Does the earth turn or does everything turn round the earth?

Page 1 of 2 [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Mountain Goat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2019
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,439
Location: Wales, UK.

14 Jun 2019, 5:31 pm

Ok, so we have science which says the earth turns... But let us stop for a second. Let us assume that we know nothing. Then let us try to work out what is happening from what we actually see is happening. Could we find that we would have a very different view?

One of the things that I have done in my own personal life is to "Unlearn" all the educated teachings that I have had, and start to build it all back up again based on what I personally see and know to be true.

Now I don't know why, but most people don't seem capeable of doing this. They don't seem able to let go of preconcieved ideas and their educated teachings. (I am not saying to exactly cast them out of your memory here. I am saying to push them aside and start again building on your own personal observations in life). When I have introduced these ideas by starting on such a subject as I have listed above on other forums I get quite some abuse for suggesting the concept of thinking for yourself. It is as if they somehow can't comprehend depths of thought?

A thought came to me. If I am on the autistic spectrum, is this why I am able to think into depths like this for myself, where others who are no can't?

Ok. Lets test this. Lets explore the above subject about the earth. Lets attempt to start again on a personal journey to think things over. First of all we are aware that the difference between the movement of the earth compared to all around the earth is said to be just over 1000mph. (I believe it was said to be 1006mph). Now I will let you think what you would expect to see if rhe earth was spinning... And what you expect to see if rhe earth aas still and everything spins round the earth...

It is not a trick question. It is designed to promote the concept of free thought and explore to see who can or can't grasp the concepts of free thinking. There is no right or wrong answer, as it is all about the thinking process. No one take it personally if we have different views.


_________________
Awaiting assessment.


cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,875
Location: Boulder CO

14 Jun 2019, 5:44 pm

The answer is yes. There is no known epicenter of the universe.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


Space50
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 188

14 Jun 2019, 5:55 pm

How can we dance when our Earth is turning?
How can we sleep when our beds are burning?



Trogluddite
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2016
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,866
Location: Yorkshire, UK

14 Jun 2019, 6:48 pm

Neither; you have presented a false dichotomy. The universe revolves around me, of course! :lol:


_________________
When you are fighting an invisible monster, first throw a bucket of paint over it.


jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,438
Location: Indiana

14 Jun 2019, 7:06 pm

The earth spins about it polar axis. Because much of the interior of the Earth is in a molten state. The spinning Earth causes a slight deformation. The distance around the equator (equatorial circumference) is different than the distance around the poles (meridional circumference) by 41 miles. The earth is not quite spherical but better described as an oblate spheroid. It is the study of Geodesy.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,120
Location: temperate zone

14 Jun 2019, 9:22 pm

Humans looked up at the sky and noticed that the stars, moon, and sun, all seem to move around us. So that's what humans assumed was the case. That we were the stationary center of the universe, and that the universe revolved around us. All humans assumed that for a million years up until a few centuries ago. So suggesting that "its the universe that goes around us" as if that were a novel suggestion makes no sense because the oldest idea in the world.

A few bold thinkers in the ancient world did float the notion that maybe "the sky acts the way the landscape acts when you are moving around on a cart. It only seems to be moving when its really our own planet that is revolving". And such thinkers would get ridiculed, or worse for it.



Exuvian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2016
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 800

14 Jun 2019, 10:25 pm

Starting from nothing, it does seem to make the most sense that we're on a stationary surface and the stuff out there is what's moving. You may wonder why we don't feel like we're spinning. The answer is because we're bound to the spinning planet, moving with it.

It's similar to the sensation of being on an airplane and not feeling it moving forward (assuming you're not looking out the window to convince yourself that you are). You could even (theoretically) jump inside a plane and find that you didn't slam into the back of the craft at 500 knots because you and the plane are moving together.

Even still, that explains how we could be on a spinning planet and not sense it, but it doesn't explain why we are. For that, Copernicus had to make observations and calculations to discover the reality of the situation which was still not accepted even after Galileo's work and observations. Seeing Jupiter's moons orbit it instead of everything orbiting Earth does away with the geocentricity idea. Noticing Mars have "episodes" of orbiting backwards (retrograde) with respect to the stars was another curious hint.

Turns out, Mars has a larger orbital path than Earth, so once we pass it, it seems to move backwards. All this is more complicated than the apparent reality, but really puts the pieces into place on closer observation.



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 103,274
Location: Hanging out with my fellow Sweet Peas at Stalag 13

14 Jun 2019, 11:18 pm


_________________
Schultz

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26&start=645


Mountain Goat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2019
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,439
Location: Wales, UK.

