Why females aren't taken seriously

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Sexual attractiveness is power. That's just a fact, biologically, socially, human to human, creature to creature.
But showing more is the simplistic choice, and not necessarily sexier.

I think it's been made clear that there are 2 types of woman, to a man's mind. (Of course, this is all generalisation, however...)
These are the Madonna and the Whore. Each sees herself differently to the other, valuing different aspects of her self, and dresses accordingly too. The 'Whore' type is used like a toy, an amusement, while the 'Madonna' is the one he wishes to keep for life, to respect & take seriously.
Maybe the girls want to play for awhile, maybe they wish for Love, maybe they just have no clue as to what they are doing and are merely following trends. I suspect the latter.

What I find disturbing is the trend-following pre-pubescant girls wearing sexualised outfits with no idea about the consequences or how to deal with them. There are too many predators out there, and girls do need to be educated as to the effect they have on males.

If women want to wear a burqa and the rest of the black beekeeper suit as a fashion statement, that's fine with me. But I think that this outfit -- which restricts movement and vision, is extremely hot and cumbersome in the summer, and causes vitamin D deficiency and depression due to lack of sunlight exposure -- is usually worn because women are forced to wear it in many Middle Eastern countries. If they were caught in public in more comfortable and fashionable clothing, they would be publicly beaten or worse.

That is not quite the same as the subtle fashion dictatorship, media influence and peer pressure that Western women are subjected to. If you live in the West, you can wear pretty much anything you want. You don't have to succumb to societal pressure. Just look at the many different fashion trends and youth subcultures. Nobody is forced to dress like a punk, a goth, an emo, a hipster girl, a metalhead or a rap fan. People want to do that, and they don't care what anybody else says.

There is no fashion police in the West that pulls people off the street and sentences them to 30 lashes on their bare feet. Of course you might be required to wear a certain clothing style or even a uniform at work, depending on your job. But this kind of oppression affects men and women alike, and nobody forces people to work a job with a strict dress requirement. I don't think Western women can seriously compare the dire situation of Middle Eastern women to their own.



All that I'm saying is that girls, especially during adolescence when the limbic system takes control and screams "mate, mate, MATE!", want to look attractive. At least as attractive as their competition, i.e. other young women. Hence the arms race. Freak-Z called it peer pressure, and that is true in a way. Only that girls are putting this pressure on themselves when they try to look as hot and desirable as their peers in order to succeed in the mating game.

^^^^When I was at school for this one or remove 15.

Funny Slapping on too much make-up & dressing up too much, actually puts me off & I value a girl with a brain. I am also not one into you know large you know, so inserting padding & that would put me off.

So while your doing all that, your going to get someone who has gone for what you are at the time. Until you stand they at the bedroom, pulling a magic trick.

Less is more to me. I don't mind pigtail rave girl look or cheerleader look. Its just too much make-up, I don't like blush & using products that alter you.

But then I forgot you avoid shy guys lol

Last edited by TechnoDog on 21 Apr 2012, 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

I'm a female and I'm taken seriously...



Or else

I guess that my limbic system must be underdeveloped.

I predict that this thread will be ten pages long by the end of the day.

It's a sparky one...so many variables.

Clearly, you think they are to blame. You unyieldingly place the blame on women (and we're women, not 'females') for not valuing themselves, not seeing themselves as sex objects, sexualizing themselves and thinking "their vaginas are the sum total of themselves". Why are you even talking? You already know why these girls are stupid slu*ty sluts. It's them. They made that choice. In your mind, it has nothing to do with how they've grown up in a society that gives them few, if any other options, where they've been told from the day they were born that being pretty and demure rather than smart and assertive is what makes a girl, that their individuality and individual thoughts are not valued, and that the only power they will ever yield in this society is the ability to sexually attract men.



Your son hasn't had to spend his life constantly burdened with messages that his intelligence is of little value while his appearance and ability to conform to social gender convention will define and limit his role in society from the rest of his life. That's allowed him more time and energy to spend developing his intelligence. Bully for him. I wish it was the same for girls, but it's not. And it wasn't when I was in school, and it wasn't when you were in school either. Why are you acting as if this is a new development? Did you just wake up from a 51 year stupor yesterday?



