Are Brits proud of the slavery of the Empire ?

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chris1989
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01 Oct 2021, 2:53 pm

It does sound like an absurd question to ask and certainly no one would say that slavery was something to be proud of but I'm saying this because I seem think that those people here in the UK who say they are proud of the British Empire are sort thinking unconsciously that it was in someway a benefit and won't say anything bad about it even though they know that slavery is wrong. There are things I am proud of Britain for like those who gave the lives fighting in wars such as World War 2 against the Nazis and the discoveries and inventions of medicines and vaccinations to save lives created by people such as Edward Jenner. There also things I'm not proud of such as the slave trade, the massacre committed by British troops in Amritsar, India, some actions committed in times of war such as the firebombing of Dresden in World War 2. I do think we should teach both the good things and the bad things and not just one of them.



funeralxempire
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01 Oct 2021, 2:57 pm

Image

This should be an interesting topic.


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uncommondenominator
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01 Oct 2021, 3:37 pm

Nations that have bloody and morally dubious pasts often develop some really specific amnesia that conveniently forgets all of the horrible things they've done as a nation. That way they can be proud of the good stuff, and ignore the blood and bones that the good stuff is built upon or stuffed between.

England "forgets" the way they've treated the Scotts, Irish, and Welch, not to mention every other nation they've conquered and enslaved throughout history.

America loves to "forget" the way they genocided entire nations of natives, and then enslaved various ethnicities to build the nation for them - forcing stolen people using stolen resources to build on stolen land. Gee, I wonder where all this extra "prosperity" came from. It's funny how profitable things can be if you get all the labor and resources for free.

Australia conveniently "forgets" the natives that they genocided and abused while they conquered the land mass, and continue to mistreat until they get around to writing a watered down law that improves the optics of the situation, but not the actual situation.

England and russia conveniently "forget" the 1000 years they spent ripping the middle east apart while fighting over access to India, and wonder why the middle east dislikes western culture so much.

And yes, other nations do it too, like china - but they do so KNOWING that if nations like america australia or england try to call them out on it, they can just point to our own genocide and human rights violations, and we'll panic like a naked woman in a shower that just had the curtain whipped open, cover ourselves and run off in embarrassment. It's a conversation they desperately want to avoid.

And I agree, this should indeed be an interesting topic :D



naturalplastic
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01 Oct 2021, 7:20 pm

The British Empire outlawed the slave TRADE (ie stealing humans directly from Africa) in 1807, and outlawed slavery itself in 1833.

The British navy had a squadron to patrol Africa's coast, and it freed 150 thousand people from illegal slave traders.

In contrast the Dutch didnt outlaw in slave holding colonies in the Caribean until 1860, the US freed it's slaves in 1865 (and had to fight a civil war to do that), and Brazil didnt outlaw slavery until the late 1880's.

Long story short: the early British Empire of the 1500s and 1600s was indeed largely built upon Caribbean slave plantations( and the products of those), but Britain was the first major power to outlaw slavery, and also took the lead in fighting slavery from the 1700s onward. So Brits can be proud of that later fact.

So IMHO on the one issue of slavery it cancels out. Maybe more than cancels out as a net plus.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 01 Oct 2021, 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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01 Oct 2021, 7:25 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The British Empire outlawed the slave TRADE (ie stealing humans directly from Africa) in 1807, and outlawed slavery itself in 1833.

The British navy had a squadron to patrol Africa's coast, and it freed 150 thousand people from illegal slave traders.

In contrast the Dutch didnt outlaw in slave holding colonies in the Caribean until 1860, the US freed it's slaves in 1865 (and had to fight a civil war to do that), and Brazil didnt outlaw slavery until the late 1880's.

Long story short: the early British Empire of the 1500s and 1600s was indeed largely built upon Caribbean slave plantations( and the products of those), but Britain was the first country to outlaw slavery, and also took the lead in fighting slavery from the 1700s onward. So Brits can be proud of that later fact.

So IMHO on the one issue of slavery it cancels out. Maybe more than cancels out as a net plus.


Eventually trying to make good on a wrong doesn't negate the wrong. It doesn't cancel out anything, it's merely the result of changing to a different model of exploitation.