15 Jun 2019, 5:09 am

It is something I spent a long time thinking about. Actually many things in life. I started proving the Bible and found I have no reason to doubt that it is not true as it all ties in spiritually as well as physically. Here is an interesting link if anyone wants to see physical places where biblical events took place.
www.arkdiscovery.com
I then started looking at things to see how they could match the bible, just to see if I could work out what is happening from a biblical perspective.
But even so, I also wanted to set out from the perspective of what I see and hear things happen.
And to ensure I don't miss something, my methods to come up with my theories (Which may or may not come to the right conclusions, and it does not matter as I really enjoy the deep thought process behind it), I adopted this approach. To gather together as many different theories as I could find. So this came from aliens to creation to evolution and many other ideas and principles which came my way. I then consider each principle. Some are discarded straight asay as they are too far out. Others do not tie in with what I actually see with my own eyes and so are discarded. You get the idea.
It has been a rather interesting journey for me which has involved a lot of thought and research from many unexpected places from education brainwashing techniques used to subdue the westwen world into conformity, to reserch into giants and dinosaurs.... I went into many different tangents before I came to a conclusion where I have my own simple theory which may just be correct. :D
If it is not correct it hardly actually matters now does it? After all. We all have our own individual lives to lead so the universe and all around us is insignificant compared to our daily tasks and responsibilities. The earth will eventually wear out and there's nothing we can do about it, unless we stop all air travel and block off all volcanos which are the two largest forms of pollution we have, and volcanos being the largest of all.... Makes me think how impossible life would have been if we go back millions of years ago when dinosaurs were being constantly choked up by volcanic ash... and maybe many dinosaurs saught to address rhe problem by capping the volcanos off... And then "Bang!" The pressure caused such an explosion that it wiped out the dinosaurs..... :D

Ok... Back to my theory.

My theory is that God made the earth first and made everything else to spin around the earth.

Now what does this imply? Even those who don't believe in God... This theory can still be followed in principle and I will share a few thoughts.

The earth being still or relatively still has gravity. The opposite effect of gravity is central fugal force. Now something does not quite sit well with me when I look at the common (As even within science many scientists dissagree on this) scientific view that gravity is caused by the spinning of the earth... Then those on the equator will be finding it hard to move and those on the poles would be flying off into space. Maybe why people have to wear lots of extra clothes to go exploring the polar regions, so that it keeps them on the ground? Or is it the sticky snow? Maybe why Santa Claus is able to fly so well with his raindeer? Gravity lessens on the very evening of 24th of december so he has to work fast.. :lol:

Anyway... Back to gravity. I had a thought. What if the earth was still with not only all else spinning around it, but what if all was also pushing down onto the earth, and this effect is what we call gravity. Let me explore this idea.
The moon does not spin. It goes round the earth. They say the gravitational pull of the moon on the earth causss the tides. However, let me bring my theory into it. If all on the outside is pushing on the earth equally, when the moon passes round, the pushing effect is interupted for a while which will cause the high tide. Interesting.

Next I want to put the still earth theory to the test. We have a 1000mph difference give or take a little between the earth and everything else. Now that is fast, so in theory, if I stood here on the earth and threw something straight up it should land somewhere backwards from the direction of the turn. If I jumped I would also have the same effect. Also there will be constant high winds as the friction of the air would be at the greatest next to the earth itself so having winds in different directions would be almost impossible? And I would expect to see very high winds?
Read on before jumping in to consider the next bit. If the earth was still and all moves around the earth, where would the most friction be inbetween the different speeds? In the area next to the spinning entity. So if the earth is still, we would expect to see large amounts of friction right at the outer edge of the earths atmosphere. And guess what! If we want to send something into space or back down again, where is it likely to burn up? When it reaches the outermost part of the earths atmosphere. Where there will be the most friction.


Now my theory also ties in with biblical principles if you read Genesis and the account of creation.
Something I have recently been looking at are stars. When Inget the telescope out there seems to be more goingnon then there seems. One star seems to have a hole in the middle so it can't be a distant sun at all, as it has a distinct pattern. Another seems to be vibrating somehow. I looked on youtube and some on there have much better telescopes then mine. And what they see is fascinating. Stars doing vastly different things. Don't believe me? Get a decent telescope and take a look. You will need high magnification and a decent tripod or stand. My binoculars are not strong enough as they only zoom into 25 or 30x magnification which I rarely zoom in as they are more practical at 10x for a small pair of binoculars!

I don't really know what is going on out there, but what I will say is life isn't what it seems and there is more going on then we are led to believe and in different ways. I am not saying I know the answers, but I do believe that science may not have all the answers and they may not always have it right, which for me makes life exciting. A whole world and universe of discovery... A re-evaluation of principles to research. To realize that what we are taught in school as being fact is a believed theory opened up my eyes to look at things for myself, and to add my playful humour into it too. I am not saying I have it right, but I am really enjoying the journey in doing so.


_________________
Awaiting assessment.


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,120
Location: temperate zone

15 Jun 2019, 7:50 am

There is too much nonsense in your post to even list.

