This guy pissed me off

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Well it seams as if there is some miscommunication here. I am outraged at the fact that someone can think being overweight is healthy, if your overweight Im fine (I have lots of overweight friends and you dont see me yelling at them). Dont give me this BS "Being fat is fine and healthy" if we didnt have computers and all this non physical activitys everyone would be ripped like a brick house and we wouldn't have hundreds of "Oh so deadly and preventable" diseases directly related to someone not being able to push away from the table. Simply put, if you wanna be fit you have to bust ass, this isnt just for overweight people, my friend is really skinny and he wants to put some meat on I said I would work out with him, but what he doesnt get is that if you want to be strong you HAVE to bust ass, no ones going to do it. I have asthma and when I see kids use that as a crutch for not working hard I laugh so hard, If you think I have no experiance and therefore have no right to talk think again, my asthma used to be terrible to the point that a jog in warm weather would nearly kill me, but I worked hard on endurance and now I can out bike/run/row/leg lift almost every person near and a over my age group. Unless you have kidney failure and and are a paraplegic don't pull this "Its not my fault its genetics, crap".

I part of HAES, Healthy Activity & Eating at every Size, is learning to listen to your body. If you're not up to exercising that day, there's no need to push it. If you feel like eating more or less during a day, so be it. We have gotten so far out of touch with intuitive eating and listening to our bodies, that we feel the right way to be healthy is listening to a broad statement that everyone should exercise 30 minutes a day. That's optimal, does it mean that will work out for everyone no.

There is far to much propaganda from the media in regards to how people should live and eat, not that this is anything new. However, there is constantly the same repeated message that loosing weight is healthy for everyone. It's ridiculous to suggest that anyone can diagnose what is good for each person's body, there are far too many variables. So now we have a society that equates healthy eating and intuitively listening to your body as lazy, where as people who exercise each day like a machine and eat like they are a machine, are good.

The body isn't a machine. It's organic, and everyone has different bodies and different needs for exercise and diet. This article illustrates just how much of a buisiness health has become:

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/200 ... do-it.html

It's no longer about real health, it's about how much money you can scam out of people in the name of guarenteeing good health. No different than what a snakes oil salesman would do.

I eat healthy, I'm not so good at exercise. This doesn't mean I'm at death's door, nor does it mean there's something horribly wrong with me as a human being. I'm fat, and the same goes for that, being fat does not mean I fail as a human being. What is being a bad human is hurting others in the pursuit of a unrealistic ideal, and tearing those down who are secure enough with themselves not to fall into that pattern.

I am thin and I certainly am not struggling to stay thin. I do eat and I love sweet. I don't eat lot of food and I certainly do not look like I am from concentration camp. Sometimes I do feel fat when I see other people who are thinner than me but I always tell myself their bodies are built different and my bone structure is bigger than their bones. I have no desire to look like a model and be skin and bones. Now that my work has been cut back, I am going to need to walk outside for at least a half hour to get my exercise. Everyone needs at least a half hour of exercise everyday. It's a fact I read.

I also see lot of fat people but I don't have anything against them. What they do is their business and their own problem. I don't assume they over eat because I don't know if they have a medical problem but I do know the majority of them eat the wrong foods or over eat because that is exactly why obesity has increased over the years. I have seen it on videos. I find it hard to believe a doctor would tell their obese patient they are healthy instead of telling them they are at risk and what foods they need to eat. Anyone that is 30 lbs overweight is considered obese my boyfriend told me so in that case, that means he is too.

Some people have disabilities. Perhaps you are on the wrong website to be pushing such a hard-nosed, hard line regarding obesity.

A lot of AS people do not have the coordination to have an easy time being athletic. And navigating the system to figure out where to go and how to begin fitness training is not any easier than any other thing that AS people might have to deal with in life. And maybe this is not the only thing the person has to deal with right now.

When you condemn and judge people, you make a lot of assumptions that maybe aren't applicable to the person's situation.

