Page 3 of 4 [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Murihiku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,441
Location: Queensland, Australia

20 Nov 2015, 4:53 pm

One thing that can confuse people learning English is how to respond to questions asked in a negative form.
For example:

Are you not going to the party tonight?

In English, if you are going you say "yes, I'm going"; but if you aren't going you say "no, I'm not going". The "yes/no" part matches the positive/negative form of the verb.

But in a few other languages that I've learned it's the other way around. They'd say "no, I am going" (as in "no, that's not right, I am going") or "yes, I'm not going" (as in "yes that's right"). The "yes/no" response directly answers the question.

I wonder how other languages handle this situation.


_________________
It is easy to go down into Hell;
Night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide;
But to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air –
There's the rub, the task.


– Virgil, The Aeneid (Book VI)


pluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,751
Location: Paisley,Scotland UK

20 Nov 2015, 7:15 pm

I work in shipping and export a lot of Spirits (whisky etc). Our agent in Macedonia asked,in all seriousness,if we
were shipping ghosts as he'd never heard of another meaning for spirits.


_________________
I have lost the will to be apathetic


Campin_Cat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,935
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

20 Nov 2015, 8:17 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
I've read the entire thread, and even though I can't remember a previous post after I've read the next one (LOL), I don't think anyone has mentioned words that when you put the accent on a different syllable, makes it a different word, like: conTENT and CONtent.

Also, someone said that there were no such words as "a pant" and "a scissor"----but, I've heard those used, my whole life, because of my study of Fashion Design, and was even taught to say "a scissor"; I have heard that they are "old English".



Is "a pant" in fashionspeak a "pair of pants"? Or just a pant leg?

A pair of pants----like, one would say: "You know, you could put a pant with that sweater, as well, and that would look good too!"

And is "a scissor" the whole "pair of scissors", or does it mean just one disengaged half ( one blade, and one finger handle) of the thing?

A pair of scissors----you would say: "Hand me a scissor so I can snip this thread off of here."

It's sort-of like..... You wouldn't say "a pair of twins", cuz "a pair" is two, and "twins" is two. A scissor is two blades, so saying "a pair of scissors" is redundant----unless, of course, you're talking about two separate instruments.


"Pants" must be related to the word "pant" as in "a dog panting". Both must trace back to some Anglo Saxon or Old English word that means a flat thing like a tongue that hangs down.

Yeah, I don't know where "pants" / "a pant" came-from, because Europeans say "trousers". I lived in Britain for two years, but when I first got there, I was like "OMG, what language are THEY speaking?" LOL Then, when I listened, more closely, I realized they were speaking in the same tongue as my grandparents, and thus I realized that my grandparents spoke in what younger people called "Old English"----sans the colloquialisms.



Campin_Cat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,935
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

20 Nov 2015, 8:26 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Another odd thing is the expression "here here".

In a gathering when some one says something that is spot on and you want others to hear what that person said- on both sides of the Atlantic you will say "here here".

Whats annoying is that in print it's spelled "here here". When the expression first appeared folks were probably saying "HEAR here" ( hear what this bloke is saying who is standing over here). So it should be spelled "hear here", and not "here here".

That's interesting, it's always driven me NUTS when someone says "here, here"----cuz I always thought the saying was "hear, hear" (as in, a shortened version of "Hear ye, Hear ye"); but, I can totally see how it could be what YOU said.



Campin_Cat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,935
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

20 Nov 2015, 8:37 pm

I wanted to make a more specific comment, regarding accents----not only the kinds that differ in New York, New Jersey, and the South (and even different areas of the South)----but, because the U.S. is such a melting-pot of a-million-and-one cultures, people will usually pronounce a word using their OWN language's rules. For instance, there's a street in downtown Baltimore, that's spelled P-A-C-A (not in all caps, though----I was just using those, so the word stands-out)----the Baltimoreans pronounce it in a way that the P-A-C rhymes with pack; but, Europeans (and others, like Indians [the Far East kind]) pronounce it like the P-A-C rhymes with "sock".







_________________
White female; age 58; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)


Campin_Cat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,935
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

20 Nov 2015, 8:49 pm

Oh, also, the WRITING of English is hard----in the sense that what is "proper" changes, so often, and it drives me crazy.

