the treatment of women on wrongplanet
Mindslave
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22 May 2014, 9:14 pm
starvingartist wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Quote:
you're not a very understanding person are you? You're very quick to take offense. Maybe thats part of your problem? maybe its not the world but you? just a suggestion. said with zero emotion attached but ive no doubt you'll add a condescending tone to what im saying.
Can't the "world" ever be wrong in what it believes? You're making a fallacy of appeal to popularity. Just because the majority says and believe x is true does not make it true.
What is this "world" we're talking about? It seems like you're lumping the whole populace of the world into your beliefs and your cultural beliefs and I believe this is a hasty generalization.
blockhead90, why don't you learn to attack and question people's arguments instead of making an ad hominem attack?
Maybe because when he does that, the poor persecuted woman on WP card is played, which is the ace in the hole because everybody wants to help a dainty damsel in distress who can't seem to help herself, except of course evil sexist pigs such as blockhead and myself.
Do you, he, Billiscool and some of the others have any respect whatsoever? All you're doing is making insults, you're devaluing how these women feel, you make ad hominem attacks, and you're treating them exactly the way NT American society treats us. They see a some of the guys on here as treating them as commodities instead of people having intrinsic worth. This is exactly what American society does and you're behaving exactly like them. You want acceptance and others to validate your feelings then you need to do the same.
By my observations, the women here are right. Some of the members have been misogynistic like BillisCool. He devalues both his gfs and manipulates and I don't like it. This is the exact problem with American society and this BS needs to stop in American society including the some of the guys on wrongplanet.
And all you've done is whine, whine, whine and engage in self-righteous verbal martyrdom. Why do you keep bringing up American society? This is just a website. Billiscool has been misogynistic, sure. Or frustrated, lonely, whatever the official dictionary word is. That's your thing, right? Proper, EXACT uses of words like misogynist and feminist? Whine. Most people don't like whining, especially not the kind where an entire class of people are being attacked. Nobody agrees with Billiscool for that reason, but when some people have a problem with what starvingartist has to say, its sexist. Which is what he is whining about, but yet, nobody cares, because he's a whiner, and respectable people take responsibility and don't whine most of the time about being victims of a gender double standard.
Look, things shouldn't be sexist on here. Nobody is going to dispute that, and nobody has. If you think someone has, it says a lot about you and your paranoia. What is being disputed is whether or not it can be changed. Because all the whining and activism in the society, I mean on this website, isn't going to change things. And what I and and a few other people are chiefly disputing are the merits of making sexism bannable. It is not the same thing as racism. There's no subforum that says "Race Relations". And by the way, plenty of women on here say things without getting flamed. It's just that nobody notices.
translation/short answer: "no, i can't cite any examples of the claims i'm making."
edit* to add: please explain how sexism and racism are not parallels, and what makes sexism more tolerable than racism.
I already did explain how they are not parallels. In case reading what you just responded to is too much trouble, there is no subforum on here titled "Race Relations". There is a subforum titled "Love and Dating" which is about gender relations. Love and Dating includes straight and gay; don't cry heterosexism on me.
And since you started the thread, the onus is on you to cite examples of the sexism claims you are making. The only claim I'm making is that your idea isn't going to work, and will only make things worse. I'm not sure how citing "examples" will do any good, especially since you want justice and not an actual explanation of anything.
22 May 2014, 9:17 pm
Even without this initiative, women are rising in the world. In order to continue to succeed, I believe, they must take the beliefs of misogynists with a grain of salt. Slough them off. Show disrespect for them by disregarding them, rather than become all discombobulated by them. Let them die a merciful death, like the evil witch in "The Wizard of Oz."
Men must slough off what women say as well during the "gender wars."
This is becoming old hat, fast.
Men aren't always a paragon of virtue; neither are women.
I just did a survey on the ratio between women and men in an anonymous (but true) Attorney's Office.
It turns out that 21 of the newly hired attorneys are women; versus 11 for men.
I believe that within 20 years, the Patriarchy will be no more--only an historical appendage.
Now....why can't we all just get along?
