When you're a non-American on this site...

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Fireblossom
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12 Jan 2019, 7:43 am

TW1ZTY wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
Why did this turn almost entirely in to a conversation about accents? I meant to talk more about cultural differences and such... :?

ASS-P wrote:
...Maybe you cover this somewhere below, but you don't say in your description what country you're in!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! :P


Oops! :P
I'm from Finland and English isn't even an official language here, so I also have to deal with language barriers sometimes. Like the time when people were talking about almond milk here and I mentioned that I had to use google translate to even know what an almond was, and someone misread it as just google and wondered how I had never heard of almonds. But that was his mistake, not mine. :lol:


Because accents are one of the easiest cultural differences to recognize? You say that like we are being off topic and we are not.


I just meant that the conversation got stuck to just one part of the matter and I brought it up because I'd like to hear opinions about the other parts, too.



naturalplastic
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12 Jan 2019, 9:41 am

envirozentinel wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Aprilviolets wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I guess as an American I'm guilty of that too. But since I live in a region that always gets mocked for our exaggerated drawl and using words like "Ya'll" all the time I really don't judge how other people speak. :P


Here in Australia there are people who say "Youse" its you with an se on the end it's even in the dictionary now.


That's pretty cool. I heard that "Ya'll" is also becoming more accepted as an actuall word. It's a shortened combination of the words "You" and "All".
kl


I know this expression. Someone from Arkansas uses it too. They may add y'all to the dictionary but it'll never be allowed as a Scrabble word as words with apostrophes (such as don't) aren't permitted, nor are hyphenated words.

Every country or region has its own words . If I said I was late for bioscope because the robots were out, then later we had a braai and visited the spaza shop, US folk would be puzzled!


In most European languages there are two kinds of "you": the formal "you", and the familiar "you". And the formal "you" doubles as the plural "you".

English used to have that as well. "You" was the formal "you", and "thou" was the informal.

But then three hundred years ago 'thou' just dropped out of the language. The upside is that we English speakers no longer have to worry about the status of the person we are talking to in order to figure out which "you" to use. But the downside is that we no longer have a plural "you" which is often a needed thing.

So in some dialects they reinvent the plural "you".

In Boston, and in New York, the various waves of immigrants from Europe (Irish, Italian, Polish, etc) all had plural versions of you in the language of the countries they came from, and they all assumed that English would have that too, and since in English you tack on an "s" to create the plural form of a noun they all assumed that pronouns work the same way. So that's why folks who speak in that northeastern Sly Stallone "friggin aye" dialect say "the two of ya's" . I want the two of yas to go over then, and then yous guys need to do such and such.

Meanwhile in the hinterland of the mountains of Pennsylvania and west Virginia folks began to say "you-uns". And I the deep south and in Texas (actually in most of the US, but the southern drawl makes it more noticeable in the south) they began saying "Y'all" (the contraction of you and all).

And I am all for Y'all being the new reinvented plural "you".



TW1ZTY
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12 Jan 2019, 9:48 am

Ya'll is just easier to say than "You all" and it's easy to figure out what it means. :)


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naturalplastic
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12 Jan 2019, 9:56 am

Fireblossom wrote:
Why did this turn almost entirely in to a conversation about accents? I meant to talk more about cultural differences and such... :?

ASS-P wrote:
...Maybe you cover this somewhere below, but you don't say in your description what country you're in!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! :P


Oops! :P
I'm from Finland and English isn't even an official language here, so I also have to deal with language barriers sometimes. Like the time when people were talking about almond milk here and I mentioned that I had to use google translate to even know what an almond was, and someone misread it as just google and wondered how I had never heard of almonds. But that was his mistake, not mine. :lol:


The irony is that your country probably has more WP members relative to its population than any other country including the USA.

Finland is physically big on the map of Europe, but it has a small population. Only what? Four or five million? To Britian's 65 million, and the US's three hundred million plus.

Yet there have been quite a number of WP folks from Finland over the years. So for your small size you all are well represented.

In contrast India has a fifth of the world's population, AND is part of the British commonwealth (they speak English and have a certain integration into the English speaking world), and yet I can only recall one active member from India. Havent seen her in a long time, but she did visit frequently for a good amount of time. And I have never seen anyone from mainland China on WP. And I don't even recall encountering folks from Japan, or Indonesia, either. Japan is an industrialized and thoroughly wired country so you would think that with their large population you would see many Japanese here, but you don't. That one young lady named "Drawyer" was from South Korea (comparable to Britain or France in population size). She was a very active member, but disappeared. Not many other Koreans show up here.



fluffysaurus
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12 Jan 2019, 10:00 am

Yous as in 'yous lot' gets used here too. Ya-ll is not at all (though we are familiar with it from tv)


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fluffysaurus
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12 Jan 2019, 10:05 am

It would be interesting to have some members from India because they have their own distinct dialect of English

the same way there are diffs between English and American. I find this most notable in the comments section

on youtube vids that are Indian but in English.