You maybe thinking profound thoughts- but you obviously lack even the most basic education about history, science, and the history of science, to begin to fuel any thoughts you have. You need to take some basic courses.

First off- like I said before- you seem to think that you invented the idea that the earth is center of the universe- when in fact everyone thought that for a million years. It was the last few centuries of astronomical discoveries that proved the idea wrong.

Second: gravity is NOT "caused by the spin of the earth".

If the earth were not spinning we all would weigh the same as we do now.

Gravity is caused by the earth's mass. Not its spin. The moon has less mass than does the earth- so that's why the astronauts only weighed one sixth as much as they did on earth, and could hop around in their heavy space suits there.

Youre confusing gravity with centripetal force.

Centripetal force pulls you AWAY from the center of a spinning object that you are riding because of the momentum you get the faster you spin.

If you tie a rope to a rock and then spin the rock over your head, and then let go it will go flying (the longer the rope the farther it flies).

So the earths spins actually works against gravity the closer to the equator you are (for the reason you state- the earth gets bigger so its spins faster at lower latitudes).

And that's the reason that the American space program is based in Florida and not in New England. The closer to the equator you are the more you can exploit the spin of the earth to give your space rockets a little extra kick from the earths spin to get them into space. Save fuel in launching.

Okay...phew!

That was just in the first couple sentences of your last post.

Let me see what other craziness in the rest of your post! :lol:



Last edited by naturalplastic on 15 Jun 2019, 8:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,120
Location: temperate zone

15 Jun 2019, 7:58 am

Post script

You probably got confused from watching sci fi movies.

Centripetal force could in theory be used in future space ships to create whats called "artificial gravity".

The suggestion is that you build a big cylinder the size of a town, and make it spin slowly on its central axis. The outer part of the cylinder would get centripetal force that would pin the folks who live in the cylinder to the inside of outer wall of the cylinder in a way that would simulate gravity on Earth(imagine yourself walking around on the in side of a giant slow and majestically turning beer can).

This notion is used a lot in Hollywood space operas. And that might be where you got the notion that "spin causes gravity".



Exuvian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2016
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 800

15 Jun 2019, 10:21 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
I then consider each principle. Some are discarded straight asay as they are too far out. Others do not tie in with what I actually see with my own eyes and so are discarded. You get the idea.

Discarding out of hand what we can't see or already disbelieve will prevent the acquisition of knowledge. Germs, ultraviolet light, atoms, electrons... all invisible, all "too far out", all demonstrably exist.

naturalplastic wrote:
There is too much nonsense in your post to even list.

Some of the best arguments have been compromised by opening this way.



nick007
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2010
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,423
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont

15 Jun 2019, 10:22 am

It does tend to look like everything else revolves around the earth but most of us won't work for NASA or be teachers so it doesn't really matter what we believe/think on this subject.


_________________
But I don't want to go among mad people, Alice remarked.
Oh, you can't help that, said the Cat: we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
How do you know I'm mad? said Alice.
You must be, said the Cat, or you wouldn't have come here.


Mountain Goat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2019
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,439
Location: Wales, UK.

15 Jun 2019, 11:36 am

Naturalplastic. I think you are partly missing the point in why I started to think along these lines. I was using such thoughts as a way to excercise my brain. As to if my thoughts are true or not... Well. It hardly matters either way as it is not going to change my life or anyone elses lives to either conform or think in a non-conformed way. To me it is about the freedom of thought itself which I love to explore. If I took all the years of learning in schools and colleges as fact and I never questioned things in life my mind would be dead by now and I would simply be a slave. The subject I chose was because I could use my mind to think in depth and excercise my brain cells to enjoy the journey of discovery.

Yes, my conclusions to the theories I have have been the same ideas that many have had before. To me, being different, I simply don't want to be a slave to conformity. If everyone is heading to the beach I will head to the mountains! It is the sort of person that I am.


_________________
Awaiting assessment.


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,120
Location: temperate zone

15 Jun 2019, 12:53 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Naturalplastic. I think you are partly missing the point in why I started to think along these lines. I was using such thoughts as a way to excercise my brain. As to if my thoughts are true or not... Well. It hardly matters either way as it is not going to change my life or anyone elses lives to either conform or think in a non-conformed way. To me it is about the freedom of thought itself which I love to explore. If I took all the years of learning in schools and colleges as fact and I never questioned things in life my mind would be dead by now and I would simply be a slave. The subject I chose was because I could use my mind to think in depth and excercise my brain cells to enjoy the journey of discovery.

Yes, my conclusions to the theories I have have been the same ideas that many have had before. To me, being different, I simply don't want to be a slave to conformity. If everyone is heading to the beach I will head to the mountains! It is the sort of person that I am.

But you are not being "different" and not demonstrating "nonconformity". Youre just conforming to the group think of four hundred years ago, and are just pleasing the inquisition was eager to torture Galileo.