Yeah, no kidding. You're being pretty vicious and hostile yourself. Maybe you should step back and ask yourself why women like yourself are the meanest critics of these young women. It's nothing short of misogyny. Really.



Hard to make progress when, as always, women themselves are blamed from being beaten down by patriarchal conventions and biases in our society while those sources of the problem--those very conventions and biases that dictate to everyone, men AND women, how we should treat and view women--go unaddressed. It's like blaming a battered wife from her husband's abuse of her. This too is a symptom of patriarchy--blaming women from their own oppression and victimization. And you're just falling in line with it while blaming young women for not overcoming what you didn't overcome yourself. Get a clue.

I think we've all got to remember that whatever argument we have - we've all been brought up differently, at different times, in different places, with different values. The only way we're going to understand each other more is to say our opinions, compare them and discuss them, and question our own values as well. We're all learning, all the time. It's nobody's fault that we've all had different experiences and therefore ended up with different values. Let's not attack each other, but discuss so we all can be more open-minded.

Because I bet porn star is what these 15 year old girls are going for? Damn maybe part of the problem is already at the age of 15 they are being accused of being whores, porn star wanna-bes and other not so nice terms I don't think I need to post.

And people wonder why I like the era that I do.

I think kids have always done that. Girls are trying to catch the attention of the boys and haven't worked it out yet how the best way to go about doing so. Guys act like as*holes to each other in some macho posturing game. It is kind of primitive, but not really anything new. Once they get a little older, they usually figure out new ways to grab the attention of a guy without putting everything on display. Really that is much more seductive.

I was using hyperbole to make a point. I mean there was that thing where Britney and K-Fed had that Pimps-n-Hos themed wedding, not to mention the majority of western culture from time immemorial, but it's still definitely my fault that young women have to contend with this double standard and simplistic virgin/whore dichotomy. My bad.

moved from Random Discussion to Women's Discussion

i have to say.... i think this reinforces the point that 15 year old girls are not really valued or noticed in our society unless they are attractive and dressed in a revealing manner. nobody talks about the quiet mousy humble intellectual drably-dressed 15 year-olds - and they do exist, i assure you. many people in our society (i.e. a few in this thread) are so busy judging the females in skimpy clothing that the other females are not noticed. it speaks volumes that people are even having this conversation.

also, who the heck cares what they wear? you can't tell a darn thing about them from their clothing. dressing promiscuously does not equal acting promiscuously, and either way - it's none of our business.

You could say the same about teenagers in general. Only that the boys feel ignored unless they act out, do incredibly stupid things, drive ridiculously fast, engage in vandalism, or otherwise prove their courage. Or get into fights and arguments, and display their dominance by picking on weaker kids. All in front of girls if possible.

If you're a shy and quiet male teenager, nobody notices you either. You only get attention from bullies (and their giggling girlfriends whom they're trying to impress with this behavior). And your own parents will assume that you're gay or otherwise strange because you never go out with girls. If you were their daughter, they might be proud that you have the good sense to stay away from boys and focus on your studies. But as a boy, you're expected to prove your heterosexual prowess and your ability to fend for yourself, even to your own family.

Now that I'm older, I don't take teenagers serious either. Why should I? They certainly don't behave as if they wanted to be taken serious. Unless they're autistic, their frontal lobes have taken some time off when they hit puberty and will report back for duty in their twenties. In the meantime, they're little more than chimps. Aggressive, loud-mouthed, dangerous chimps. Especially the males, and especially when they happen to be in female company. I feel threatened when I see a gang of teens at a street corner, and I've noticed that other, non-anxious adults feel the same way. I sometimes think teenagers should be shipped off to some remote educational facility at age 12 where they're schooled and supervised by professional educators, and only be re-introduced into society when their frontal lobe is fully developed and functional (i.e., around age 25).

PS: I hope that I'm still allowed to participate in this thread, seeing that it's in Women's Discussion now I don't really understand why this is a topic for women only. Do men have no business discussing the behavior of female teenagers?