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Solvejg
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15 Apr 2011, 7:43 am

Laz wrote:
Solvejg wrote:
Laz wrote:
The best solution would be less people around the world. It's not very popular as it involves a bit of killing. But I dunno a decent plague that wiped out half the human race would do the world wonders.


or just the idiots.


A genetically engineered virus that targets idiots.

But then who would we have left to do the idiot jobs like social workers n stuff?


Umm social workers aren't idiots, you need a degree for that. we can wipe out the factory workers and dental assistants and use robots.


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Tequila
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15 Apr 2011, 7:51 am

Tomasu wrote:
I believe that this little statement is very interesting and I believe that perhaps I have come across this statement from humans as an argument that I must eat meat.

However, I personally feel that this statement is simply stating "I have the ability to eat meat, therefore I must". Indeed, we see that this statement uses the same logic as "I have the ability to inflict harm upon myself, therefore I must".


Not necessarily. Harming yourself is generally painful (we'll take out the self-harm dimension). Harm does damage to your self physically and emotionally. The same cannot be said for having a nice lamb dinner now can it?



TheBicyclingGuitarist
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15 Apr 2011, 8:14 am

Tomasu wrote:

hale_bopp wrote:
Plants have a spiritual life force as well. I don't see it as any better than killing animals.

We do what we need to do to keep alive, which sadly is eating multiple things with souls.


^^ I believe I find this very interesting also hale_bopp. May I please ask, do you perhaps believe that plants may suffer? If so, do you believe that they suffer as greatly as many non humans, such as pigs or sheep etc. I agree very much that one must eat to survive and unfortunately one must eat poor living beings.

However, once we conclude that we shall eat to survive and not decide to pass away, then we may ask which individuals shall we eat? I wish to eat individuals in such a way that this minimizes suffering. I personally believe that plants, vegetables etc do not suffer, therefore I believe that I shall much prefer to eat these plants as opposed to those who may suffer greatly by my eating them.


The 20th century spiritual philosopher Alan Watts discussed this. He asked an enlightened friend of his that since he knew plants do suffer, why does he even eat plants? The friend replied, Yes I know, but they don't scream as loud. That is similar to what you are saying, except you don't believe plants suffer at all. Alan Watts had reason to believe they do, and while I don't necessarily agree with all his opinions on every subject, he is still one of the most intellectually and philosophically stimulating people I have ever read of or listened to.

Joseph Campbell, a popular scholar of Comparative Mythology, discussed a hunting culture's philosophy of the animal being a willing sacrifice, in other words it comes to you willingly to be eaten, and that it's okay to kill and eat it as long as you respect it and acknowledge that you will pay it back by feeding the grass for it to eat after your own dead body goes into the ground. The Disney Lion King film expressed this too in the Circle of Life song.

Also, our bodies are made to eat and digest meat. Yes, we can get the same nutrients from plant sources, but personally I've never seen a healthy-looking pure vegetarian. The ones I've seen look anemic and sickly. That said, I do not approve of living beings treated cruelly, even if their destination is the dinner table. It's all about respect.


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Last edited by TheBicyclingGuitarist on 15 Apr 2011, 9:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

TheBicyclingGuitarist
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15 Apr 2011, 8:27 am

Laz wrote:
There is also a theory that modern humans missing link in the evolutionary chain was an "aquatic ape" species. You can see that in the health benefits of populations that exclusively eat fish due to living on the coast.


In general, fish is healthier for us to eat than red meat is. But that missing link idea is not likely from what I've heard. One of my special interests the past thirty years especially has been the study of human evolution. So far as I know, the aquatic ape hypothesis (not a theory) was debunked long ago. Here is the Wikipedia article While not completely dismissing the possibility, this article pretty much says what TeaEarlGreyHot says:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
The Aquatic Ape theory has always interested me, but I found it lacking in the end. There were far too many assumptions made and not enough hard evidence to back them up.


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15 Apr 2011, 10:29 am

Tequila wrote:
Man was meant to eat meat. Englishmen weren't meant to eat exotic fruits and other vegan fare. We do, sometimes, of course, but that doesn't mean we're supposed to. :)



Is it ok for (half)Englishwomen to eat the occasional banana? *munches* 8)



Erisad
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15 Apr 2011, 11:21 am

Because meat is delicious. Also, most places don't cater to vegan diets (and if they do, they're options are limited) so you'll end up eating at home a lot. Besides, if y'all love animals so much, why are you eating all of their food? :P



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15 Apr 2011, 11:29 am

I just gotta say, I would not be okay letting a robot near my teeth.


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Tequila
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15 Apr 2011, 11:31 am

Laz wrote:
The best solution would be less people around the world. It's not very popular as it involves a bit of killing.


Do you fancy volunteering yourself then? All good things start at home and all that.



Tequila
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15 Apr 2011, 11:32 am

Henbane wrote:
Is it ok for (half)Englishwomen to eat the occasional banana? *munches* 8)


Banana? Yeuch. Though I don't mind apples, oranges (orange is my favourite fruit) and strawberries, amongst others.

Omnivorousness is the best way of going about it I think. :)



YourMother
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15 Apr 2011, 4:42 pm

I AM A VEGAN!! !!


Someone mentioned animal protein/sugars. These can easily be found elsewhere. really easily. really really easily. Easily.

Someone mentioned cats. Dogs are fine on vegan diets, as are female cats. Male cats CAN encounter some problems, but as far as I'm concerned, if you are keeping a cat in an environment where they can't catch some food for themselves, you shouldn't be keeping them at all.



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15 Apr 2011, 9:39 pm

Because cows, pigs, bison, sheep, goats, fish, clams, crabs, lobsters, certain snails, chickens, turkeys, pheasants, quail, and ortolan are delicious. And, while I've thought about it, I'm ok with them dying so i can eat.

But not iguanas. I hear they taste terrible.



Lace-Bane
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15 Apr 2011, 11:16 pm

Because Lace-Bane would never be able to give up eating fish :D. Plus, because they are living animals doesn't bother him in the slightest way :?... If Lace-Bane doesn't eat them, another bigger fish will :?.


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16 Apr 2011, 12:58 am

I tried staying away from meat but its all I thought about for the two weeks that I managed to pull it off. I can tell you the neighborhood pets were in jeapordy of becoming lunch around the last few days of my non-meat diet.


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Bethie
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16 Apr 2011, 3:42 am

I'm a vegan of five years. I couldn't go back if I tried. That stuff doesn't register as food to me anymore.
Plus, the smell of some of it makes me sick.


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16 Apr 2011, 3:47 am

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
Also, our bodies are made to eat and digest meat. Yes, we can get the same nutrients from plant sources, but personally I've never seen a healthy-looking pure vegetarian. The ones I've seen look anemic and sickly. That said, I do not approve of living beings treated cruelly, even if their destination is the dinner table. It's all about respect.


Our bodies are far more similar to herbivores than meat-eaters.
Even if the vast majority of vegetarians eat unhealthfully and look anemic and sickly, so what?
The vast majority of omnivores eat unhealthfully and look overweight and unhealthy.
Those say nothing of the healthfulness of either diet.
I certainly don't look anemic and sickly, nor does the vegan man who inspired me to become one myself.

The consensus in the field of human nutrition is that not only is vegetarianism nutritionally-adequate, but can provide benefit in the prevention of certain diseases.


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Laz
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16 Apr 2011, 3:51 am

Pescetarian diet is probably quite ideal in terms of health and nutrition

Oh I might add there are plenty of obese vegetarians :wink:


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