There was never a global flood like in Noah story.

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Matrix Glitch
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26 May 2022, 7:10 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Regarding dinosaurs many believe in the "gap theory". Basically that there was a first creation, and then that Earth was made void. This is also known as "the First Earth Age" which was when the dinosaurs existed.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Genesis 1:1-2

Some believe verse 2 should be translated as "Now the earth became formless and empty".


Which would be nonsense. Its logical that heaven and earth would start out disorganized, and then god would give it "form". Not that he (1) gave it form, and then (2) took form away, and then (3) gave it form again. And did that all on the first day of Creation.

And if youre going postulate one little mistranslation into one word, and then project five billion years of geological history being concealed into that one word then...youre doing such a vast amount of free interpretation that you might as will admit to the truth...that you dont take the Bible literally.

Not saying that you cant adhere to the religion. Just that you cant take the Bible literally.


You're acting like I'm the one who came up with the gap theory. And or that since I'm knowledgeable about it, that means I must hold to it.

I think you should cease with the ad hominem retorts and just discuss the topic, rather than talking about me, especially since you know so little about me.

The truth (still talking about me and not the topic) is I'm not entirely Sola Scriptura and lean more towards early Orthodoxy in that regard.

Now are we finished talking about me or should I start a seperate thread for that?



klanka
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26 May 2022, 7:16 am

I actually got in trouble for taking a lot of the new testament literally. The Bible has hidden layers/meanings a lot of it isn't literal....but its true :Difficult to describe without paragraphs



Matrix Glitch
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26 May 2022, 7:35 am

klanka wrote:
I actually got in trouble for taking a lot of the new testament literally. The Bible has hidden layers/meanings a lot of it isn't literal....but its true :Difficult to describe without paragraphs


Well if the NT were to be taken 100% literally, then there would be a lot of Christains with gouged out eyes and missing appendages.

Basic Christianity is summed up in the Nicene Creed. Which allows Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Lutheran, Baptist, Calvinist, Pentecostal etc to be on the same page where it matters the most.



klanka
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26 May 2022, 8:54 am

agreed :)



IsabellaLinton
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26 May 2022, 9:06 am

This brings us back to the use of metaphors. ^
I'm really enjoying this conversation.
Thanks for the info, Matrix and klanka.



klanka
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26 May 2022, 9:24 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
This brings us back to the use of metaphors. ^
I'm really enjoying this conversation.
Thanks for the info, Matrix and klanka.


yw

How far do you take the events in the bible to be metaphors? You think it's all false?



Matrix Glitch
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26 May 2022, 10:39 am

The Bible has very obvious metaphors and similes that virtually no one would argue aren't such. Is Jesus aka the Lamb of God really an actual lamb? Especially a lamb with seven eyes as described in Revelation? The more one understands the languages and culture in which the Bible is written, the easier it is to decipher what's figurative and what's literal.



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26 May 2022, 10:50 am

A global flood is also described in Epic of Gilgamesh, so Bible is not the only one written source talking about that kind of worldwide calamity.


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IsabellaLinton
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26 May 2022, 11:18 am

klanka wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
This brings us back to the use of metaphors. ^
I'm really enjoying this conversation.
Thanks for the info, Matrix and klanka.


yw

How far do you take the events in the bible to be metaphors? You think it's all false?



In my opinion the Bible and other religious texts contain allegories.
They're works of ancient philosophy using metaphors to promote love and hope.
The events aren't meant to be interpreted literally.
Some characters and events may be based on historical fact, but that's inconsequential to me.
I read for the moral of the story or the main idea, not the plot or individual details.

In the Bible, the moral of the story is The Golden Rule.
We are taught to love our neighbours and to have compassion for all people.
That's all that matters to me.



naturalplastic
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26 May 2022, 2:56 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
klanka wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
This brings us back to the use of metaphors. ^
I'm really enjoying this conversation.
Thanks for the info, Matrix and klanka.


yw

How far do you take the events in the bible to be metaphors? You think it's all false?



In my opinion the Bible and other religious texts contain allegories.
They're works of ancient philosophy using metaphors to promote love and hope.
The events aren't meant to be interpreted literally.
Some characters and events may be based on historical fact, but that's inconsequential to me.
I read for the moral of the story or the main idea, not the plot or individual details.

