Stop Lab Experimentation and Eating of Chimpanzees

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Toy_Soldier
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07 Nov 2012, 3:08 pm

MONKEY wrote:
It should only by done on human volunteers. Because at the end of the day these drugs are being used on humans, and what works one way on a human body might be quite different on the body of a different species.

I love Pinkie btw, I don't know much about him but the photos are adorable!

And while we're on the subject, aren't bonobos just the coolest?
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I agree totally on only volunteers being used for medical testing & experiments. And there are many who do volunteer.

Yes, Pinkie is almost unbearably cute. :) And my heat goes out to see him born with that condition. But he did his little best and the others didn't reject him, and thats something to be thankful for. Sometimes humans aren't even as nice.

The Bonobo's look so much like just some chillin people its amazing. :lol: You can put imagined conversations to it and their looks at one another are so similiar to our reaction. I thought I read Bonobo's are the closest Chimps of all to us, but maybe I got that wrong.

Baboons have always been my favorite apes for some reason.
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When I saw that scene in he old spooky movie 'The Omen', when they attack the car, I saw something so similiar to how soldiers behave when they meet an 'enemy'. Both frightened and agressive, but mostly depending upon one anothers support. This is a more comical car incident. :lol:
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roccoslife
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07 Nov 2012, 3:17 pm

Humans are only allowed to volunteer for trials in drugs that have been tested enough to be proved relatively safe. If they were to test drugs on humans in their earliest stages then thousands would die horrible painful deaths. Thats why primate testing is still worthwhile. No matter how intelligent chimps are, their lives are still not as important as any human life. No chimp is going to cure cancer, or invent new sustainable energy sources etc. By giving their lives to help research they may end up indirectly aiding in such developements though, by being part of the process of creating medicines that may stop the next einstein from dying prematurely.

As harsh as it sounds, we are the alpha species on this rock. Other alpha predators feels no guilt in providing for the continuation of their species, I dont see why we should (within reason of course).


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Last edited by roccoslife on 07 Nov 2012, 3:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Mike_Garrick
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07 Nov 2012, 3:18 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:
They are different from us, but again where does this concept that you can do anything you like to other animals come from ?


Bout the same place as your placing primates higher then other animals does.
Primates are like us so they are better then other animals, because we are.
But then I suppose a cow isn't nearly as important as a monkey.

Man, if you eat any kind of meat or wear leather then you can just shut up now.
This would make your opinion invalid and hypocritical.

Animals are animals, we are better then them. This opinion will never go away.
An animals life is valued anywhere from free to thousands of dollars, but usually its closer to free.


By the by, they test medications on animals first because most of them turn out to be....well deadly.
But I suppose you would prefer that thousands of people die researching cancer and other fatal diseases every year then mice and monkeys. "Yes I'm low balling"
Personally I don't really care either way, but the rest of the world does and they wouldn't go for it.
Most people seem to frown on companies killing people with their medications, even experimental ones and tend to then sue said company for as much as they can.
Which would without new laws making med companies further untouchable, result in them getting their asses sued into oblivion and causing our medical advances to drop to a slow crawl in which most companies would be terrified to try anything new or dangerous in fear of losing their jobs or even going to jail.



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07 Nov 2012, 4:13 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
It should only by done on human volunteers. Because at the end of the day these drugs are being used on humans, and what works one way on a human body might be quite different on the body of a different species.

I love Pinkie btw, I don't know much about him but the photos are adorable!

And while we're on the subject, aren't bonobos just the coolest?
Image


I agree totally on only volunteers being used for medical testing & experiments. And there are many who do volunteer.

Yes, Pinkie is almost unbearably cute. :) And my heat goes out to see him born with that condition. But he did his little best and the others didn't reject him, and thats something to be thankful for. Sometimes humans aren't even as nice.

The Bonobo's look so much like just some chillin people its amazing. :lol: You can put imagined conversations to it and their looks at one another are so similiar to our reaction. I thought I read Bonobo's are the closest Chimps of all to us, but maybe I got that wrong.

Baboons have always been my favorite apes for some reason.
Image


When I saw that scene in he old spooky movie 'The Omen', when they attack the car, I saw something so similiar to how soldiers behave when they meet an 'enemy'. Both frightened and agressive, but mostly depending upon one anothers support. This is a more comical car incident. :lol:
Image


Tsk tsk, baboons are monkeys not apes. :P But yeah I like baboons, as mischievous as they are. If one raided my car I'd feel honoured.

There are some that say bonobos are closer to us than chimps, but it's very unlikely as chimps split from bonobos only 1 million years ago and we split from the chimp line about 7 million years ago. So they are both roughly the same relatedness to us, which is still pretty damn high. I've read that bonobos have a closer resemblance to the more primitive ancestors of us all, they retained some of the old features or something.


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07 Nov 2012, 4:14 pm

Mike_Garrick wrote:
Toy_Soldier wrote:
They are different from us, but again where does this concept that you can do anything you like to other animals come from ?