Yes it's a fact, from people who most likely based that fact off of surveys, or a correlation study. Like other so-called "facts" that have been claimed to make everyone instantly healthier, or like they ate the invincibility star from Super Mario. Guess what, you don't exercise half an hour each day, you don't drop dead. But how can that be possible, people exclaim! It's like I said, everyone has different bodies, everyone's bodies need different amounts of exercise and food to be healthy..and if you don't exercise that much your body compensates by giving you less appetite.

You're just proving more of my point, that we've become so distant from listening to what our bodies tell us, that now we're listening to "facts" created by scientists who don't even know us. Your health should be a matter between you and your doctor, and perhaps your family, but otherwise it's nobody's damn buisiness. That goes for everyone here who has been trying to educate me like I'm some stupid insolent child, who doesn't know how to take care of themselves.

Here's a reality check. Fat people most likely know much more about health then a good majority of people. We have to know it, because everyday we're told that because we're fat, we must be doing something wrong. You cannot tell someone's health by simply looking at them, and I'm sure you'd be completely surprised at how many "healthy" thin people eat junk, or aren't exercising perfectly either. Yet they do not get the same interrigation as to what they eat, how much they exercise, like fat people do. Therfore the Obesity Hysteria not only harms fat people it harms thin people too. It leads them into the false belief that because they were born thin, they can go merrily through life without a narry about what they put into their body.

So please, show me where you found this "fact". I'll show you that it's merely something that was created based on evidence that has little to do with actual people's health or experience. Just unverified studies and correlation statistics.

What upsets me about this is that children have to grow up in this society, where adults are constantly preaching messages of terror about death and dying, if one isn't a puritan about their health. Do you think it's healthy for them?

I worked out every day when I was 18 and 19 and I didn't drop dead. I even worked out an hour every day when I was 18.


Like I said, I don't have anything against people being fat because it's their own business. They're people too and have feelings. My own mother is overweight and she doesn't eat much food either. My whole boyfriend's family is overweight except for the kids and I don't really care. But the 12 year old has a tummy sticking out like she is pregnant.

About the fact I saw, I read it somewhere in a magazine.


My mother didn't allow me to eat lot of sweets. I wasn't allowed to sneak junk food out of the cupboard. She made my brothers and I eat healthy when we were growing up. She would cook food and we would eat it. None of us suffered. But yet we were allowed to eat Halloween candy and candy we get in our stockings and from Easter. We were allowed to over stuff ourselves over the holidays. But yes we were told to not eat our candy when dinner be coming because she didn't want us to spoil our appetites. We were not allowed dessert before dinner. We weren't required to finish our food to get dessert but we had to eat enough of it to get it. if we had birthday cake left over, we had to ask if we can have a piece. Was I pressured? No. I didn't feel any unhappy about food, why? Because I can't miss what I never had. I was used to the structure because I have had it my whole life growing up. Yes our mother also asked us what we like for lunch or dinner. That is how kids learn to make decisions. You ask what they like for supper or what they want for lunch. Same as when you take them out to eat or fast food, especially when you order a pizza.


Are you against kids doing PE?

What magazine, some chick mag like Vogue, or how to get slim and trim in x number of days. I am against kids doing PE, cause it involves them in competitive sports where someone has to be the loser and have their self esteem harmed. What I am for are places like Discovery Zone and Chuck E Cheese were kids can run around like maniacs and have fun. Yes, despite popular opinon, kids actually do have a natural tendency to run around with the speed of Sonic the Hedgehog, and naturally find exercise.

