Aphantasia seems so bizarre to me.

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Lost_dragon
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28 Nov 2018, 8:06 pm

Fittingly enough, I find it strange to imagine what it would be like to have this condition. Personally, I have the exact opposite of this- Hyperphantasia. So I can imagine things visually on demand in realistic detail. Everything to the wrinkles on a person's skin to their freckles, and creases in their clothes.

I sometimes draw what is in my mind's eye without using any references, and I've had people in the past ask if I based it on a photograph when actually I just imagined it and copied that mental image onto paper. When it comes to writing stories, I often like to visually imagine myself in the situation as I write. It can feel quite real, as I can imagine all the sights, smells, textures, and sounds. Almost as if I'm actually there. Previously I've had people ask if I physically went to visit the place when writing one of my stories, and they looked surprised when I told them that I simply imagined it and then wrote down what I pictured.

"But, it seems so real 8O " was their response. However, my mind's eye isn't beyond flaw. I like to use references now and then so I can improve on my artwork, there are certain proportions that I find hard to capture on paper and I like to look up guides on this. Sometimes I can copy a mental image almost perfectly, but there's one little detail that throws me off. For instance, I once created a digital 3D model of a billard table based on a mental image in my head, but I looked up a reference for the cue sticks, because I wanted to get the pattern that certain cue sticks have just right. Other than that, I was able to create the model purely based on the mental image. References are always useful to refer to though, just in case your artwork needs adjusting.

I'm not insulting those with aphantasia, or at least I hope it doesn't come across that way. Rather I find it odd to think about what my life would be like with this condition because it's so different to what I'm used to.


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kraftiekortie
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28 Nov 2018, 8:08 pm

You're a lucky dog LOL

I have an "imagination." But you seem to take the cake!



Lost_dragon
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29 Nov 2018, 1:29 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
You're a lucky dog LOL


Or rather a lucky dragon. :D Thank you, Kraftie.

kraftiekortie wrote:
I have an "imagination." But you seem to take the cake!


What would you say that you use your imagination for the most? Is it in a more practical sense (i.e. there's a problem that needs fixing, so you imagine a solution or you mentally prepare for an upcoming situation) or is it more fanciful?

My field of study often requires me to think on my feet and provide creative ideas. Even in my extra-curricular activities I have to do so. I'm part of an improvised comedy club, so I have to think of material whilst I'm performing. There's an opportunity coming up next year to perform in this two and a half hour show, some of it is improvised but there are also scripted parts, but at the moment I'm not sure if I want to sign up to that or not. I'm hoping to improve on my animation ability and also on my writing.

I don't know what career path I want to go down exactly, perhaps graphic design with some elements of web design but I also enjoy animation, maybe I'll work in advertising. Designing virtual reality game levels is a possibility as well. Looking forward to the digital storytelling module next year, perhaps at some point I'll be able to work with a company to create an interactive digital storybook for children or something. I just hope that I'll manage to find work somewhere after all this. After all, art and design doesn't have the best of reputations for steady employment rates (I hear it's a big thing in major towns and cities here though). But, I don't have many talents outside of IT, marketing, and art. I'm good at English, so if I were to create a digital storybook then I could help with plot lines. Maybe I'll mostly be doing freelance work, the future is uncertain right now. I've done paid commissions for websites before.

Perhaps I'll make an audio book or animation on YouTube some day. Get a little bit of ad revenue from that. You don't make much though unless it really kicks off. I could make a mobile app perhaps, I don't know really. Guess I'll be relying on a few things here and there just in case certain elements fall through.


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IstominFan
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01 Dec 2018, 12:53 pm

I have an imagination, but mine is primarily verbal, not visual, although I don't think I have complete aphantasia, as I can visualize some things.



firemonkey
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01 Dec 2018, 1:16 pm

@lostdragon , As someone with aphantasia I find it hard to imagine(it seems really incredible) what it's like to be someone like you. We are polar opposites.



Lost_dragon
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01 Dec 2018, 7:16 pm

firemonkey wrote:
@lostdragon , As someone with aphantasia I find it hard to imagine(it seems really incredible) what it's like to be someone like you. We are polar opposites.