Mindslave
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Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,034
Location: Where the wild things wish they were
22 May 2014, 9:20 pm
Nights_Like_These wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Quote:
you're not a very understanding person are you? You're very quick to take offense. Maybe thats part of your problem? maybe its not the world but you? just a suggestion. said with zero emotion attached but ive no doubt you'll add a condescending tone to what im saying.
Can't the "world" ever be wrong in what it believes? You're making a fallacy of appeal to popularity. Just because the majority says and believe x is true does not make it true.
What is this "world" we're talking about? It seems like you're lumping the whole populace of the world into your beliefs and your cultural beliefs and I believe this is a hasty generalization.
blockhead90, why don't you learn to attack and question people's arguments instead of making an ad hominem attack?
Maybe because when he does that, the poor persecuted woman on WP card is played, which is the ace in the hole because everybody wants to help a dainty damsel in distress who can't seem to help herself, except of course evil sexist pigs such as blockhead and myself.
Do you, he, Billiscool and some of the others have any respect whatsoever? All you're doing is making insults, you're devaluing how these women feel, you make ad hominem attacks, and you're treating them exactly the way NT American society treats us. They see a some of the guys on here as treating them as commodities instead of people having intrinsic worth. This is exactly what American society does and you're behaving exactly like them. You want acceptance and others to validate your feelings then you need to do the same.
By my observations, the women here are right. Some of the members have been misogynistic like BillisCool. He devalues both his gfs and manipulates and I don't like it. This is the exact problem with American society and this BS needs to stop in American society including the some of the guys on wrongplanet.
And all you've done is whine, whine, whine and engage in self-righteous verbal martyrdom. Why do you keep bringing up American society? This is just a website. Billiscool has been misogynistic, sure. Or frustrated, lonely, whatever the official dictionary word is. That's your thing, right? Proper, EXACT uses of words like misogynist and feminist? Whine. Most people don't like whining, especially not the kind where an entire class of people are being attacked. Nobody agrees with Billiscool for that reason, but when some people have a problem with what starvingartist has to say, its sexist. Which is what he is whining about, but yet, nobody cares, because he's a whiner, and respectable people take responsibility and don't whine most of the time about being victims of a gender double standard.
Look, things shouldn't be sexist on here. Nobody is going to dispute that, and nobody has. If you think someone has, it says a lot about you and your paranoia. What is being disputed is whether or not it can be changed. Because all the whining and activism in the society, I mean on this website, isn't going to change things. And what I and and a few other people are chiefly disputing are the merits of making sexism bannable. It is not the same thing as racism. There's no subforum that says "Race Relations". And by the way, plenty of women on here say things without getting flamed. It's just that nobody notices.
Do people ever react to you by punching you in the face in real life? Or do you only act like this anonymously on the internet?
Strangely enough, I speak my mind in person most of the time. Usually I don't discuss Internet forums in person. And I've never been punched in the face, mainly because unlike the Internet, most people aren't tough guys in person. Also, in person, most people I speak to are reasonable, and don't get offended by the slightest whiff of hypocrisy. And people listen in person. Also, in person, 5 or 6 people aren't speaking at once. Also, in person, people who speak to each other tend to have common ground. Also, in person, physical violence is frowned upon. Also, in person, I'm socially presentable. And in person, people don't always agree with me, but I don't speak to win the approval of others, so it doesn't bother me.
Mindslave
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22 May 2014, 9:25 pm
Mindslave wrote:
I already did explain how they are not parallels. [no, you didn't--the following does not illustrate that racism and sexism are not parallels, only that there is not a subforum specifically for race relations or gender relations. love & dating is not about gender relations--it's about love & dating (hence the name).] In case reading what you just responded to is too much trouble, there is no subforum on here titled "Race Relations". There is a subforum titled "Love and Dating" which is about gender relations. [as stated above: this does not prove that sexism is not equally intolerable and damaging as racism.] Love and Dating includes straight and gay; don't cry heterosexism on me.