Violet, I've been reading along - and while I know that weight has affected my health negatively, there are those who are very healthy and defy every stereotype that society throws out about obesity. However, your comment against physical education really set me off. Competition is not unhealthy; as a teacher, I've had more issues with those who were molly-coddled than those who were too competitive... and in a survival situation, competition is essential. Places where kids are consuming massive amount of fats and sugar aren't healthy, and while children need fats to develop and grow properly there is balance in all things. You can rage at me if you like, but to discourage physical activity because of competition? In a matter of a few hundred years, our twenty-five year olds are less mature and less capable of dealing with situations than seven year olds were once held accountable to be. No more walking to school or to work, no more physical labor as part of keeping a home, now place them in a desk for eight hours a day and further take away what little mandated activity there is for children that have no habits developed to help them. In order to get a job, you have to compete. To find a mate, you have to compete. What you're advocating is not something I can condone in any way. I'm fuming right now, as I find that concept an approach of appeasement. Rage if you like, but I've been both obese and unhealthy. Sometimes the two -are- related, or in the least co-contributing. My goal isn't to meet an arbitrary number, but to be able to climb flights of stairs without running out of breath, to feel comfortable in my own body, to live longer and spend better time with the woman I love. I understand the sensitivity that one develops when their weight does not conform to social standards, but I feel that you're going too far in defending those who would be best served by learning to defend themselves instead of being kept in protection that cannot be sustained for life.


M.

I never discouraged physical activity. I am discouraging competition based physical activity, and I find that there will be a rare situation where a child would be lost in the wood for months, need to know how to eat bugs and fight with others for food. Unless they're starting up Survivor Kids Edition, and I wasn't aware of it. I was suggesting the kids would have more fun at places that involve physical activity that is enjoyable without the conflict of competition like Discovery Zone and Chuck E Cheese, you remember the tube mazes? Those are fun, and it's not something you can sit still and be involved with, you have to be moving. Perhaps it was that clarification was needed.

Twenty minutes of scrambling in plastic tubes after ingesting pizza and soda does -not- count as physical activity. Perhaps you're more of an optimist than I am, but the future isn't bright and full of roses, and they need to know how to compete. How to expect and demand more of themselves - which isn't happening anywhere anymore, from what I have observed... I encounter students who have these traits, but they are few and far between now as opposed to ten years ago. Competition is not conflict; this is something that adults place on it, giving it some sort of permanent meaning instead of what it is - a result, a point of evaluation and comparison. I appreciate the clarification, but I still disagree with the premise. I don't advocate forcing kids to abuse themselves, but there are countless opportunities for exercise. Being a part of one of the marching bands I've been part of teaching, for example, was too challenging for some kids who went to play baseball instead. Having higher expectation is a good thing, not a bad thing - lowest common denominator education has to go.


M.

So you say a child who has learned how it is to hate one's self through means of competition and losing, will do better in the world then a child who has grow up secure within themselves and their abilities?

Also, most children I see scramble around in tubes far longer than 20 minutes.

I only read Seventeen. I like the embarrassing stories in it and reading about Real Life section.I used to read Teen but I don't get them anymore. The others, I'll pass. Fashion is boring.
I also read Parenting magazines when I see one and yes, they also say the same thing about exercise. They saw how important it is for kids to get it and what parents can do to make it fun. They were saying do activities together. Well, that's what my family did with us. Sometimes we go for bike rides and did we suffer? No. We liked it. Well my little brother got tired. We would stop at the playground and play and have our lunches they packed.
We also went to places and that was how we got our exercise because we walked. Yes, our mother took us kids to Discovery Zone when I was 7-9. I also loved PE as a kid because I loved the games we played. As I got older, I started to hate it because it became sports. Whatever happened to crab soccer, floor hockey, tennis with balloons, freeze tag, traffic jam, clean out the backyard, and of course getting across the gym without touching the floor (You had to use mats and scooters), etc. Yes the teachers make PE fun for little kids but as they get older, they make it more serious and bam I hated it. Lot of kids hated it in my school. It made PE even more hell for me because they wouldn't participate. Thank god it was no longer required when you are in 11th grade and a senior in high school. I didn't take it in a heart beat, I did track though.

Whatever you felt as a kid about PE and other stuff, it doesn't mean that's how other kids feel about PE and other things they do.

