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bheid
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26 Feb 2008, 10:36 am

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All I know is I am me. And I am here. And I am always me despite what happens to the world around me.


no; you think you think, therefore you think you are. your brain could be playing memory tricks on you, and be confabulating memories regarding your identity. twenty years ago you could have been a serial killer or something, and are blocking it out. not even you are certain.

if mathe is so certain, give me the last digit of Pi... :wink:



D1nk0
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26 Feb 2008, 11:24 am

bheid wrote:
Quote:
All I know is I am me. And I am here. And I am always me despite what happens to the world around me.


no; you think you think, therefore you think you are. your brain could be playing memory tricks on you, and be confabulating memories regarding your identity. twenty years ago you could have been a serial killer or something, and are blocking it out. not even you are certain.

if mathe is so certain, give me the last digit of Pi... :wink:


The last digit of Pi does NOT exist-and that IS Certain :D . No you say "you think you think", well how about: I think that I think that I think...



Asha
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26 Feb 2008, 2:33 pm

I was just playing with my thoughts - no need to go serious! I don't know much about maths save what I know intuitively. I wasn't expecting to get a maths conversation going. :?

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Logic is independent of perception, in fact its independent of physical reality. Where do you come up with this bullshit sophistry?

Sophistry - a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning (Dictionary.com) :o Well at least it's 'sophistry' even if it is 'bullshit' to you. Though I cannot do other than live my life by logic I sometimes think that logic isn't real. The universe doesn't have to abide to logic and since humans created logic how can it be independent.

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However, 1+1 Is ALWAYS EQUAL TO 2 ! !

:) If one person calls a 1 a 3 and one person calls a 1 a 1 then to the first 1 + 1 = 6 and to the second it is 2. How much is 1 anyway? Where does the 1 end? One orange is one orange but where does the orange become the air and where does the air become the table yet an orange is not a table. Would 1 exist if there was none to count it? D1nkO, you were right. 'bullshit sophistry' might sum up my ideas nicely.


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Mathematical principles govern physical law

Humans made the laws of mathematics. Humans did not create physical phenomena. It seems more likely that physics governs mathematics - although it is really exciting that mathematics seems to describe physics so well.

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your brain could be playing memory tricks on you
Since when is 'my brain' not 'me'?



D1nk0
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26 Feb 2008, 3:58 pm

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Humans made the laws of mathematics. Humans did not create physical phenomena. It seems more likely that physics governs mathematics - although it is really exciting that mathematics seems to describe physics so well.



Actually, experiments from physics suggest that physics is governed by mathematical principles. The contruction of 0 and 1 can be done using the axioms of ZFC set theory-its called Peano Arithmetic.



bheid
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27 Feb 2008, 3:52 am

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your brain could be playing memory tricks on you
Since when is 'my brain' not 'me'?[/quote]

Your brain's the enemy of you, you know; it tries to make you rational. It's also all you are. 'Tis a paradox! A paradox, I say!



D1nk0
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27 Feb 2008, 12:10 pm

bheid wrote:
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your brain could be playing memory tricks on you
Since when is 'my brain' not 'me'?


Your brain's the enemy of you, you know; it tries to make you rational. It's also all you are. 'Tis a paradox! A paradox, I say![/quote]

:lol: (BTW, FYI, I'm laughing AT you and not 'with' you)



bheid
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27 Feb 2008, 12:12 pm

I was being silly... :P



Brittany2907
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27 Feb 2008, 7:41 pm

Asha wrote:
How can I know that other people see 16 minutes as I see 16 minutes?


You can't know...you will never know. No matter how much a persons brain is studied...I DON'T THINK that you can measure a persons perception of time. Well...thats in my opinion.


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Phagocyte
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01 Mar 2008, 7:47 pm

Asha wrote:
If one person calls a 1 a 3 and one person calls a 1 a 1 then to the first 1 + 1 = 6 and to the second it is 2. How much is 1 anyway? Where does the 1 end? One orange is one orange but where does the orange become the air and where does the air become the table yet an orange is not a table. Would 1 exist if there was none to count it?


Well, what we decide to call the integers is completely arbitrary. You can call one "six" or you could call one "a papaya," it doesn't matter, but the values that they represent are objective truths. Let's look at a physical interpretation, you have one rock, and one rock, and adding them together, you have two rocks. Call the numbers whatever they want, but what you call them is merely symbolic of the objective truths that they represent.


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wolphin
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03 Mar 2008, 6:28 am

There's a major but subtle difference between syntactic truth and semantic truth: i.e., what is true because it must be true by the rules of the language and symbols we work in, and what is true because of the meaning we assign to those symbols.

Ultimately, we have to start from somewhere, where we fix some components of the language to specific meanings and let the rest sort of "float" undefined. For example, consider assigning the usual meaning to equals, but leave unspecified what any other symbols "mean"

Then, for example, a statement like "1+1 = 2" or "1 + 1 = 6" cannot be considered "true" or "false", since we have not assigned any meaning to the symbols +, 1, 2, or 6 - I could come up with some assignment that makes the first true and the second false, or vise versa.

However, consider statements like "1 = 1" or "6 = 6" or "(1 + 1) = (1 + 1)". Regardless of the meaning we assign to +, 1, or 6, as long as we are consistent, these statements must always be true: I could pick "1" to mean 5 and "6" to mean 1, and "+" to mean multiply, and the statements must still always be true.

By choosing the behavior certain symbols such as "not", "logically implies", "equals", and "for all" to mean what you expect them to mean, you can confidently state the truth of an enormous number of statements, regardless of what, for example "1" or "+" mean. (This is actually a result from Godel which precedes his incompleteness theorem)



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03 Mar 2008, 3:37 pm

The infinite corridors of time topic

Time is best understood as a comparison. I know time has elapsed if an object is different in the next viewing. However, this is not foolproof. You might ask what if the object has not visibly changed? This does not mean time has not elapsed. Change can be subtle, and at the molecular/subatomic level. I always thought of movement as a sort of time experience.

In ordinary life we use clocks to measure the passage of time. Common sense, I suppose. Most of us would be lost if not for clocks.

Asha, I know you were asking a deeper question. Phagocyte is on the right track, of time, pardon the pun.


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