Bout the same place as your placing primates higher then other animals does.
Primates are like us so they are better then other animals, because we are.
But then I suppose a cow isn't nearly as important as a monkey.



You either didn't actually read the posts, just skimmed, or so not comprehend what you read very well. Hate having to quote myself, but you make it unavoidable.

Toy_Soldier wrote:
I don't believe it should be done on any people or animals involuntarily.

Toy_Soldier wrote:
But going back to Chimps, only 1.4% difference in DNA seperates us from them. They are closer to us then to the other apes actually when it comes to DNA. From a common ancestor one indivisual led to us and likely its brother or sister led to them (Chimps). They are simply our closest relative, but not special in deserving protection against use in harmful experiments or erradication. All animals deserve that to my mind. Chimps are special in that their closeness to us makes them a favorite subject of medical experimentation. But in a sense its like killing your cousin to take body parts to save your brother, because the organs have the best chance of not being rejected.


The rest of what you say is even more non-sensical & ludicrious. Find a troll fight somewhere else. I won't waste my time on you.

P.S. Regret to just dismissively cut you out, but I'll do it to anyone who tells me to shut up when I am genuninely trying to present my opinion in an open forum.



Last edited by Toy_Soldier on 07 Nov 2012, 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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07 Nov 2012, 4:19 pm

Have you seen the documentary "chimpanzees: an unnatural history"? It's about some sanctuaries in Canada and America that look after ex lab chimps. A lot of them have some serious psychological issues, and in one sanctuary they are all HIV positive (humans infected them on purpose, f*****g humans) so can only be housed with each other. Many of them used to be pets as babies but got moved on to labs when the "owners" couldn't handle them, most of those ex pets find comfort in household items and one chimp had his personal space decorated like a living room with a settee and stuff.
It's a really good documentary, I'd recommend it if you haven't seen it already.


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07 Nov 2012, 4:29 pm

MONKEY wrote:
Have you seen the documentary "chimpanzees: an unnatural history"? It's about some sanctuaries in Canada and America that look after ex lab chimps. A lot of them have some serious psychological issues, and in one sanctuary they are all HIV positive (humans infected them on purpose, f***ing humans) so can only be housed with each other. Many of them used to be pets as babies but got moved on to labs when the "owners" couldn't handle them, most of those ex pets find comfort in household items and one chimp had his personal space decorated like a living room with a settee and stuff.
It's a really good documentary, I'd recommend it if you haven't seen it already.


No I haven't seen it, but will look try and find it. I have heard about the sanctuaries though. The labs often use the same animals over an over to operate and experiment on. One female chimp has been experimented on over 40 times. Its just really sick.



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07 Nov 2012, 4:47 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
Have you seen the documentary "chimpanzees: an unnatural history"? It's about some sanctuaries in Canada and America that look after ex lab chimps. A lot of them have some serious psychological issues, and in one sanctuary they are all HIV positive (humans infected them on purpose, f***ing humans) so can only be housed with each other. Many of them used to be pets as babies but got moved on to labs when the "owners" couldn't handle them, most of those ex pets find comfort in household items and one chimp had his personal space decorated like a living room with a settee and stuff.
It's a really good documentary, I'd recommend it if you haven't seen it already.


No I haven't seen it, but will look try and find it. I have heard about the sanctuaries though. The labs often use the same animals over an over to operate and experiment on. One female chimp has been experimented on over 40 times. Its just really sick.


The amount of biopsies an individual has on their organs is just obscene, at the end of it they become old before their time because their insides are withered to nothing.


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07 Nov 2012, 5:16 pm

roccoslife wrote:
Humans are only allowed to volunteer for trials in drugs that have been tested enough to be proved relatively safe. If they were to test drugs on humans in their earliest stages then thousands would die horrible painful deaths. Thats why primate testing is still worthwhile. No matter how intelligent chimps are, their lives are still not as important as any human life. No chimp is going to cure cancer, or invent new sustainable energy sources etc. By giving their lives to help research they may end up indirectly aiding in such developements though, by being part of the process of creating medicines that may stop the next einstein from dying prematurely.

As harsh as it sounds, we are the alpha species on this rock. Other alpha predators feels no guilt in providing for the continuation of their species, I dont see why we should (within reason of course).


OK, but look at the big picture at how the Human Race is handling or enviroment and future in general. I don't think I need to explain. I imagine you already can see we are idiotically destroying the planet, our only home, to provide for the temporary expansion of our race.

One after another species of animal and plant life falls into extinction taking with them how much potential of other remedies and cures ?

One of my most basic beliefs is that no life should be subjected to pain or suffering and that includes any human volunteers. And therefore I do believe there are some things we should just not do if it can not be done otherwise.

Another personnel belief is equal value to all life on our world. No one species has any more right to exsistance than another. But most all species are not mentally cognizant of such considerations. We may or may not be the only ones capable of such evaluations.