But I do agree about people and eating disorders. They look at models and celebs and compare them to themselves and think they are fat when they are not. So they go on a crash diet and exercise excessively. In Hollywood, you have to wear a size 0 to be thin. If you don't wear that size, you are considered fat. But in the healthy community, if you wear a size 12, you are still healthy and still considered thin.

I watched a show on VH1 about celebrates and eating disorders. They are so pressured to be thin, they are starving themselves. They would eat a full meal and go right to working out until all the calories were burned off. They even exercise for a few hours everyday. That is unhealthy. Even doctors would say that is too much. What to celeb moms do after they have a baby? Go right to working out to get rid of the baby weight.
Look at Hilary Duff. She looked fine. Sure she had a little guy sticking out, I figured she could lose some weight to look better but she was not fat. But on the IMDB board about her and in movies she has been in, lot of people were saying she is fat and ugly. Then one day, I saw she had gotten very thin and looked unhealthy but it was in one of those magazines where they make up stories so I didn't beleive it until I saw it in another magazine. I don't blame her though. She was probably pressured and got sick and tired of the bashing she was getting from the internet, she decided she wanted to change it and got real skinny. Even doctors would say she is extremely unhealthy.


Thin people also get crap. Some of them get so pressured, they try to gain weight by snacking on junk food. But sometimes they have so high metabolisms, they just can't put on the weight, especially if they are athletic because they do sports or they are always doing things that require them to move around. They aren't sitting in front of the TV all day or the computer.

I have heard from thin people and about them about crap they get from people. They were so thin, people assumed they had an eating disorder even though they ate a lot of food. When I lived in Montana, I knew a co worker who got crap in high school. People thought she had an eating disorder and they followed her to the bathroom every time after lunch because they thought she threw up her food. But no she always had to go to the bathroom after lunch. She even tried to gain weight too but she could never put on a pound, no matter how much she ate.
I can even remember my high school English teacher telling us a story about someone she knew and how that girl also got crap from people. They all thought she had an eating disorder and she also ate like a pig. Did not throw up her food.

See it's not just fat people who suffer from people's judgments, thin people get it too.
I don't ever assume someone has an eating disorder just because they are fat or very thin. I don't even assume someone is lazy because they are fat. If they are out of the house walking around, that should tell everyone they don't sit around all day in front of the telly junking on food. They are outside doing something or why else would they be out in public?

I think that in this case, you might have an inaccurate view of what team sports and athletics consists of. Just as people who despise obese people think that they should hate their physical condition. Team sports and athletics isn't about hate and low self-esteem.

Once again, you're making stuff up. He never said anything about weeding people out. You are being completely inflammatory.



This statement would make sense if the following statements had ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I SAID. But they don't:



Where did I advocate yo-yo dieting? Why do I need to research this, if I never presented any ignorance towards this specific subject?

In fact, when did I advocate dieting altogether? I advocated a lifestyle. Once again, you're making stuff up.



Since I advocate good health, I would not advocate such a thing.



When did I advocate gastric bypass? When did I advocate sacrificing health for appearances? ONCE AGAIN, YOU'RE MAKING STUFF UP.



Not my problem. My point is that the vast majority of causes for obesity and stubborn fat is environmental. It's been VERY CLEAR.



Yes it does. An unbalanced burning-to-eating ratio is unhealthy behavior. Unhealthy behavior means you are being unhealthy, and being unhealthy means you are unhealthy. This is painfully obvious, and you're looking to contradict me where you cannot.

If industry creates unhealthy food on a mass level, it makes the individual unhealthy. This is all completely related. This is very, very simple logic.



You asked me a vague question about health, so I gave a basic source of information about health. You cannot blame me for you being extremely vague. The information about estrogen is basic: estrogen causes the storage of fat. Estrogen and estrogen-behaving chemicals are excessively in the food supply. I can get specific with you, but like I said, a simple google search ought to suffice. This is very elementary kind of stuff.