Well, it has downsides as well as positives. Mainly that if I see something unpleasant I can often recall it in an uncomfortable amount of visual detail. Or if someone describes a horrible situation I tend to automatically picture it in my head. 8O However, there are of course good parts.

IstominFan wrote:
I have an imagination, but mine is primarily verbal, not visual, although I don't think I have complete aphantasia, as I can visualize some things.


Hmm, could you give an example of verbal thought? :chin:


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jimmy m
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01 Dec 2018, 8:10 pm

Lost_Dragon Hyperphantasia sounds like a wonderful gift. I have an active imagination but not to the level of detail that you are blessed with. I am face-blind (prosopagnosia) so I do not remember any facial details. But on the other hand I am a pattern thinker and this trait serves me very well.
I hope you are able to market your skill. There are all kinds of specialty niches, often ones that nobody ever thinks about. They may not be niches that people are drawn to but one can make a good career out of them.

For example someone on this board commented a few weeks ago, that many individuals with computer skills dream about becoming game developers. But because there are so many seeking employment in this area, that it is difficult to find a job in this niche. But on the other hand, programmers with the same skills can perform programming work on automated traffic control systems in large cities and those jobs were more secure and pay better wages. So keep your options open and recognize opportunities when they magically appear.


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Lost_dragon
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10 Feb 2019, 6:56 am

I remember reading a discussion in a comments section one time, people were discussing aphantasia. Specifically regarding dreams. Apparently it varies, some people with aphantasia have visual dreams but others don't. It would be interesting to know just how life-like these dreams can be, because going from not being able to visualise to having detailed dreams must be odd if they are fairly realistic looking.

Also, I have to wonder if lucid dreaming is still possible for these individuals, perhaps the dreams cannot be controlled but have clear visuals? How grounded in reality are these dreams? Granted, it probably varies a bit but still, I'm intrigued. Is it possible to remember the events of the dream? :scratch: Since I would assume that they wouldn't be able to visually recall what happened, but maybe a more verbal memory list could be a possibility.

For example, you remember that in the dream there was a man sitting in a chair, but you can't visually recall it.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Feb 2019, 7:36 am

My imagination is mostly of the “fanciful” type....though I do try to imagine “solutions” sometimes.



Edna3362
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10 Feb 2019, 10:21 am

Despite having visual strengths and preferences, not having any of it doesn't seem so strange to me.
I'm more inclined to imagine work arounds than imagining how hard life might be without any visual thinking.


I can imagine concepts that are more abstract and less concrete to my current and default level of knowledge and awareness, both nonverbal and nonvisual that can go either linear or lateral.

Sometimes if I've gone too far, it goes three ways:
It's not just feeling things as if they were vivid and real before my eyes...
Confusing myself like seeing a really fast and overly high resolution movie with too many plot twists and paths that hadn't been spoilt for some reason, that I cannot process fast enough -- imagine sensory overload just way less painful and overwhelm is very manageable.
Or something similar to contemplation that feels more or less melancholic, and start seeing things in a rather distant like detached way. It's almost similar as imagining how small you are in the universe and you compare yourself to the sizes of the stars in real life, except gone a bit far than that and more overwhelming.

Quite why I somewhat know and understand things, yet couldn't ever have descriptions nor words for most of it. :|
It can go as far as crystal clear, whole and consistently stays within my minds eye as I translate it into real words or pictures -- enough to match professionals. To vague and blurry that I struggle to hold onto as I translate to transcribe and ends up fragmented, out of proportions, mixed up and incoherent... Some are just impossible unless I'm a math geek or more than just maths are involved.


Regardless, I'd still stick mainly visual learning, nonverbal thinking and imagination.


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jimmy m
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10 Feb 2019, 12:12 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
I remember reading a discussion in a comments section one time, people were discussing aphantasia. Specifically regarding dreams. Apparently it varies, some people with aphantasia have visual dreams but others don't. It would be interesting to know just how life-like these dreams can be, because going from not being able to visualise to having detailed dreams must be odd if they are fairly realistic looking.