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01 Oct 2021, 11:59 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
America loves to "forget" the way they genocided entire nations of natives, and then enslaved various ethnicities to build the nation for them - forcing stolen people using stolen resources to build on stolen land. Gee, I wonder where all this extra "prosperity" came from. It's funny how profitable things can be if you get all the labor and resources for free.
That's not quite the case. Some people in American are very openly proud of the horrible parts from our past & are actively working to bring it back. Since slavery was mentioned in the original post, I'll use it as an example here. Some people & businesses in the deep south love to display confederate flags & are very vocal about hating African Americans. Also lots of big businesses want slave labor. They love to hire illegal immigrants they can exploit & the buisnesses support abolishing the minimum-wage & health care & any thing that gives the poorer people a leg up. It's one thing for a country & it's people to try to hide their dark past but it's a whole nother level to try & bring your deep dark past back.


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chris1989
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02 Oct 2021, 5:27 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The British Empire outlawed the slave TRADE (ie stealing humans directly from Africa) in 1807, and outlawed slavery itself in 1833.

The British navy had a squadron to patrol Africa's coast, and it freed 150 thousand people from illegal slave traders.

In contrast the Dutch didnt outlaw in slave holding colonies in the Caribean until 1860, the US freed it's slaves in 1865 (and had to fight a civil war to do that), and Brazil didnt outlaw slavery until the late 1880's.

Long story short: the early British Empire of the 1500s and 1600s was indeed largely built upon Caribbean slave plantations( and the products of those), but Britain was the first major power to outlaw slavery, and also took the lead in fighting slavery from the 1700s onward. So Brits can be proud of that later fact.

So IMHO on the one issue of slavery it cancels out. Maybe more than cancels out as a net plus.


But also there those people out there who will probably deny the fact that Britain ended the Slave Trade. I remember someone even saying that Britain didn't help India achieve its independence.



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02 Oct 2021, 6:41 pm

chris1989 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
The British Empire outlawed the slave TRADE (ie stealing humans directly from Africa) in 1807, and outlawed slavery itself in 1833.

The British navy had a squadron to patrol Africa's coast, and it freed 150 thousand people from illegal slave traders.

In contrast the Dutch didnt outlaw in slave holding colonies in the Caribean until 1860, the US freed it's slaves in 1865 (and had to fight a civil war to do that), and Brazil didnt outlaw slavery until the late 1880's.

Long story short: the early British Empire of the 1500s and 1600s was indeed largely built upon Caribbean slave plantations( and the products of those), but Britain was the first major power to outlaw slavery, and also took the lead in fighting slavery from the 1700s onward. So Brits can be proud of that later fact.

So IMHO on the one issue of slavery it cancels out. Maybe more than cancels out as a net plus.


But also there those people out there who will probably deny the fact that Britain ended the Slave Trade. I remember someone even saying that Britain didn't help India achieve its independence.


How can you claim Britain helped India achieve independence when they were the colonial occupier?
That's like a kidnapper trying to take credit for letting their victim go.

hey guys, I ended his kidnapping, ima hero don't arrest me for kidnapping.

That's not how things work.


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02 Oct 2021, 7:29 pm

The Great Hunger.


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naturalplastic
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03 Oct 2021, 2:57 am

chris1989 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
The British Empire outlawed the slave TRADE (ie stealing humans directly from Africa) in 1807, and outlawed slavery itself in 1833.

The British navy had a squadron to patrol Africa's coast, and it freed 150 thousand people from illegal slave traders.

In contrast the Dutch didnt outlaw in slave holding colonies in the Caribean until 1860, the US freed it's slaves in 1865 (and had to fight a civil war to do that), and Brazil didnt outlaw slavery until the late 1880's.

Long story short: the early British Empire of the 1500s and 1600s was indeed largely built upon Caribbean slave plantations( and the products of those), but Britain was the first major power to outlaw slavery, and also took the lead in fighting slavery from the 1700s onward. So Brits can be proud of that later fact.

So IMHO on the one issue of slavery it cancels out. Maybe more than cancels out as a net plus.


But also there those people out there who will probably deny the fact that Britain ended the Slave Trade. I remember someone even saying that Britain didn't help India achieve its independence.


I appreciate that youre taking my side- in the first sentence. But like Funeral...In the next sentence, I cant figure out WTF youre talking about. :lol:

You might remember from middle school that India was ruled by Britain, and had to struggle to throw off the British yoke, and was famously lead in that struggle by Gandhi (like we Americans fought to throw off British colonial rule ourselves, and were famously led by George Washington).

So...are you saying that the Brits deserve credit for helping India escape from being held captive by...the Brits themselves????



chris1989
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03 Oct 2021, 8:23 am

No I didn't say that Britain is the one most responsible for India's independence because they weren't, I mean there were Brits like Louis Mountbatten who were trying grant India's independence quickly.