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Fnord
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25 May 2022, 9:19 am

It is ironic that the one state with some of the toughest "Pro-Life" laws on the books should also have some of the most lenient gun-ownership laws as well; thus enabling a deranged teenager to purchase firearms and use them to commit a massacre in an elementary school.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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25 May 2022, 9:30 am

Fireblossom wrote:
and creating a system that takes better care of people's mental health.


A big, huge, overwhelming, question with that, is, how do you remedy the following?
:arrow: Note that the last shortage reference listed is from almost a decade ago.

"
AACAP Releases Workforce Maps Illustrating Severe Shortage of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists

Washington, DC, April 12, 2018 – The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP) has released updated workforce maps illustrating the severe national shortage of child and adolescent psychiatrists. The maps specifically show the rate of practicing child and adolescent psychiatrists per 100,000 children aged 0-17 years by county and the average age of child and adolescent psychiatrists per state.

National studies have consistently substantiated the magnitude of mental, emotional, or behavioral disorders in children and adolescents in the United States.
"
https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Press/Press ... _maps.aspx


"
Therapist Shortage Fuels Ongoing Crisis In Youth Mental Health
New England Public Media | By Ben James
Published April 15, 2021 at 7:27 PM EDT
"
https://www.nepm.org/regional-news/2021 ... tal-health

"
There’s a huge shortage of mental health providers for kids who need help
Picture of ChrisAnna Mink
By ChrisAnna Mink
May 06, 2019
"
https://centerforhealthjournalism.org/2 ... -need-help


"
Psychiatrist shortages leaves children untreated. Telehealth could help fill the gap.
By Zipei Lin and Taya White Dec 20, 2018
"
https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news ... 2a7ed.html


"
Shortage of psychiatrists, funding issues create crisis in mental health care
Blythe Bernhard Jan 18, 2014
"
WORSENING SHORTAGE

The national shortage of psychiatrists is only expected to get worse. More than half of psychiatrists are older than 55, unlike other higher-paying specialties like cardiology or orthopedics. In 2011, there were 16 psychiatry residency programs in the U.S. that did not fill their open spots, according to the National Institute of Mental Health.
"
https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/hea ... 60511.html


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magz
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25 May 2022, 9:42 am

Shouldn't we treat it as a public health issue and invest in publicly available child and adolescent psychiatry?


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25 May 2022, 9:43 am

There’s a HUGE shortage of mental health workers.My therapist took another job a year ago and they still haven’t replaced her.


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25 May 2022, 10:32 am

Addressing cause and effect of situations will lead to a cure .... reacting fanatically to single
events will perpetrate the violence . " It has been shown that radicalized people will figure out other weapons possibly equally if not more destructive " . Stop the madness ....
banning guns with the amount if guns on the street already will merely make for more victims at thhis point in time. Think this through please. The time for short term answers is past .
And these type of activities only breed drama and sensationalism . Things that feed the media monster to get ratings ....IMHO.


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Fnord
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25 May 2022, 10:38 am

Misslizard wrote:
There’s a HUGE shortage of mental health workers. . .
Would having a mental-health worker nearby have prevented this latest school shooting?  I have my doubts.

• He was a loner, having little or no social interaction that would have "raised a red flag" in somebody's mind.

• The shooter's school attendance was spotty, so a school counselor might have had little opportunity to intervene.

• He had moved out of his mother's house, so his mother had little opportunity to intervene.

• He had moved in with his grandmother, then killed her.

Basically, he had "dropped off the radar" of anyone who could have / should have / would have helped him.



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25 May 2022, 10:50 am

Fnord wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
There’s a HUGE shortage of mental health workers. . .
Would having a mental-health worker nearby have prevented this latest school shooting?  I have my doubts.

• He was a loner, having little or no social interaction that would have "raised a red flag" in somebody's mind.

• The shooter's school attendance was spotty, so a school counselor might have had little opportunity to intervene.

• He had moved out of his mother's house, so his mother had little opportunity to intervene.

• He had moved in with his grandmother, then killed her.

Basically, he had "dropped off the radar" of anyone who could have / should have / would have helped him.