Also, I have to wonder if lucid dreaming is still possible for these individuals, perhaps the dreams cannot be controlled but have clear visuals? How grounded in reality are these dreams? Granted, it probably varies a bit but still, I'm intrigued. Is it possible to remember the events of the dream? :scratch: Since I would assume that they wouldn't be able to visually recall what happened, but maybe a more verbal memory list could be a possibility.

For example, you remember that in the dream there was a man sitting in a chair, but you can't visually recall it.


That is an interesting question. I neither have aphantasia nor hyperphantasia. So I might be somewhere in between. My dreams are visual and verbal. They do not incorporate taste, touch or smell. But they might incorporate things like hunger, thirst, pain, fear, etc. Most dreams have a flow to them - a beginning and an end. Sometimes they can be disjointed for example:

I am on a train, an old train either coal or wood fired. The train is moving through a forest like the dense forest, Black Forest in Europe. So it has the flavor of around 1900. The train comes to a stop, like a rest stop in the forest. So I disembark and begin walking through the woods. I collect flowers and notice the birds and plants. But the train leaves and I did not hear the whistle. So I am alone in the deep woods, very alone. So I walk to the tracks and place my ears on the metal rails. When I try to understand why, I figure that it is due to listening to the vibrations on the metal tracks that can carry over many miles. So I am trying to figure out how far away the train has traveled from me. Then I become distracted by the flowers and butterflies and I walk through the woods. Then I am walking along a beach. No idea how I got there. There is no one in sight. I am thirsty but I cannot drink the salt water of the ocean. I begin to wonder how the plants survive in the sand next to the ocean salty water. --- Dream Ends and I wake up ---

Dreams can be rather helter-shelter. So if one has a dream, it can be multiple dreams in a row. So if you try and remember a dream, your mind might have passed through several different partial stories and the best you can do is remember the last. But this might be a very minor story and the most important ones lie back in time and are not remembered.

If you have a pen and paper handy, when you wake up in the middle of night, write down your dream quickly and then go back to sleep.


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Lost_dragon
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10 Feb 2019, 2:24 pm

@jimmy m.

My dreams are also verbal and visual. However, mine do incorporate touch, taste and smell. With varying consistency. For example, if there's flowers in my dream, I usually can only smell them if they are relevant. So if it's in the background then they won't have a smell, but if it plays a bigger role then it will (someone hands me a flower, and/or I'm in a florist etc).

If I'm in a damp building, and the focus is how damp and horrible it is then I can smell that. But if I'm in a rush to do something in this dream then I pay less attention to the background. Taste generally crops up less often, because I'm not usually eating in my dreams. Whereas touch will come with textures such a tree bark, wallpaper, sand and cushions.

Often it depends on what the focus of the dream is. If I'm a sentient inanimate object (I have some weird dreams) then the senses are dulled, but if I'm playing myself then it's different. Similarly, if I'm dreaming that I'm in a video game how I process it will be altered from how I would do normally (such as feeling slightly disorientated from lag when walking around). My dreams often have a mixture of reality and fantasy in them. This mixture can be downright amusing, I remember one where two people were fighting with magic, it started out in a fantasy world but suddenly they opened a door and were duelling in the middle of a gym I used to go to. :lol:

It's been a while since I kept a dream journal. My old one was full of random drawings and vague ideas. I liked this design for a bookcase I had in there, I remember seeing this beautifully designed bookcase in a dream and felt compelled to quickly draw it.

Might redraw that and create a digital 3d model based on it at some point. I currently have a folder with various designs and ideas in. Rather unimaginatively named the ideas folder. :P I sometimes come back to things and improve them, or use them either as inspiration for a project or as part of one. Some of the ideas in there are based on dreams, others aren't. There are even a few that were created due to nightmares.

I can visually recall some of my dreams, even a few that I had years ago. Others I forget almost instantly.


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jimmy m
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11 Feb 2019, 11:51 am

Lost_dragon it seems like a gift to me. I really have a hard time remembering my dreams. Poof and they are gone.


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