How does a bully not know they're being a bully?

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CaptainTrips222
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28 Nov 2011, 1:53 pm

I watched this company training video, and they had this thing on bullying that said how bullies sometimes don't know they're bullying others. I don't even believe that!



TenPencePiece
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28 Nov 2011, 1:57 pm

I've "bullied" other people without knowing - but I wasn't in a correct frame of mind at the time.


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iamnotaparakeet
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28 Nov 2011, 1:57 pm

If they justify their actions sufficiently, such as demonizing a person enough to make them a completely evil villain first, then they see nothing wrong with absolutely anything they do to the person who've they've mentally turned into a target deserving of all manner of hatred and vileness against them.



OneStepBeyond
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28 Nov 2011, 2:06 pm

i think with child bullies they don't entirely understand- it takes a while to fully develop empathy (if ever) and so if they can do it they often will- just because.
maybe some adults are the same? i have no idea



iamnotaparakeet
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28 Nov 2011, 2:12 pm

OneStepBeyond wrote:
i think with child bullies they don't entirely understand- it takes a while to fully develop empathy (if ever) and so if they can do it they often will- just because.
maybe some adults are the same? i have no idea


No, bullies who are children understand the emotions they cause in others and they enjoy them. It's humorous to them. Sadism essentially. Adult bullies are probably the same as children bullies though. Ones who are actually bullies and not merely ones in which a CBL module has defined to be a bully without intention of bullying though.



Grisha
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28 Nov 2011, 2:14 pm

This is definitely true.

I ended up having to physically fight a bully once in 5th grade (I threw the first punch and gave him a bloody nose). I'll never forget the look on his face, he was completely baffled at what just happened and seemed to have no idea why I did it - he just looked at me with total disbelief.

I realized that it simply never occurred to him that the person he was mistreating would dislike it, he just thought it was fun, so he did it.

I got in a lot of trouble for that, but he never bothered me again...



iamnotaparakeet
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28 Nov 2011, 2:19 pm

Grisha wrote:
I got in a lot of trouble for that, but he never bothered me again...


Sometimes, it may be worth the trouble to stand up to the cowards and face them down though. Your specific example makes it sound like you are referring to a person who had no intention of bullying, and so the assault on them was wrong, but if the intention of the person behaving as a bully is actually the tormenting of an individual then such an action against them wouldn't be wrong. Enough is enough sometimes and at a certain point one shouldn't have to put up with the garbage anymore.



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28 Nov 2011, 2:35 pm

Evil people don't usually see themselves as evil either.

They probably feel that whatever motivates them to do do what they do is a perfectly valid reason to do what they do. And the only people getting hurt are people they don't care about. Miss Beyond points out the lack of empathy. If you do not share some kind of bond or even a communication style with someone, it's easier to not be able to relate to them and understand or care about their pains, and easier to give in to selfish desires.


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iamnotaparakeet
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28 Nov 2011, 2:40 pm

Moog wrote:
Evil people don't usually see themselves as evil either.

They probably feel that whatever motivates them to do do what they do is a perfectly valid reason to do what they do. And the only people getting hurt are people they don't care about. Miss Beyond points out the lack of empathy. If you do not share some kind of bond or even a communication style with someone, it's easier to not be able to relate to them and understand or care about their pains, and easier to give in to selfish desires.


And what of those who actually do see the pain and hurt they cause in others and see the consequences of their words and find it funny?



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28 Nov 2011, 2:42 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Your specific example makes it sound like you are referring to a person who had no intention of bullying, and so the assault on them was wrong


Trust me, this guy made my life at school hell for months, and whenever I told a teacher about it, he would promise not to do it anymore and do it again anyway. I felt like I had no other option at that point, and I never felt any remorse for doing it, ever.

Fortunately, schools seem to have finally realized that it's not "OK" for a student to be bullied and deal with it far more harshly now (at least at my child's school).

I wonder how many school gun massacres it took for them realize that? :roll:



iamnotaparakeet
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28 Nov 2011, 2:46 pm

Grisha wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Your specific example makes it sound like you are referring to a person who had no intention of bullying, and so the assault on them was wrong


Trust me, this guy made my life at school hell for months, and whenever I told a teacher about it, he would promise not to do it anymore and do it again anyway. I felt like I had no other option at that point, and I never felt any remorse for doing it, ever.

Fortunately, schools seem to have finally realized that it's not "OK" for a student to be bullied and deal with it far more harshly now (at least at my child's school).

I wonder how many school gun massacres it took for them realize that? :roll:


Quite a few probably, while they were busy blaming video games instead of bullies.



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28 Nov 2011, 2:51 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
And what of those who actually do see the pain and hurt they cause in others and see the consequences of their words and find it funny?


In their minds it is 'good' to bully. They may see a victim as 'evil', different, intelligent, threatening to their own power or something. And they feel that they are the hero in some way.

I believe as the Buddha did; all beings seek 'good' and happiness, it's just that the ideas about what is good can be highly backward or twisted.


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28 Nov 2011, 4:01 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If they justify their actions sufficiently, such as demonizing a person enough to make them a completely evil villain first, then they see nothing wrong with absolutely anything they do to the person who've they've mentally turned into a target deserving of all manner of hatred and vileness against them.


I believe this. There is someone who has bullied me for 2 years now and he has said some pretty nasty things about me without even knowing who I am as a person. I'm certain that helps him justify his horrible behavior towards me. He also likes to hold me accountable for things he's created and made up about someone I know in real life. I guess it makes him feel superior. I've ask him one time if he was aware that he was bullying me and he said yes. I wonder if a lot of bullies are also sociopaths or psychopaths?


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iamnotaparakeet
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28 Nov 2011, 4:09 pm

Taupey wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If they justify their actions sufficiently, such as demonizing a person enough to make them a completely evil villain first, then they see nothing wrong with absolutely anything they do to the person who've they've mentally turned into a target deserving of all manner of hatred and vileness against them.


I believe this. There is someone who has bullied me for 2 years now and he has said some pretty nasty things about me without even knowing who I am as a person. I'm certain that helps him justify his horrible behavior towards me. He also likes to hold me accountable for things he's created and made up about someone I know in real life. I guess it makes him feel superior. I've ask him one time if he was aware that he was bullying me and he said yes. I wonder if a lot of bullies are also sociopaths or psychopaths?


That's the kind of horrible stuff I'm talking about there. The computer based learning module that the OP mentioned is something which tries to ameliorate an awful situation. While it may be a good stance to presume the best about others so as to help one's own behavior, the best case scenario is seldom true and often there are people who love to illustrate that very principle of pessimism. So much psychobabble tries to paint everyone as righteous in their own sight, but after a point such moral relativism runs thin and it becomes obvious that there is a right and wrong and some people clearly do cross those lines.



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28 Nov 2011, 4:22 pm

I think that bullies know exactly what they're dong and they like to see a reaction from their victims.


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iamnotaparakeet
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28 Nov 2011, 4:40 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I think that bullies know exactly what they're dong and they like to see a reaction from their victims.


Most probably do.