And since you started the thread, the onus is on you to cite examples of the sexism claims you are making. [the point of this thread is not to prove the existence of sexism on wrongplanet--the point is to organise the women who are experiencing sexism on wrongplanet so we can approach alex about finding a solution to that problem (which even according to you no one is denying and no one is claiming is not a problem).]The only claim I'm making is that your idea isn't going to work, and will only make things worse. [if you are right, i will find that out for myself--but not without trying first to make a change, and no, you won't discourage me with your BS.] I'm not sure how citing "examples" will do any good, especially since you want justice and not an actual explanation of anything. [you're probably right that nothing you could contribute to this thread will be helpful--so in future, don't.]
And since you started the thread, the onus is on you to cite examples of the sexism claims you are making. [the point of this thread is not to prove the existence of sexism on wrongplanet--the point is to organise the women who are experiencing sexism on wrongplanet so we can approach alex about finding a solution to that problem (which even according to you no one is denying and no one is claiming is not a problem).]The only claim I'm making is that your idea isn't going to work, and will only make things worse. [if you are right, i will find that out for myself--but not without trying first to make a change, and no, you won't discourage me with your BS.] I'm not sure how citing "examples" will do any good, especially since you want justice and not an actual explanation of anything. [you're probably right that nothing you could contribute to this thread will be helpful--so in future, don't.]
Mindslave
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Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,034
Location: Where the wild things wish they were
22 May 2014, 9:29 pm
starvingartist wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
I already did explain how they are not parallels. [no, you didn't--the following does not illustrate that racism and sexism are not parallels, only that there is not a subforum specifically for race relations or gender relations. love & dating is not about gender relations--it's about love & dating (hence the name).] In case reading what you just responded to is too much trouble, there is no subforum on here titled "Race Relations". There is a subforum titled "Love and Dating" which is about gender relations. [as stated above: this does not prove that sexism is not equally intolerable and damaging as racism.] Love and Dating includes straight and gay; don't cry heterosexism on me.
And since you started the thread, the onus is on you to cite examples of the sexism claims you are making. [the point of this thread is not to prove the existence of sexism on wrongplanet--the point is to organise the women who are experiencing sexism on wrongplanet so we can approach alex about finding a solution to that problem (which even according to you no one is denying and no one is claiming is not a problem).]The only claim I'm making is that your idea isn't going to work, and will only make things worse. [if you are right, i will find that out for myself--but not without trying first to make a change, and no, you won't discourage me with your BS.] I'm not sure how citing "examples" will do any good, especially since you want justice and not an actual explanation of anything. [you're probably right that nothing you could contribute to this thread will be helpful--so in future, don't.]
And since you started the thread, the onus is on you to cite examples of the sexism claims you are making. [the point of this thread is not to prove the existence of sexism on wrongplanet--the point is to organise the women who are experiencing sexism on wrongplanet so we can approach alex about finding a solution to that problem (which even according to you no one is denying and no one is claiming is not a problem).]The only claim I'm making is that your idea isn't going to work, and will only make things worse. [if you are right, i will find that out for myself--but not without trying first to make a change, and no, you won't discourage me with your BS.] I'm not sure how citing "examples" will do any good, especially since you want justice and not an actual explanation of anything. [you're probably right that nothing you could contribute to this thread will be helpful--so in future, don't.]
Go ahead. Make your change. It won't work, but try. Ideally, try something a little less dramatic then "Zero tolerance for sexism" because that's doomed to fail.
22 May 2014, 9:35 pm
Mindslave wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
I already did explain how they are not parallels. [no, you didn't--the following does not illustrate that racism and sexism are not parallels, only that there is not a subforum specifically for race relations or gender relations. love & dating is not about gender relations--it's about love & dating (hence the name).] In case reading what you just responded to is too much trouble, there is no subforum on here titled "Race Relations". There is a subforum titled "Love and Dating" which is about gender relations. [as stated above: this does not prove that sexism is not equally intolerable and damaging as racism.] Love and Dating includes straight and gay; don't cry heterosexism on me.