Not at that exact moment, but the school or his family should have referred him to one way before this happened.It was obvious he was a troubled young man.


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Fnord
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25 May 2022, 10:54 am

Misslizard wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
There’s a HUGE shortage of mental health workers. . .
Would having a mental-health worker nearby have prevented this latest school shooting?  I have my doubts.

• He was a loner, having little or no social interaction that would have "raised a red flag" in somebody's mind.

• The shooter's school attendance was spotty, so a school counselor might have had little opportunity to intervene.

• He had moved out of his mother's house, so his mother had little opportunity to intervene.

• He had moved in with his grandmother, then killed her.

Basically, he had "dropped off the radar" of anyone who could have / should have / would have helped him.

Not at that exact moment, but the school or his family should have referred him to one way before this happened.  It was obvious he was a troubled young man.
Yes . . . one troubled young man out of a community of (perhaps) hundreds.

The problem is, if no one in authority actually witnesses the negative behavior of the victim or the bullies, no one in authority is likely to intervene.

If every male teenager who walks by members of the school staff keeps his head down and his mouth shut, then how are the staff members to know which one is more troubled than the others?



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25 May 2022, 11:02 am

Fnord wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
There’s a HUGE shortage of mental health workers. . .
Would having a mental-health worker nearby have prevented this latest school shooting?  I have my doubts.

• He was a loner, having little or no social interaction that would have "raised a red flag" in somebody's mind.

• The shooter's school attendance was spotty, so a school counselor might have had little opportunity to intervene.

• He had moved out of his mother's house, so his mother had little opportunity to intervene.

• He had moved in with his grandmother, then killed her.

Basically, he had "dropped off the radar" of anyone who could have / should have / would have helped him.

Not at that exact moment, but the school or his family should have referred him to one way before this happened.  It was obvious he was a troubled young man.
Yes . . . one troubled young man out of a community of (perhaps) hundreds.

The problem is, if no one in authority actually witnesses the negative behavior of the victim or the bullies, no one in authority is likely to intervene.

If every male teenager who walks by members of the school staff keeps his head down and his mouth shut, then how are the staff members to know which one is more troubled than the others?

That is when people should speak out if they have concerns.The fact that he self harmed ,came to school that way , and wasn’t referred to counseling speaks volumes.


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Fnord
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25 May 2022, 11:08 am

Misslizard wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
There’s a HUGE shortage of mental health workers. . .
Would having a mental-health worker nearby have prevented this latest school shooting?  I have my doubts.

• He was a loner, having little or no social interaction that would have "raised a red flag" in somebody's mind.

• The shooter's school attendance was spotty, so a school counselor might have had little opportunity to intervene.

• He had moved out of his mother's house, so his mother had little opportunity to intervene.

• He had moved in with his grandmother, then killed her.

Basically, he had "dropped off the radar" of anyone who could have / should have / would have helped him.

Not at that exact moment, but the school or his family should have referred him to one way before this happened.  It was obvious he was a troubled young man.
Yes . . . one troubled young man out of a community of (perhaps) hundreds.

The problem is, if no one in authority actually witnesses the negative behavior of the victim or the bullies, no one in authority is likely to intervene.

If every male teenager who walks by members of the school staff keeps his head down and his mouth shut, then how are the staff members to know which one is more troubled than the others?
That is when people should speak out if they have concerns.  The fact that he self harmed, came to school that way, and wasn’t referred to counseling speaks volumes.
"These scratches?  Nothing, sir . . . I was playing with my cat!"

Again, unless the school counselor actually witnesses aberrant behavior, he or she is unlikely to drop everything and intervene just on someone else's say-so, and when the individual has a reasonable excuse for the cuts and bruises, the counselors have even less incentive to act.

Yeah, I know . . . they should; but who is going to tell them?  By the time I reached high school, I had developed a deep mis-trust of school faculty and staff.  It is easy for me to imagine that most other "troubled" kids would too.



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25 May 2022, 11:34 am

/\Didn't he tell other students he did it to himself?Someone should have taken that seriously, most people that self harm hide it.That was an obvious cry for help.