You are incorrect. Violet_yoshi called people prejudice without grounding. I gave information about how estrogen makes people store excess fat, and how there is something you can do about it. She called me prejudice and said nothing about the information I gave. You obviously haven't paid attention.



This is ridiculous. You are agreeing with somebody who implied I suggested these things when I never did, ever. I advocated a balanced diet free of these chemicals that cause the excess storage of fat and other health problems. Refrain from posting until you actually understand what is happening.



Provide quote where I have been bigoted. Right now. You are taking somebody's word for it, and that person is lying.



PROVIDE QUOTES WHERE WE HAVE BEEN BIGOTED. RIGHT NOW.



Ok, now you back peddle again...

It is a legitimate fear. Also, as a political radical, it's important for me to boycott and not be a complacent, unthinking, and unmotivated individual

I never yelled (not possible on the internet) and I never complained. I merely gave the information. These hormones effect people in different ways; many males get female fat development, although not to the point of obesity. We digest things differently, and our metabolisms work differently. This is (mostly, once again, a word you've seemed to overlook) because some people are more sensitive to these chemicals than others. However, all humans have evolved around a nature based diet, and our systems handle those sources with much less diversity.



It's an indication of an unhealthy mind that you keep bringing this up when nobody talked about this...

The only thing that's been mentioned is that, in the vast majority of cases, obesity is a sign that there's something wrong. This could be a medical problem. It could be a side effect of medicine. However, more often than not, there's something wrong with what you're eating, or you're living a sedentary lifestyle. Most fat people who say they've "tried everything" really haven't tried everything, but they rather took bad advice and followed conventional wisdom, which is incorrect. Most haven't looked at the hormonal effects of the food they're eating, which is a huge cause of that stubborn fat they complain about. It's not that they didn't try, it's that they have been poisoned.



This is ridiculous. You don't know what you're talking about. I never said anything offensive. Just because someone is offended doesn't mean they ought to be offended. I rarely post here. I rarely lurk here. I don't care about the social cliques. I'm an anarchist, I busy myself with obscure philosophical concepts you've probably never heard of, and I dissent from common thinking in just about every way. You have no basis for these claims. Weren't you just complaining that I did that?

PROVIDE EVIDENCE THAT THE SITUATION IS AS YOU DESCRIBE. Quote it. You people keep saying we were mean or bigoted, but you never provide EVIDENCE. It should be in this thread, shouldn't it?



I am outraged by the behavior of you people. You should be ashamed of yourselves for talking like this. I never said ANYTHING prejudiced, I never attacked ANYONE for their weight, and yet you keep talking as if I have. PROVIDE EVIDENCE!

Given my experience with children, they compete naturally - it's the adults who have problems with losing and create pressure. There are kids who don't respond to competition - that's not a bad thing, but I will can it foolish and asinine to eliminate competition to cater to those, while as a teacher I see great improvement when a child competes... the greatest when they learn to compete with themselves instead of the standards of others. But all things in stages. Also, given the 'pack' structure that exists in humanity, one who does not compete does not display what they have to offer to 'packs' or 'tribes'. Yes, I'm resorting to primitive concepts - but given the difficulty in interpretation I have, they've served me well as practical guidelines in societal function. We learn from winning, we learn from losing, we learn from helping each other succeed. You're suggesting ridding them of competition in exercise... what's next, in learning? I've already seen the death of the bell curve and the devaluation of the grade point average as a teacher - last thing I want is LESS expected of these kids.

Answer me this - how does a child who has never competed learn their abilities? Expand them? Learn how they compare to another, and how they can be better? I'm all in favor of not being discriminatory based on weight and size, but I'm not going to say that every person who is overweight should be, and is healthy being there, and change the system to make it easier to not try, not give any effort, and disappear into the mist. To me, it reads like aspiring to mediocrity... bollocks.


M.

Well, right from the same post of yours:



What do you mean by "you people". Would that be "fat people" or "autistic people"? Is there any context in which the phrase "you people" can be used in a non-bigoted fashion?



Well, here is one example, from the same post: