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HarraArial
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25 Sep 2011, 9:56 pm

Ahh, welcome to the world of "Female cattiness" or "Female bitchiness" or whatever you wanna call it.

It's rumoured to have started because, well, women in general are percieved to be the fairer sex, and from that comes things that are valued to females: A nurturing personality, passiveness, and never misbehaving. However, women have just as much aggression as men, but we are not afforded the luxuries of physical fighting. So NT women turn to their specialty: Social bonds.

Women (even some Aspie women) are highly social creatures, while men have the instinctual "Fight or flight" reaction, women have a "Tend and befriend" reaction. If we can't "dominate" them through taking care of them, we try to get them on our side. Some Aspie women are actually very skilled at this-- perhaps not as much as our NT counterparts, but pretty skiled as opposed to our stereotype-diagnosis behaviours.

Now, while men would actively shun someone who is physically weaker than them, women shun those who are socially weaker than them. Thus, we Aspie girls get the cruel-end of the female society stick. Often, this manifests in gossiping, passive-aggressiveness, and some outright bullying (usually left at verbal, and usually not tracable.)

~~~

Now, the other end of things. There are all sorts of reasons for the "Rift" between NT and Aspie females.

1.) Social masks vs. "Keeping it real"- I've not met many AS girls who see the point in "pretending to be someone they're not". Generally, this manifests itself not only in personality, but in manner of dress, makeup (or the lack thereof, I've noted), so on, and so forth. Unfortunately, people do judge on the looks of others. So an NT girl sees an Aspie girl in a T-shirt and jeans, no makeup, and her hair in a ponytail. An AS girl sees the Neurotypical in various "fashionable" clothes, a generous amount of makeup, and hair that clearly takes a few hours to straighten each morning.

AS thinks: "Fake. Poser. Valley Girl"
NT thinks: "Weird. Doesn't take care of herself. Unsociable"

So on and so forth.

2.) In the female world of social nuance, it's really the NT girls we should pity. Neuro"evolution" has occured since we were in the caves. If someone didn't act normally, you figured that they were sick, or that their genes are damaged somehow. Society isn't to blame here, we are wired to keep from too closely associating with the physically and mentally disabled. Feeling uncomfortable around them is an impulse that most people have to work to supress. In this case, "evolution" is running its course, and making it an impulse for NT girls to avoid us. Our "Social genes" are "damaged", so the impulses go off in their brains to avoid us.

Et cetera, and so forth. I could go on with reasons like this all day. But I do hope this gets the point across~


Disclaimer- I am using gross over-generalizations. I'm not saying every NT or Aspie woman I've been using to make my points actually act like this. I've met many wonderful NT woman, and I've met my share of reprehensible Aspie women. So please, do not think of our NT sisters as "The Enemy". We don't have "Enemies" (and if we do, we're completely going about this all wrong!) So please, just take my words as generalizations, not the Word of Law. Thank you, and good night~


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Ai_Ling
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26 Sep 2011, 1:03 am

HarraArial wrote:
Ahh, welcome to the world of "Female cattiness" or "Female bitchiness" or whatever you wanna call it.

It's rumoured to have started because, well, women in general are percieved to be the fairer sex, and from that comes things that are valued to females: A nurturing personality, passiveness, and never misbehaving. However, women have just as much aggression as men, but we are not afforded the luxuries of physical fighting. So NT women turn to their specialty: Social bonds.


Yeah, the fairer sex. See I would tell my guy friend about all the bitchyness that goes on with me and a few girls. And he was just laughing at me the other night because he had initially judged us to be nice, quiet, sweet and caring. He didnt realize the the "other side" of all the nice, sweetness. Hell yeah, women are just as aggressive as men but its a hell lot more subtler.

Quote:
Some Aspie women are actually very skilled at this-- perhaps not as much as our NT counterparts, but pretty skiled as opposed to our stereotype-diagnosis behaviours.


really they are?

Quote:
Now, while men would actively shun someone who is physically weaker than them, women shun those who are socially weaker than them. Thus, we Aspie girls get the cruel-end of the female society stick. Often, this manifests in gossiping, passive-aggressiveness, and some outright bullying (usually left at verbal, and usually not tracable.)


Or they attempt to take care of them as pity subjects. If these women are the type that get "points" by caring for everyone then they'll normally "take care" as a form of subtle "dominating and overpowering" of the socially weaker.

Quote:
AS thinks: "Fake. Poser. Valley Girl"
NT thinks: "Weird. Doesn't take care of herself. Unsociable"


Me: Eww shes so disgusting, she scares me
NT girl: Eww she like has an attitude problem, shes so standoffish............

Quote:
2.) In the female world of social nuance, it's really the NT girls we should pity. Neuro"evolution" has occured since we were in the caves. If someone didn't act normally, you figured that they were sick, or that their genes are damaged somehow. Society isn't to blame here, we are wired to keep from too closely associating with the physically and mentally disabled. Feeling uncomfortable around them is an impulse that most people have to work to supress. In this case, "evolution" is running its course, and making it an impulse for NT girls to avoid us. Our "Social genes" are "damaged", so the impulses go off in their brains to avoid us.


Dont agree, I dont think we should think less of NT girls, were equal but different. Im just sick of NT women thinking less of me. I dont hate all NT women, just about half of them intimidate me......The other half are ok.



mntn13
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27 Sep 2011, 11:11 pm

I gave up on having anything to do with NT women. When I was younger, I tried, but it was just painful and stupid. I cannot stand listening to all their b.s. Makes me bored and I have a hard time not rolling my eyes. So, I would blurt stuff out about what I was interested in, and it would cause awkward silence, pitying looks, etc. For another ex., my brother's second wife (a society-type "cool person") - made it quite clear to me I wasn't wanted - my kids, yes, me no. She made sure to repeatedly say mean things about me in front of other people; in response I haven't been back to see them for years. Nor do I allow my kids to be around her. They detest her anyway and don't want to go there.
I would probably be able to be friends with someone my age who's AS. But I don't know any. Then again, maybe I am just too annoying. :wink:



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29 Sep 2011, 12:59 pm

I don't exactly hate NT women, but I can't say I like them either. I have 4 friends of roughly my own age, 2 male and 2 female, and an NT husband. I suspect both males are on the spectrum somewhere. Of the 2 females, one is definitely NT and I'm undecided about the other. I like my NT friend (most of the time) but do not really understand her. She says the thing she likes most about me (other than the fact that I'll listen for hours without changing the subject) is the way I just don't care what people think of me or if they talk badly of me. I can go to the store in a wrinkled t-shirt, no makeup, hair in a braid down my back without a second thought, whereas she has to put on perfume and lipstick and mascara and make sure her hair and clothes are just right.

All this fuss to go to the grocery store?? To buy milk, eggs, cheese, and bread?? I feel kind of sorry for her. It's the grocery store, for crying out loud. Make sure you are clean, grab your wallet and your list, put on your shoes, and go! If this is how life is for NT women, I'll always be grateful to my daddy for my DNA.

I am often afraid of them. I do not understand them. Most of them in my area (Monongahela Valley) do not say what they mean, or mean what they say. If you do not act in the way they think you should, play all the little social games and play them well, they will not stop at ignoring/excluding you. They will actively seek to hurt you.

I remember as a child, being told that it was OK for other children to torment me because I was "just too weird." That I brought it on myself, that I deserved it, that I could expect no help or justice from school authorities, that I would be the one punished if I attempted to fight back in any way.

I became extremely withdrawn. Didn't begin reaching out to others until I was into my 20s. Had a few good experiences-- mostly with men, and a lot of those much older than myself (on the level of a generation or two). These led me to a naive view of human beings in general. Since into my 30's, I have been repeatedly rejected and harshly judged my NT women. I'd be happy if they stopped at rejection. Unfortunately, NT women, especially older NT women, seem inclined to judge me so harshly that they believe I deserve to be bereft of all relationships, cast out of my family, to lose custody of my children, et cetera.

I have been cut off from my stepmother, have had CPS contacted simply because I had a panic attack and disclosed that I have Asperger's, ad nauseam. AS didn't used to upset me much. In the past few years, though, I've had so many bad reactions from NT women-- and it's always women-- that I am afraid to form new relationships or even to leave my home with my children but without my husband.

I have become very depressed, and sometimes suffer periods of anger (I think anyone in my shoes would, Asperger's or not). I prefer the anger, because at least then I do not view myself as broken. This view became so all-encompasing that iculminated in a suicide attempt and hospitalization right before Labor Day. I'm now in an intensive outpatient program; they are very nice to me there and I am meeting lots of wonderful people, but no one can answer or help me answer the question that tears me up inside. Which is, to paraphrase Taylor Swift, "Why they wanna be so mean??"


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lunaloo
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29 Sep 2011, 6:03 pm

I don't get women at all and I think what a previous poster said about males being more tolerant is very true. Females are supposed to be the social ones, the nurturers and if you don't fit the mold, you can expect to be shut out.

Also, I'm very feminine and like to dress nice, wear make-up, and have my hair just so. I think the focus I put on my appearance (which is probably closely related to my social insecurity), combined with my natural aloofness is probably a bit off-putting. I actually went through a period in which I tried to dress more conservatively and tone down the make-up hoping that might make a difference with other women. It didn't and it just made me feel more uncomfortable. So now I wear what I want, do my hair and make-up in such a way that I like and feel comfortable with and to hell with what anyone else thinks. I'm actually a very nice person, despite the fact that I come across as aloof and fake.



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29 Sep 2011, 8:49 pm

So what my friend envies-- and what other women hate-- isn't that I'm plain or that I don't fit the mold, but that I'm confident (or at least used to be)?????

I guess that's it with the hair and make-up. It's not an NT thing or a society thing. It's a confidence thing.

Maybe it's totally outside of AS. Like, "Why can't women just be confident in who they are-- whoever they are-- and have ourselves and each other be OK with that?"

For some of us anyway-- those of us on the HFA end of the spectrum-- I guess the same question applies. "Why can't we be confident in who we are, for who we are, whoever we are, and have both ourselves and the NT world be OK with that?"

Women, Aspies... Why does it seem that it is so wrong for us to take the world at least partially on our terms?


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