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20 Aug 2018, 7:18 pm

Many people talk about self hatred in who they are as individuals. I don't feel any particular hate towards myself as a person because I am generally an okay human but as a human there is definitely a default hatred I feel.
I don't like "my specie" and me being also it gives me a weird self hatred feeling. It's harder to get rid of this feeling because it does not depend on people acting well or badly towards me or me acting well of badly. These are completely superficial matters. At a deeper level, I just don't feel the love for humanity I used to feel as a child because I reject all the rose tinted glasses society forced upon me. I don't see the point of "saving humanity" by colonising other planets. I don't find that an honourable mission. I love animals and the natural world because it does not have intent and ulterior motives. Yes, the natural world is cruel but since animals don't realise that they don't take advantage of each other as much as humans do and are, therefore, less evil. When i talk to people about this (which i avoid to because i feel like they resent me for killing their vibe) they usually say i'm depressed or thinking too much. Yes, probably, thinking too much reveals the patters in life that most of us can ignore and happily live on. I admit i sometimes "forget" and simply live in the matrix but soon the feeling comes back and everything around me feels like a lie. it's like the filter is taken away and what is left is chaotic, cruel and without explanation. this impacts my view of myself, friendships, family and everything except bonds with my interests and the natural world which are the only things keeping me sane. I feel the latter are more naive and purer connections.

I probably sound very crazy but I'm hoping someone can relate to this conversation. It was triggered by watching comedy and drinking tea lol 8)


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20 Aug 2018, 7:36 pm

"I love humanity; it's people I can't stand!" -- Charles Schulz, as Lucille Van Pelt in the Peanuts comic


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20 Aug 2018, 7:45 pm

Fnord wrote:
"I love humanity; it's people I can't stand!" -- Charles Schulz, as Lucille Van Pelt in the Peanuts comic



meaning he likes the idea of humanity but dislikes the people he meets (therefore the reality of humanity).
fiction is always more appealing than reality. in the imagination humans have constructed a mythology for humans.
we are smart / evolving / trying to save the planet / blah blah and we can take pride in our specie. or can we. it's like nationalism.
also this mythology keeps us going forward as we go round in circles.


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20 Aug 2018, 7:54 pm

You can't change the world, so what's your solution?


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20 Aug 2018, 7:57 pm

Fnord wrote:
You can't change the world, so what's your solution?


I don't have any, I just wish I weren't born (and I say this in a very objective, non depressive way if you can believe that)


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20 Aug 2018, 8:27 pm

You bring up an interesting point. In think it's undeniable that more humans in general hate their own human race than in the past. I think it's for a whole host of different reasons. Division has led to fear. Fear has led to hate.

My parents grew up in the 1950s in the city of Minneapolis. The neighborhoods were communities. Everyone knew everyone else. People helped each other, lent and borrowed things to each other.

Now, most people don't even know who lives a few doors down. You ask a fellow shopper at the grocery store how the sweetcorn is and she says nothing and walks away (happened to me).

I know there are also many reasons why someone may support abortion, but in part, I really do think a factor is the burgeoning hatred of humanity by humanity. Save the poor little turtle or pigeon at any and all costs, but a human fetus has a 50/50 chance of either growing up to think like the rest of those who think they're on the side of good, or, he could grow up to be scumbag on the "other side". That turtle would never grow up to be an alt-right Nazi. That pigeon would never grow up to be a left-wing nut job.

Divide and conquer.


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20 Aug 2018, 8:50 pm

Magna wrote:
You bring up an interesting point. In think it's undeniable that more humans in general hate their own human race than in the past. I think it's for a whole host of different reasons. Division has led to fear. Fear has led to hate.

My parents grew up in the 1950s in the city of Minneapolis. The neighborhoods were communities. Everyone knew everyone else. People helped each other, lent and borrowed things to each other.


I didn't bring up the economic impact on social relations that you mention here in terms of growing globalisation /capitalism / and the break down of local ties. I was thinking more in an existential sense but I actually I agree that these type of awareness has increased because of socio economic factors that you mention. The life in many developed countries is poorer socially and richer materially. Especially in those countries that have had a long history of immigration which has lead to greater divisions among groups, greater social and economic inequality, anger, distrust etc I think mass immigration is bad because it disrupt the healthy ecosystem of a group - as much as I'd like to see everyone getting along and blah blah thinking like this is unrealistic.

i stayed with a tribe for a few weeks. I didn't have enough time to soak up the culture and really my understanding may be limited but what I understood was that these people have very strong social ties and cooperate with each other. It is quite inspiring. Not perfect of course, but they seemed satisfied with their life. They came together after working in the evening to joke around and play cards and drink tea. I think that the society I live in has poorer ties. Someone like me, who strives to be accepted, suffers more than most.



however, what i was saying was on a more existential level. But i agree that maybe had i lived in a smaller community sorrounded by a caring family and friends (like i did as a child) i would not have the time to think about these things as much and humanity would appear a lot kinder. still, i think i would delve into these thoughts as that is my nature.


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20 Aug 2018, 8:55 pm

Magna wrote:
That turtle would never grow up to be an alt-right Nazi. That pigeon would never grow up to be a left-wing nut job.



yes, there is less inequality among the natural world in that sense. (except maybe some die quicker due to circumstances or some are born less strong etc) but the animals are not gonna sit around wishing they were better than the other. They don't have that ulterior motive to use each other for personal gain. they just live their life and do their pidgeon things until they are no more without any "whys". i mean it's insane if i think about it. the whole system upon which life is built is insane. and cruel - you know, eating each other to survive. what a cruel destiny.


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