In the Bible, the moral of the story is The Golden Rule.
We are taught to love our neighbours and to have compassion for all people.
That's all that matters to me.

The stories of the Bible are stories that contain truths (about the human condition, and moral conduct, etc).

Contain truths.

But they are not necessarily "true stories". Journalistic accounts of things that actually happened.

Except in some cases, almost by accident, some Biblical stories probably do contain some distorted kernals of historic truth as well. Like the "world flood" in Noah being a distorted memory of an actual regional flood in Mesopotamia (now Iraq) at some point in the distant past.



klanka
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26 May 2022, 3:13 pm

I think that the things that happened in the old testament mostly or all actually happened but were also metaphors. I have had things happen to me that are metaphors as well. Like I was having a conversation with someone who said something that happened to them was seedy, then she coughed up a seed she had tried eating earlier.

Like the passover actually happened but it was also a metaphor for the blood of Christ.



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26 May 2022, 3:57 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The stories of the Bible are stories that contain truths (about the human condition, and moral conduct, etc).

Contain truths.

But they are not necessarily "true stories". Journalistic accounts of things that actually happened.

Except in some cases, almost by accident, some Biblical stories probably do contain some distorted kernals of historic truth as well. Like the "world flood" in Noah being a distorted memory of an actual regional flood in Mesopotamia (now Iraq) at some point in the distant past.


The thing with the Bible (the New Testament in particular) is the continuance of history attached to it. A chain of writings from the apostles, then from those they taught directly, then from those taught by them and so on. I've heard the Bible has been used as a primary reference book for archeologists.



cyberdad
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26 May 2022, 4:16 pm

theidealist wrote:
A global flood is also described in Epic of Gilgamesh, so Bible is not the only one written source talking about that kind of worldwide calamity.


^^^ This. The earliest parts of the old testament talk of Abraham living in Ur of the Chaldees which of course was the capital of the Sumerian kingdom where the epic of Gilgamesh was written. There have been a number of books written about the migratory hebrews being refugees from the destruction of Ur by the babylonians sending them westward to both the land of the Phillistines (Palestine) and further west into Egypt where they were enslaved by Pharoah. The Sumerian speaking hebrews adopted the local dialect of the Philistines at the time which evolved into Aramaic which is indistinguishable from Arabic.

The myth of the flood was Sumerian and is not a metaphor, rather a memory of the end of the last ice age where sea levels rose and flooded the great cities that existed at the time, one of them of course known to the Egyptians and Greeks called Atlantis.



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27 May 2022, 3:43 am

In my experience growing up in the bible-belt & going to Catholic school, more than a few Catholics pick & chose which parts of the bible to interpret literally & which parts to dismiss. They tend to focus on the old testimate a lot more than the new. They believe that god flooded the earth to punish the sinners & disbelievers but they don't follow Jesus's preachings about helping the poor, healing the sick, or practicing forgivness :evil: There are PLENTY of EXCEPTIONS of corse


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klanka
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27 May 2022, 4:28 am

nick007 wrote:
In my experience growing up in the bible-belt & going to Catholic school, more than a few Catholics pick & chose which parts of the bible to interpret literally & which parts to dismiss. They tend to focus on the old testimate a lot more than the new. They believe that god flooded the earth to punish the sinners & disbelievers but they don't follow Jesus's preachings about helping the poor, healing the sick, or practicing forgivness :evil: There are PLENTY of EXCEPTIONS of corse

the verses about helping the poor etc. are in matthew mark and luke. Those 3 books describe how to get to heaven by your own works. The gospel of John says 'just believe' which is the real way. The Matthew Mark and Luke works based salvation is Jesus using a literary device as if he is talking to someone who is trying to earn heaven.
focussing on the old testament for how to live isn't right either though.



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27 May 2022, 5:13 am

nick007 wrote:
In my experience growing up in the bible-belt & going to Catholic school, more than a few Catholics pick & chose which parts of the bible to interpret literally & which parts to dismiss. They tend to focus on the old testimate a lot more than the new. They believe that god flooded the earth to punish the sinners & disbelievers but they don't follow Jesus's preachings about helping the poor, healing the sick, or practicing forgivness :evil: There are PLENTY of EXCEPTIONS of corse


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