For instance, when I was being taught English, "thankyou" was ONE word (as in the salutation "Thankyou for buying me the purple socks!"), "alot" was ONE word; there was "it's", which was a contraction for "it is", then there was "it's" that showed possession (for instance, a part of an inanimate object [like you would say "Mary's little lamb", you would also say "it's legs", when referring to a table's legs]); and, a myriad of changes in other words----and, we ALL know how much an Aspie LOVES change!! LOL I HATE it!! Plus, social media is KILLING proper English!!






_________________
White female; age 58; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)


Murihiku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,441
Location: Queensland, Australia

20 Nov 2015, 9:21 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Another odd thing is the expression "here here".

In a gathering when some one says something that is spot on and you want others to hear what that person said- on both sides of the Atlantic you will say "here here".

Whats annoying is that in print it's spelled "here here". When the expression first appeared folks were probably saying "HEAR here" ( hear what this bloke is saying who is standing over here). So it should be spelled "hear here", and not "here here".p


Campin_Cat wrote:
That's interesting, it's always driven me NUTS when someone says "here, here"----cuz I always thought the saying was "hear, hear" (as in, a shortened version of "Hear ye, Hear ye"); but, I can totally see how it could be what YOU said.



The expression is generally written as "hear, hear", as a shortened form of "hear him, hear him!". The expression was recorded as far back as the late 1600s in the English Parliament.


_________________
It is easy to go down into Hell;
Night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide;
But to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air –
There's the rub, the task.


– Virgil, The Aeneid (Book VI)


Murihiku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,441
Location: Queensland, Australia

20 Nov 2015, 9:40 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Oh, also, the WRITING of English is hard----in the sense that what is "proper" changes, so often, and it drives me crazy.

For instance, when I was being taught English, "thankyou" was ONE word (as in the salutation "Thankyou for buying me the purple socks!"), "alot" was ONE word; there was "it's", which was a contraction for "it is", then there was "it's" that showed possession (for instance, a part of an inanimate object [like you would say "Mary's little lamb", you would also say "it's legs", when referring to a table's legs]); and, a myriad of changes in other words----and, we ALL know how much an Aspie LOVES change!! LOL I HATE it!! Plus, social media is KILLING proper English!!

How interesting. I've actually never seen "thankyou" written as one word. But when I was growing up, I always saw it hyphenated as "thank-you". It was kinda weird seeing it as two separate words ("thank you") for the first time at uni, but now I always spell it like that.

One interesting thing about change is how "improper changes" become accepted norms over time. Take the expression "all right", as in "are you all right?". Traditionally it's written as two words in all cases, but the single word "alright" has become very common in some instances, to the point where it might end up becoming standard in a generation or two. In a similar way, "whom" is gradually being supplanted by "who", and the word "you" supplanted the words "thou", "thee" and "ye" centuries ago. It's all really fascinating how it happens organically over time

It makes me want to find out the best ways of introducing deliberate changes to a language and getting wider acceptance for them. Like a standard, gender-neutral alternative to "he or she", which we don't have in English (I tend to use singular "they" in those situations, purely for want of a better alternative).


_________________
It is easy to go down into Hell;
Night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide;
But to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air –
There's the rub, the task.


– Virgil, The Aeneid (Book VI)


Drawyer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 May 2015
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,861
Location: Away

21 Nov 2015, 2:45 am

Murihiku wrote:
One thing that can confuse people learning English is how to respond to questions asked in a negative form.
For example:

Are you not going to the party tonight?

In English, if you are going you say "yes, I'm going"; but if you aren't going you say "no, I'm not going". The "yes/no" part matches the positive/negative form of the verb.

But in a few other languages that I've learned it's the other way around. They'd say "no, I am going" (as in "no, that's not right, I am going") or "yes, I'm not going" (as in "yes that's right"). The "yes/no" response directly answers the question.

I wonder how other languages handle this situation.
Yeah, my language should answer as being bolded to that question. Korean grammar is totally different from English's. Negative form question is one of good examples..Yes, English grammar would confuse me a lot before. I had to make up my own maps for English grammar.

To these kind of questions,
1. come up with the later part first ,that is, the part after yes/no
2. and then matches yes/no in my mind,
3. combine 1 and 2 and then speak out.

For instance,
Are you not going to the party tonight?-->If I'm not going, in my brain,

1. I comp up with later part "I'm not going" first
2. since there is "not" I know I should start with "No".
3. I combine two parts in my brain and say "No, I'm not going."

That's the trick I've been using so far.


_________________
"Embrace the glorious mess that you are."


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,889
Location: temperate zone

21 Nov 2015, 6:59 am

I'm a native speaker, and that would probably throw me if someone said "So... you're not going to the party?", or "are you not going to the party".