And since you started the thread, the onus is on you to cite examples of the sexism claims you are making. [the point of this thread is not to prove the existence of sexism on wrongplanet--the point is to organise the women who are experiencing sexism on wrongplanet so we can approach alex about finding a solution to that problem (which even according to you no one is denying and no one is claiming is not a problem).]The only claim I'm making is that your idea isn't going to work, and will only make things worse. [if you are right, i will find that out for myself--but not without trying first to make a change, and no, you won't discourage me with your BS.] I'm not sure how citing "examples" will do any good, especially since you want justice and not an actual explanation of anything. [you're probably right that nothing you could contribute to this thread will be helpful--so in future, don't.]
And since you started the thread, the onus is on you to cite examples of the sexism claims you are making. [the point of this thread is not to prove the existence of sexism on wrongplanet--the point is to organise the women who are experiencing sexism on wrongplanet so we can approach alex about finding a solution to that problem (which even according to you no one is denying and no one is claiming is not a problem).]The only claim I'm making is that your idea isn't going to work, and will only make things worse. [if you are right, i will find that out for myself--but not without trying first to make a change, and no, you won't discourage me with your BS.] I'm not sure how citing "examples" will do any good, especially since you want justice and not an actual explanation of anything. [you're probably right that nothing you could contribute to this thread will be helpful--so in future, don't.]
Go ahead. Make your change. It won't work, but try. Ideally, try something a little less dramatic then "Zero tolerance for sexism" because that's doomed to fail.
that's nice. move along now.
22 May 2014, 9:40 pm
Quote:
And all you've done is whine, whine, whine and engage in self-righteous verbal martyrdom. Why do you keep bringing up American society?
The website has a lot of heavy American influence. This intersects with other aspects and beliefs of American society in a complex way. You can't talk about this in isolation and be able to resolve issues and help to make things better with all. For instance, one of the issues of the autism debate is the fear of the abortion of autistic fetuses. In order to discuss this one has to be able to discuss abortion as well. Issues are a interwoven in a complex web of other issues. This is why I bring in American society and this is why I ask questions and bring in what you perceive as sideline topics to the discussion. Sticking to one topic in isolation does not give a proper perspective of things. For me it is very difficult to compartmentalize things in my head as some aspies and NTs seem to do.
Quote:
This is just a website. Billiscool has been misogynistic, sure. Or frustrated, lonely, whatever the official dictionary word is. That's your thing, right? Proper, EXACT uses of words like misogynist and feminist? Whine. Most people don't like whining, especially not the kind where an entire class of people are being attacked. Nobody agrees with Billiscool for that reason, but when some people have a problem with what starvingartist has to say, its sexist. Which is what he is whining about, but yet, nobody cares, because he's a whiner, and respectable people take responsibility and don't whine most of the time about being victims of a gender double standard.
So, because I want to attempt to try to use proper grammar and accurate wording you're going to bash me for it? Why? Why am I not allowed to attempt to use proper grammar and accurate wording. No, I'm not perfect but I do try and I do use some internet short hand like lol.
Quote:
Look, things shouldn't be sexist on here. Nobody is going to dispute that, and nobody has. If you think someone has, it says a lot about you and your paranoia. What is being disputed is whether or not it can be changed. Because all the whining and activism in the society, I mean on this website, isn't going to change things. And what I and and a few other people are chiefly disputing are the merits of making sexism bannable. It is not the same thing as racism. There's no subforum that says "Race Relations". And by the way, plenty of women on here say things without getting flamed. It's just that nobody notices.
It is possible that maybe you guys are not intending to be sexist but the thing is but some of the women perceive that you are being sexist and they are hurt by it. Even if you intend no offense why can't you simply apologize and state that "I meant no offense and I did not know that this came across as sexist. I apologize."
22 May 2014, 9:49 pm
Quote:
Go ahead. Make your change. It won't work, but try. Ideally, try something a little less dramatic then "Zero tolerance for sexism" because that's doomed to fail.
How do you figure it won't work?
She and other women on here believe they have been wronged. Let's say she does fail, so what. At least she is trying to do something about it. We can't fix the rest of society's BS but at least it is more possible to fix our own backyard. She's leading the charge and you know what she has my utmost respect. She sees a wrong and she is fighting for what she believes. Sometimes, even against all odds one may have to do what is right and this is what she is doing. Sometimes you got to do what you got to do and draw that line in the sand and say no we won't put up with this.