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kraftiekortie
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14 Jan 2019, 12:06 pm

I've known a couple of people from Japan here. I believe at least one person I encountered was from Mainland China.

Another "plural you" is "youse" as in "youse guys." In Pittsburgh, people say (or used to say) "yinz."



Fireblossom
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14 Jan 2019, 12:21 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
Why did this turn almost entirely in to a conversation about accents? I meant to talk more about cultural differences and such... :?

ASS-P wrote:
...Maybe you cover this somewhere below, but you don't say in your description what country you're in!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! :P


Oops! :P
I'm from Finland and English isn't even an official language here, so I also have to deal with language barriers sometimes. Like the time when people were talking about almond milk here and I mentioned that I had to use google translate to even know what an almond was, and someone misread it as just google and wondered how I had never heard of almonds. But that was his mistake, not mine. :lol:


The irony is that your country probably has more WP members relative to its population than any other country including the USA.

Finland is physically big on the map of Europe, but it has a small population. Only what? Four or five million? To Britian's 65 million, and the US's three hundred million plus.

Yet there have been quite a number of WP folks from Finland over the years. So for your small size you all are well represented.


Could be, but it doesn't really help as long as the actual amount is low, which it is, especially if the users aren't very active.
Oh, and there are around 5,5 million of us. Less than there are people in the home cities of some people here I bet...



kraftiekortie
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14 Jan 2019, 12:26 pm

New York City has almost 9 million people.....



DeepHour
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14 Jan 2019, 1:02 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

In most European languages there are two kinds of "you": the formal "you", and the familiar "you". And the formal "you" doubles as the plural "you".

English used to have that as well. "You" was the formal "you", and "thou" was the informal.

But then three hundred years ago 'thou' just dropped out of the language. The upside is that we English speakers no longer have to worry about the status of the person we are talking to in order to figure out which "you" to use. But the downside is that we no longer have a plural "you" which is often a needed thing.




'Thou' may well have dropped out of use three hundred years ago, but quite a few people from the generation before my parents used the accusative form of the word, 'thee', fairly often. This was probably more common in relatively isolated, non-metropolitan communities, especially in the North of England.

I haven't heard 'yous' for the plural of 'you' very much at all. I suspect it's more common in places like Liverpool.

'Y'all' seems a bit heavy-handed for referring to groups of two or three. I thought I'd heard it used with reference to just one person in the odd American film, but may be mistaken in this.


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kraftiekortie
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14 Jan 2019, 1:08 pm

Yep. "Y'all" is sometimes used in a singular sense.

But it's usually used in a plural sense in the South and some places outside the South of the USA.



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14 Jan 2019, 1:16 pm




Peter Cook, satirizing the Northern use of 'thee' (just before the 2 minute mark) on Michael Parkinson's show, mid-1970s.

Something from the interview which American viewers could potentially find confusing - at around 4:46 Parkinson refers to Cook's 'Public School'.In the UK, this is a term used to describe the elite Independent schools, eg Eton, whereas in the USA it refers to state-funded schools, I believe.

Very funny interview, btw.


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Last edited by DeepHour on 14 Jan 2019, 1:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

kraftiekortie
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14 Jan 2019, 1:18 pm

I have been known to use "thee" whenever I wanted to sound "literary."



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15 Jan 2019, 12:46 am

...Yeah, the American schools, boarding ones, that are in the Brit " public school " mode are called " prep schools " - I think short for (college) " perparatory schools ". The kind of model/archetypical examples of those schools tend to be more in the New England and Mid-Atlantic states, at least in the stereotypical/standard fiction sense.
A tually, that open up the whestion of the names/definitions America s give to different parts of the country..." the South " is well-known (even though as America expanded it became " the Southeast ", really), but maybe other ones :? ...?





eepHour"]


Peter Cook, satirizing the Northern use of 'thee' (just before the 2 minute mark) on Michael Parkinson's show, mid-1970s.

Something from the interview which American viewers could potentially find confusing - at around 4:46 Parkinson refers to Cook's 'Public School'.In the UK, this is a term used to describe the elite Independent schools, eg Eton, whereas in the USA it refers to state-funded schools, I believe.

Very funny interview, btw.[/quote]


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15 Jan 2019, 1:23 am

...' Youse " tends to be a stock phrase in American fiction/drama representation of a, even, lovable tough guy from the " tough " parts of NYC...Especially Brooklyn, of course :lol: !..
Or the likewise " tough " parts of Philly or Boston too, of course...if the producer of the show's feeling adventurous :P!


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Renal kidney failure, congestive heart failure, COPD. Can't really get up from a floor position unhelped anymore:-(.
One of the walking wounded ~ SMASHED DOWN by life and age, now prevented from even expressing myself! SOB.
" Oh, no! First you have to PROVE you deserve to go away to college! " ~ My mother, 1978 (the heyday of Andy Gibb and Player). I would still like to go.:-(
My life destroyed by Thorazine and Mellaril - and rape - and the Psychiatric/Industrial Complex. SOB:-(! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!