But I come at this subject mainly from a Naturalist background. In nature big fishes eat little ones and so on. Humans are by nature omnivores as are Chimpanzees, and we may share certain hunting instincts from our common ancestor. But humans, perhaps alone of all species can choose another way, like say to become a Vegan for example. But I would not condemn anyone for continuing to eat meat, and only would raise opposistion if it was done cruelly.

Medical or any testing (such as for materials, chemicals & cosmetics) which is something new and optional does not in my opinion justify the injury and death of other lives (even animals). Could I imagine an exception. Perhaps, but it would have to be more then any current justification, and lab testing on animals should cease as standard practice.

If I was terminally ill, and especially if I was offered a large sum of money, I might voluntarily participate in an experiment that would end my short remaining life. It might be enough for some to do something that does some good. Being able to provide something for family or close friends would also be an incentive to others.



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07 Nov 2012, 5:33 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:
roccoslife wrote:
Humans are only allowed to volunteer for trials in drugs that have been tested enough to be proved relatively safe. If they were to test drugs on humans in their earliest stages then thousands would die horrible painful deaths. Thats why primate testing is still worthwhile. No matter how intelligent chimps are, their lives are still not as important as any human life. No chimp is going to cure cancer, or invent new sustainable energy sources etc. By giving their lives to help research they may end up indirectly aiding in such developements though, by being part of the process of creating medicines that may stop the next einstein from dying prematurely.

As harsh as it sounds, we are the alpha species on this rock. Other alpha predators feels no guilt in providing for the continuation of their species, I dont see why we should (within reason of course).


OK, but look at the big picture at how the Human Race is handling or enviroment and future in general. I don't think I need to explain. I imagine you already can see we are idiotically destroying the planet, our only home, to provide for the temporary expansion of our race.

One after another species of animal and plant life falls into extinction taking with them how much potential of other remedies and cures ?

One of my most basic beliefs is that no life should be subjected to pain or suffering and that includes any human volunteers. And therefore I do believe there are some things we should just not do if it can not be done otherwise.

Another personnel belief is equal value to all life on our world. No one species has any more right to exsistance than another. But most all species are not mentally cognizant of such considerations. We may or may not be the only ones capable of such evaluations.

But I come at this subject mainly from a Naturalist background. In nature big fishes eat little ones and so on. Humans are by nature omnivores as are Chimpanzees, and we may share certain hunting instincts from our common ancestor. But humans, perhaps alone of all species can choose another way, like say to become a Vegan for example. But I would not condemn anyone for continuing to eat meat, and only would raise opposistion if it was done cruelly.

Medical or any testing (such as for materials, chemicals & cosmetics) which is something new and optional does not in my opinion justify the injury and death of other lives (even animals). Could I imagine an exception. Perhaps, but it would have to be more then any current justification, and lab testing on animals should cease as standard practice.

If I was terminally ill, and especially if I was offered a large sum of money, I might voluntarily participate in an experiment that would end my short remaining life. It might be enough for some to do something that does some good. Being able to provide something for family or close friends would also be an incentive to others.


Image

I do eat meat, because I know my body likes variation and so on. But I do try to be mindful.


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07 Nov 2012, 11:43 pm

So do I, about once a week on average. :)

Found the clip that made such an impression on me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hABfS-H1xmE&playnext=1&list=PL152ACB4301AB03FA&feature=results_video[/youtube]

Ever see reconstruction of the extinct Gigantopithecus species before ?

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08 Nov 2012, 6:22 am

Oh yeah I've seen that before, it reminds me of Harry and the Hendersons.
I would have loved to see that creature in real life.


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08 Nov 2012, 9:34 am

How did someone decide that Gigantopithecus had red hair?
Don't most apes have black hair?
The local zoo here has only glass between the bonobos and the public; there is visual interaction both ways....fascinating and very, very funny...they are soooo smart and friendly!

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08 Nov 2012, 9:48 am

Sylkat wrote:
How did someone decide that Gigantopithecus had red hair?
Don't most apes have black hair?
The local zoo here has only glass between the bonobos and the public; there is visual interaction both ways....fascinating and very, very funny...they are soooo smart and friendly!

Sylkat


I think it's because they're supposed to be ancient relatives of the orangutan and were found in the same area. Although they could have been any colour in theory.

The zoo nearest to me with bonobos has the same set-up, it's fun to watch them but they don't have a lot of privacy.


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08 Nov 2012, 10:00 am

Toy_Soldier wrote:
Solvejg wrote:
roccoslife wrote:
But theyre so damn tasty....


i prefer orangutans personally. Nice and crispy on an open fire pit rotisarrie.


Hope you get Ebola.


I've heard that Ebola gives orangutans a certain spicy flavour that can't be achieved in any other way. But orangutan? True connoisseiurs know that bonobo meat is best.


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08 Nov 2012, 10:28 am

Shatbat wrote:
I've heard that Ebola gives orangutans a certain spicy flavour that can't be achieved in any other way. But orangutan? True connoisseiurs know that bonobo meat is best.


Let me guess. Your the one on the right ?

http://Image