I support making our little corner of the universe better and I say if she wants to try to do that I say go for it.
StarvingArtist, if you need assistance with anything and if I am able to and have time I will provide assistance.
22 May 2014, 9:54 pm
I believe there are times when the sexist remarks are actually jokes, or at least have a satirical intent.
One remark creates a classic "snowball effect" leading to the dispensing of logic, and the preeminence of emotion.
Under the influence of this "preeminence of emotion," people of both genders make remarks which they might regret later.
I believe Alex is right in this instance. Let the fools show themselves to be fools. Just ignore them, slough them off.
Since the Patriarchy is going away anyway, why not just relegate the sexist remarks to the status of Absurdity?
In actuality, I don't believe most members of this are either misogynists or man-haters. Most of the time, I believe, as I stated above, the sexist remarks bear a satirical intent.
22 May 2014, 10:00 pm
I support this wholeheartedly. I find it so hard to read through threads on here that have descended into petty name-calling and utter stubbornness on the part of certain members - and this thread was a real struggle. As Burke said: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".
"Evil" might be a strong word for it, but the sentiment is still valid here.
Mindslave, Blockhead: you two really need to reassess your attitudes towards women, you're out of order even if you can't see it. I suspect that may be the problem in a lot of cases here, a moderator could at least point that out to the individual responsible. If they continue after that, then it becomes clear where the problem is.
22 May 2014, 10:01 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe there are times when the sexist remarks are actually jokes, or at least have a satirical intent.
One remark creates a classic "snowball effect" leading to the dispensing of logic, and the preeminence of emotion.
Under the influence of this "preeminence of emotion," people of both genders make remarks which they might regret later.
I believe Alex is right in this instance. Let the fools show themselves to be fools. Just ignore them, slough them off.
Since the Patriarchy is going away anyway, why not just relegate the sexist remarks to the status of Absurdity?
In actuality, I don't believe most members of this are either misogynists or man-haters. Most of the time, I believe, as I stated above, the sexist remarks bear a satirical intent.
One remark creates a classic "snowball effect" leading to the dispensing of logic, and the preeminence of emotion.
Under the influence of this "preeminence of emotion," people of both genders make remarks which they might regret later.
I believe Alex is right in this instance. Let the fools show themselves to be fools. Just ignore them, slough them off.
Since the Patriarchy is going away anyway, why not just relegate the sexist remarks to the status of Absurdity?
In actuality, I don't believe most members of this are either misogynists or man-haters. Most of the time, I believe, as I stated above, the sexist remarks bear a satirical intent.
and when the butt of your jokes (women) tell you over and over that your jokes aren't funny, you continue making them why? easy for you to say slough it off when you can come here and not feel threatened and hated for having a vagina. stop telling us to ignore sexism please, it hasn't been helpful as a tactic for the last 5 thousand years, i doubt it will be useful to "ignore it" in future. if all you have to say is "just ignore it", then please don't bother contributing to this thread, because it's not a useful suggestion--which is specifically what i asked for in my OP.
22 May 2014, 10:04 pm
sapere_aude wrote:
I support this wholeheartedly. I find it so hard to read through threads on here that have descended into petty name-calling and utter stubbornness on the part of certain members - and this thread was a real struggle. As Burke said: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".
"Evil" might be a strong word for it, but the sentiment is still valid here.
Mindslave, Blockhead: you two really need to reassess your attitudes towards women, you're out of order even if you can't see it. I suspect that may be the problem in a lot of cases here, a moderator could at least point that out to the individual responsible. If they continue after that, then it becomes clear where the problem is.
"Evil" might be a strong word for it, but the sentiment is still valid here.
Mindslave, Blockhead: you two really need to reassess your attitudes towards women, you're out of order even if you can't see it. I suspect that may be the problem in a lot of cases here, a moderator could at least point that out to the individual responsible. If they continue after that, then it becomes clear where the problem is.
I am so glad I'm not alone on this. It is nice to see someone who sees it as I do.
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