Today I would say "Correct. I am not going to the party."

But when I was younger I might have said "yes...I mean no...I mean..YES I am not..er...NO I am not...ummm...".

Lol!


I've heard that the easiest foreign language for Koreans to learn is, oddly enough, Latin.

Ancient Latin has a very similar grammar to modern Korean. The both use "cases".



Drawyer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 May 2015
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,861
Location: Away

21 Nov 2015, 7:28 am

I didn't know that Ancient Latin is the easiest foreign language for Korean to learn.

As far as I know, Korean belongs to Altaic language group, being placed in the same group I've heard that Mongolian and Turkish has similar linguistics to Korean as well.

Besides them, many Koreans find easy to learn Japanese as their particles correlate directly with Korean for many parts.


_________________
"Embrace the glorious mess that you are."


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,889
Location: temperate zone

21 Nov 2015, 7:57 am

Drawyer wrote:
I didn't know that Ancient Latin is the easiest foreign language for Korean to learn.

As far as I know, Korean belongs to Altaic language group, being placed in the same group I've heard that Mongolian and Turkish has similar linguistics to Korean as well.

Besides them, many Koreans find easy to learn Japanese as their particles correlate directly with Korean for many parts.


Actually I got that thing about Latin from one guy on the net.

Yes Korean is supposed to be related to the Turkic, (including Mongolian) languages that spread out from north central asia called "Altaic" (after the Altai mountains).

And on language maps of the World they generally give Korea and Japan the same color (I think that has more to do with map makers running out of colors than with scientific linguistics). Its hypothesized, but has never been scientifically proven that Korean, and Japanese, are related languages.

One day was idly cruising the net researching the topic of the alledged kinship of Korean and Japanese, and I stumbled upon a website of a Korean guy holding court with American yuppie business travelers. They asked him "what language was easiest for you to learn", and he said "oddly enough Latin" for the reasons above.

Among European languages English is one extreme- word order is important. And Latin is the opposite- word order doesnt matter-but the word changes so you know what the word is doing in the sentence. In Latin the noun changes if its the object or if its the subject. Am not a linguist-there are other things.

But the point was that even though Korean has no kinship to Latin they have similiar structures. So a Korean can take to it quite easily.

And what the guy said made sense to me. So its probably true.

But that is interesting that you are aware of at least some similarities between Korean and Japanese with "particles".

I know what an "article" is ( is, and, the, but). But I am not sure what an "particle" is. Lol!



Drawyer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 May 2015
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,861
Location: Away

21 Nov 2015, 4:34 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Among European languages English is one extreme- word order is important. And Latin is the opposite- word order doesnt matter-but the word changes so you know what the word is doing in the sentence. In Latin the noun changes if its the object or if its the subject. Am not a linguist-there are other things.

But the point was that even though Korean has no kinship to Latin they have similiar structures. So a Korean can take to it quite easily.

And what the guy said made sense to me. So its probably true.

But that is interesting that you are aware of at least some similarities between Korean and Japanese with "particles".

I know what an "article" is ( is, and, the, but). But I am not sure what an "particle" is. Lol!
Yeah, I believed what you said in the first place. Latin should be easiest language for Korean to learn.
As for "particles" you can think them as any parts of speech, I'll give some instances, as my keyboard doesn't support Japanese yet, I have to copy from the web.

Japanese "が" (ga) : Korean "가" (ga) -- indicate the subject of a sentence
Japanese "へ" (e) : Korean "에" (e) -- indicate movement towards something

Word order is generally the same.
2008年3月28日、ウィキペディア全言語版合計の記事数が1000万項目を超えました
2008년3월28일, 위키피디아 모든 언어판 합계 기사수가 1000만항목을 초과했습니다.

As Korean, Japanese are rooted from Chinese, they have a lot in common..


_________________
"Embrace the glorious mess that you are."


Last edited by Drawyer on 21 Nov 2015, 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DailyPoutine1
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2015
Age: 19
Posts: 2,278
Location: Province of Québec, Canada

21 Nov 2015, 4:40 pm

English is easy; French is harder. And I think Asian languages are even more.



lostonearth35
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jan 2010
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,409
Location: In a cuckoo clock

21 Nov 2015, 9:42 pm

I once read about someone who didn't know six and half a dozen are the same number. It was a teenager working at a MacDonald's. The customer decided let them wallow in their own ignorance and asked for a box of six Chicken McNuggets instead of half a dozen.

:roll: