless it is SPECIFICALLY related to autism.

I'd prefer freer discussions generally, but it is what it is.

Pepe
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27 Mar 2023, 5:49 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Ideally I think all the "I can't get a date with a woman" threads should be combined into one area

As someone who would be affected by this potential change, I don't like this idea at all. Putting our threads behind an extra subfolder can only decrease their visibility. Why?

It's kind of otherising, as if people are sick of hearing our issues so we're relegated to a niche side-pocket of the site that people are less likely click on

Most threads in L&D consist of recurring themes anyway. I don't see why the "I can't get a girlfriend" threads are different enough to warrant a different location.

I don't see why it is so hard to simply skip over posts, threads, and ppl "you" don't like.
I do it all the time.
It ain't rocket surgery for me.

Pepe
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27 Mar 2023, 5:58 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

Folks have said this before on this thread, but it bears repeating: 99 percent of the misogyny on WP is in that one forum:the Loath and hating forum.

I doubt that you see much of it outside of there.

So...just dont go there. I avoid it.

This is hard for some ppl to do for some reason.

Fnord
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27 Mar 2023, 6:07 pm

rse92 wrote:

I think a lot of what some people find to be misogyny here is not exactly that. It exists here, but I've also seen the term used to try to shut down, or shut up, honest debate.

[opinion=mine]

Dear Moderators & Members,

Misogyny and misandry should have clear and objective definitions. Basing either solely on the subjective opinions of their alleged victims would encourage abuse of the terms, resulting in innocent people receiving warnings and bans. Examples of what misandry/misogyny are not:

• Pointing out factual errors or fallacious reasoning in someone's claims is neither misogyny nor misandry.

• Disagreeing in whole or in part with someone's opinions is neither misogyny nor misandry.

• Asking for more details in support of a claim is neither misogyny nor misandry.

• Reporting expressions of sexist contempt or hatred is neither misogyny nor misandry.

I suggest that the moderators accept definitions of misandry/misogyny that originated from a reliable, objective, and expert source outside WrongPlanet. For example, the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines misogyny as "hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women" and misandry as "hatred of men". Generally speaking, expressing both these forms of sexism involve hatred, contempt, and prejudice.

Dislike for a person happens. But if the reason for disliking a person is their designated sex or their gender identity, and the dislike is expressed through lies, insults, condescension, gaslighting, or other forms of documentable abuse, then the person expressing those actions is clearly in the wrong and should be reported to the mods (whom I hope would act swiftly and decisively to correct the problem).

Thank you.

[/opinion]

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Last edited by Fnord on 27 Mar 2023, 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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27 Mar 2023, 6:13 pm

And So It Goes wrote:

KitLily wrote:

I think it's just a reflection of life these days. Or a reflection of how life has always been, but just on the internet.

Pretty much this. Sadly, misogyny has always been deeply rooted in culture and is something that probably won't go away any time soon.

If ppl make fools of themselves, only other fools will be impressed with what is written.

A good policy might simply be to embrace the tried and True:
"Don't feed the trolls."

I am NOT saying there should be unlimited tolerance.

IsabellaLinton
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27 Mar 2023, 6:14 pm

Pepe wrote:

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Ideally I think all the "I can't get a date with a woman" threads should be combined into one area

I don't see why it is so hard to simply skip over posts, threads, and ppl "you" don't like.
I do it all the time.
It ain't rocket surgery for me.

Is that a question for me?

If so, yes I do skip over stuff I don't like.
The problem is that the subforum isn't functional in its present state.
People are skipping the entire subforum because a majority of threads are the same topic.

That's not productive or user-friendly for people with other needs about love and dating.
Also, if its threads are sexist (not saying they all are), they need to be read and reported.
This is especially true when it's been brought to our attention by new members.

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Pepe
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27 Mar 2023, 6:19 pm

Fnord wrote:

rse92 wrote:

I think a lot of what some people find to be misogyny here is not exactly that. It exists here, but I've also seen the term used to try to shut down, or shut up, honest debate.

[opinion=mine]

Dear Moderators & Members,

Misogyny and misandry should have clear and objective definitions. Basing either solely on the subjective opinions of their alleged victims would encourage abuse of the terms, resulting in innocent people receiving warnings and bans. Examples of what misandry/misogyny are not:

• Pointing out factual errors or fallacious reasoning in someone's claims is neither misogyny nor misandry.

• Disagreeing in whole or in part with someone's opinions is neither misogyny nor misandry.

• Asking for more details in support of a claim is neither misogyny nor misandry.

• Reporting expressions of sexist contempt or hatred is neither misogyny nor misandry.

I suggest that the moderators accept definitions of misandry/misogyny that originated from a reliable, objective, and expert source outside WrongPlanet. For example, the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines misogyny as "hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women" and misandry as "hatred of men". Generally speaking, both these forms of sexism involve hatred, contempt, and prejudice.