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25 May 2022, 11:56 am

The human race is never going to solve its problems with bullying because deep down it still thinks people who are bullied deserve it because they're "inferior". Humans are no different from groups of apes and monkeys in the wild that are abusive to the members that are smaller, weaker, or less aggressive. The only difference is that they don't end up shooting the whole tribe.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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25 May 2022, 12:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
There’s a HUGE shortage of mental health workers. . .
[color=black]Would having a mental-health worker nearby have prevented this latest school shooting?  I have my doubts.


If someone actively rejects engagement with mental health workers as this guy rejected engagement with the adult male in his life that answer would most likely be No.

"
Juan Alvarez, 62, who has been in a relationship with Ramos’ mother for about a year and lives with her, said Ramos had a tumultuous relationship with his mother that often included fights.

Alvarez said Ramos left his mother’s home two months ago to live with his grandmother after he got into an intense argument with his mother after she disconnected the Wi-Fi.

He added that Ramos would shut down and leave whenever he tried to initiate a conversation.

“He was kind of a weird one. I never got along with him. I never socialized with him. He doesn’t talk to nobody,” he said. “When you try to talk to him he’d just sit there and walk away.”
"

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/te ... -rcna30495

Now, granted, there likely is a specific relationship issue factor in play there but we do have it reported that the Buffalo shooter, I think it was, flat out lied to adults about his mental and physical states.


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Last edited by kitesandtrainsandcats on 25 May 2022, 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fnord
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25 May 2022, 1:13 pm

Misslizard wrote:
/\Didn't he tell other students he did it to himself?  Someone should have taken that seriously, most people that self-harm hide it.  That was an obvious cry for help.
In high-school culture, nobody likes a snitch.  Besides, being scratched in the face by a cat seems plausible, too.

So, "obvious"?  Maybe in retrospect, but perhaps not at the time to an 18-year old mind.



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25 May 2022, 1:18 pm

This is going to be a unpopular thing to write but will put it out there anyhow :

This situation presented as a lack of mental health pros. Needs evaluation ...Have had my share of experiences with so called pros and found them overall , with the exception of a few. Not to be present for their patients ( be it overworked or whatever . Both in the public and private settings .)
These people need to undergo yearly testing for their capability levels , and Put on leave status until they can measure up to standards .
Now come the rough part : If a person or couple wishes to engage in raising children , having a baby .
It would raise the responsibility level of the parent . to undergo a manditory schooling prior to giving
birth . For child rearing . And at least one follow up class after birth or adoption within a year and a
thorough evalution . I have personal experience with at least 3 sets of parents that actually realized they could raise their child to behave as a psychopath in society. Totally seperate from each other.
And saw results as they grew , that strongly indicated they were following directly in their parents footsteps . And their parents reinforced this behaviour without consequences . Apparently
encouraging it further . Inspite of at least one familys children havng spent time in prison .
Then assisting in furthering their criminal careers, afterwards .Seen this in Calif . and in Missouri .
This would allow the mental health community to intervene very early in a childs development .
This action : using the money spent on lawyers and anti- this or anti that , Would also free up budgets concerning prisons , as early intervention would most likely reduce prison population .
certain classes concerning civics and ethics could be brought back into elementary schooling to reinforce positive social behaviour . Perhaps manditory for early parents as well.
Basically the idea to treat the cause , not the " after the fact behaviour ."
Some sort of very gentle early intervention at the family level . Might turn this stuff around :idea:


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Misslizard
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25 May 2022, 1:27 pm

Fnord wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
/\Didn't he tell other students he did it to himself?  Someone should have taken that seriously, most people that self-harm hide it.  That was an obvious cry for help.
In high-school culture, nobody likes a snitch.  Besides, being scratched in the face by a cat seems plausible, too.

So, "obvious"?  Maybe in retrospect, but perhaps not at the time to an 18-year old mind.

Snitches wind up in ditches, or so they say here.
That’s why you have anonymous tip lines.He told other students he did it to himself because he thought it looked cool.He was unpopular ,so probably no one cared that the weird kid was scratching himself.
He also had a low attendance in school, if that happens here ,a social worker comes calling wondering why.All absences need a valid excuse ,like a doctors note etc..no more notes from parents that little Billy has the sniffles.


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