Dislike for a person happens. But if the reason for disliking a person is their designated sex or their gender identity, and the dislike is expressed through lies, insults, condescension, gaslighting, or other forms of documentable abuse, then the person expressing those actions is clearly in the wrong and should be reported to the mods (whom I hope would act swiftly and decisively to correct the problem).

Thank you.

[/opinion]

Well said, indeed.

Pepe
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27 Mar 2023, 6:27 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Pepe wrote:

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Ideally I think all the "I can't get a date with a woman" threads should be combined into one area

I don't see why it is so hard to simply skip over posts, threads, and ppl "you" don't like.
I do it all the time.
It ain't rocket surgery for me.

Is that a question for me?

No.
I have been saying this literally for years.

IsabellaLinton wrote:

If so, yes I do skip over stuff I don't like.
The problem is that the subforum isn't functional in its present state.
People are skipping the entire subforum because a majority of threads are the same topic.

That's not productive or user-friendly for people with other needs about love and dating.
Also, if its threads are sexist (not saying they all are), they need to be read and reported.
This is especially true when it's been brought to our attention by new members.

As I said, posts can be skipped.

The situation here is that different ppl have different tolerances.
I have a very thick skin, these days, and rarely get offended.
If something is nonsense, IMO, I simply move on.
If certain ppl habitually post nonsense, eventually, I will simply skip over any of their posts entirely.
I DO do that with some members.
Simples.

TwilightPrincess
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27 Mar 2023, 6:29 pm

The problem is that if there is an excessive amount of negativity towards specific genders it could discourage people from posting because they worry about being ganged up on. Then it becomes an echo chamber.

I just report that which I find sexist.

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IsabellaLinton
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27 Mar 2023, 6:30 pm

I agree with Fnord's list because debate should always be welcome. A fine line is drawn when men start "mansplaining" to women by dismissing or invalidating women poster's lives, experiences, and beliefs or feelings, about love and dating or any other topic as it pertains to women's points of view, even if it's in the context of healthy debate. The same is true in reverse although I don't know a term for "womansplaining" even though it surely exists or happens. It's also important to look for patterns in these types of behaviours. If a poster invalidates an other-gendered person's lived experience pertaining to gender and continues doing that to other other-gendered people in many instances, there could be a problem.

Also Fnord's list doesn't mention agendered, nonbinary, or transgendered members and the potential for biphobia or transphobia as a sexist ideology.

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Last edited by IsabellaLinton on 27 Mar 2023, 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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27 Mar 2023, 6:31 pm

BraveFig wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

I think it should be in L&D because that's what it's about, for the most part.
Another option would be Mod Attention, especially if we want to rewrite some rules.

Good thinking!! Tbh, Idk which one would be more appropriate, but both sound like good choices, tho!!

I agree that this thread should NOT be in The Haven.

Pepe
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27 Mar 2023, 6:43 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:

I have a theory.

Since we're forbidden from saying guys have it harder than gals when it comes to dating, I won't say that. Here's what I will say, however: Guys on the spectrum have a harder time than neurotypical guys when it comes to dating. As a result, a lot of guys on the spectrum might go misogynist in frustration (over his failures with women)

Human psychology at work, but mostly for younger men, IMO.
Testosterone overload in younger men has a lot to do with it.
Horny men be crazy.

Fnord
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27 Mar 2023, 6:45 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Fnord's list doesn't mention agendered, nonbinary, or transgendered members . . .

All of these fall under the term "gender identity".

What with gender identity being a multi-dimensional "spectrum", I left out specific gender identities for the sake of brevity -- I did not want to submit a "tl;dr;dc" post.

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IsabellaLinton
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27 Mar 2023, 6:46 pm

Fnord wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Fnord's list doesn't mention agendered, nonbinary, or transgendered members . . .

All of these fall under the terms "designated sex" and "gender identity".

What with gender identity being a multi-dimensional "spectrum", I left out specific gender identities for the sake of brevity -- I did not want to submit a "tl;dr;dc" post.

I know. Not faulting you. Just thinking out loud as I tend to do silently on screen.

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alex
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27 Mar 2023, 6:54 pm

everyone should be respectful to each other. but also, it’s understandable that people get upset if you say sexist, racist, ableist, or bigoted things, even if you didn’t mean to.

Lots of these things are internalized and ingrained in society so it’s easy to think you’re just saying something that’s common sense when in reality it isn’t common sense but a form of bigotry that is very much ingrained in society (media, pop culture, tv, music, books, etc)

So try to understand why a woman might be upset after reading something sexist (even if you had no idea it was considered sexist) when she’s used to facing these issues on a daily basis. Take some responsibility and be willing to consider that you may be wrong about whether or not what you said is OK. I certainly don’t say things that I used to say after being educated on them.

Women don’t owe you anything so there’s no reason to be frustrated by them. If you honestly communicate your intentions you’ll waste a lot of time and make it easier to find someone who wants what you have to offer.

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