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C2V
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05 Dec 2017, 9:29 am

Claradoon wrote:
I've battled for years to keep men out of Women Only but only men respond. Women should have a place (in WP? not sure) - but it's the men who respond and take the decision. They don't understand. Also there's no guarantee who's male or female. Men seem to think that women want to be alone in order to talk about men. Arrogance! For example, is it possible for a man to understand a mother-daughter relationship? No. So I don't talk about it. But I'm angry.

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Fireblossom wrote:
Agreed. I'd feel more comfortable talking about personal stuff in a place like that. Men should have a place of their own too, for the sake of equality, but I think we'd really need a women only -place.

I think that's sad in a way, for both parties. Can't a man understand a mother-daughter relationship? Just because he's not a mother or a daughter? He can still understand as much as anyone not in someone else's exact place can what that must be like (because of course every mother-daughter relationship is different) and maybe learn something about that relationship that might make him a better father if he has a daughter, or similar circumstances. Maybe he understands the relationship between his girlfriend/wife and her mother better because of the exposure to those ideas. Why shouldn't they be allowed to talk about it?
And it's sad that women feel like they need to exclude men in order to be able to discuss topics relevant to them. Any man involved in the discussion shouldn'e be making women feel like they need to exclude everyone male in order to have a "safe space."
Maybe I'm being an idealist but it'd be nice if there was no need for exclusion based on sex.


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smudge
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05 Dec 2017, 10:04 am

Some men are way more supportive than most women. Exclude all men and you exclude the really nice, sweet and supportive ones too. It’s not like there are only just a few of them. So you lose out.

I don’t like this hate against men.


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MariaTheFictionkin
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05 Dec 2017, 10:10 am

smudge wrote:
Some men are way more supportive than most women. Exclude all men and you exclude the really nice, sweet and supportive ones too. It’s not like there are only just a few of them. So you lose out.

I don’t like this hate against men.


Same, I actually have noticed this a lot from the posts I've seen from my few days being registered on this site. I don't get why it's such a common occurrence here... meh -shrugs-


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Fireblossom
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05 Dec 2017, 12:29 pm

C2V wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
Agreed. I'd feel more comfortable talking about personal stuff in a place like that. Men should have a place of their own too, for the sake of equality, but I think we'd really need a women only -place.

I think that's sad in a way, for both parties. Can't a man understand a mother-daughter relationship? Just because he's not a mother or a daughter? He can still understand as much as anyone not in someone else's exact place can what that must be like (because of course every mother-daughter relationship is different) and maybe learn something about that relationship that might make him a better father if he has a daughter, or similar circumstances. Maybe he understands the relationship between his girlfriend/wife and her mother better because of the exposure to those ideas. Why shouldn't they be allowed to talk about it?
And it's sad that women feel like they need to exclude men in order to be able to discuss topics relevant to them. Any man involved in the discussion shouldn'e be making women feel like they need to exclude everyone male in order to have a "safe space."
Maybe I'm being an idealist but it'd be nice if there was no need for exclusion based on sex.


I can only speak for myself here, but personally I'd like a place only for women because of how I've seen some men act here, not because they're men. If there weren't men that make me very uncomfortable on this forum then I wouldn't see a need for a women only -place. In a previous autism support forum I used to be a member of (and still would if it was still up) I never felt like there was something I shouldn't talk about, but in here it seems that in certain topics your opinions and experiences are worth nothing if you're a woman and that certain rules and stereotypes are always aplied to you if you are of the said gender. It feels like there's a lot of hate on women here.

Quote:
Some men are way more supportive than most women. Exclude all men and you exclude the really nice, sweet and supportive ones too. It’s not like there are only just a few of them. So you lose out.

I don’t like this hate against men.


I know that, I know there are some kind and supportive men, but there's no way to automatically tell them apart from the not so nice and not so supportive men, so I think having a forum only for women would be worth trying. There could be some women there that would make it feel unsafe, make it feel meaningless, but the only way to know for sure would be to try.

I don't like hate against men either, just like I don't like the hate against women that I feel like this place has a lot.



ASPartOfMe
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05 Dec 2017, 1:21 pm

Here is my OPINION.

On a forum like this a safe space is impossible, a safer space is doable

1. For this section rules and enforcement should be tightened so that this section is similar to The Heaven

2. Moderators for this section should be autistic females. Maybe the moderators job should be only this section. I am sure there are capable men, but there is more of a likelihood that women moderators would understand the nuances and it would make more users feel comfortable to do what WP should be for, talk about issues that one fears discussing elsewhere.


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MagicKnight
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05 Dec 2017, 1:31 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
in here it seems that in certain topics your opinions and experiences are worth nothing if you're a woman


I am a man. Sometimes there were opinions and topics of mine that seemed worth nothing. So many times it was a woman against me, trying to put my experience to dust and refuting my rights to express myself.

Nevertheless I'm still here.



Claradoon
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05 Dec 2017, 1:58 pm

smudge wrote:
Some men are way more supportive than most women. Exclude all men and you exclude the really nice, sweet and supportive ones too. It’s not like there are only just a few of them. So you lose out.

I don’t like this hate against men.

It's not hate! That keeps coming up - I don't know why. And when women get together, in my experience, the topic is never men. I did a whole consciousness-raising group in the 70s and never once did 'men' surface as the topic.

Although - let me take a guess - the only reason that my brothers go out for a beer is that they hate women? Nope.

It troubles me that women wanting a place of their own is taken as being all about men. It has nothing to do with men.

It offends me that men take over the discussion and men make the decision. That's like Victorian times. It should be up to women to take a decision that concerns only women.



Fireblossom
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05 Dec 2017, 2:50 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Here is my OPINION.

On a forum like this a safe space is impossible, a safer space is doable

1. For this section rules and enforcement should be tightened so that this section is similar to The Heaven

2. Moderators for this section should be autistic females. Maybe the moderators job should be only this section. I am sure there are capable men, but there is more of a likelihood that women moderators would understand the nuances and it would make more users feel comfortable to do what WP should be for, talk about issues that one fears discussing elsewhere.


This sounds like a good idea.



C2V
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05 Dec 2017, 9:35 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
In a previous autism support forum I used to be a member of (and still would if it was still up) I never felt like there was something I shouldn't talk about, but in here it seems that in certain topics your opinions and experiences are worth nothing if you're a woman and that certain rules and stereotypes are always aplied to you if you are of the said gender. It feels like there's a lot of hate on women here.

Where was that? I've seen people with different opinions, but nothing that outright screamed "I think your opinion is worthless just because you're a woman."
In what topics did you feel that stereotypes and and gender rules were applied? And I'm curious about what kinds of things you feel like you shouldn't talk about if men are involved in the discussion?

Fireblossom wrote:
smudge wrote:
Some men are way more supportive than most women. Exclude all men and you exclude the really nice, sweet and supportive ones too. It’s not like there are only just a few of them. So you lose out.

I don’t like this hate against men.


I know that, I know there are some kind and supportive men, but there's no way to automatically tell them apart from the not so nice and not so supportive men, so I think having a forum only for women would be worth trying. There could be some women there that would make it feel unsafe, make it feel meaningless, but the only way to know for sure would be to try.

I don't like hate against men either, just like I don't like the hate against women that I feel like this place has a lot.

I'd agree with this too - some male responses I've seen have been more understanding than some female responses. So if there's no way to tell the difference between a man who is going to be supportive and understanding and a man who isn't and is going to make women feel uncomfortable, and also no way to tell the difference between a woman who is going to be understanding and a woman who is going to make other women feel uncomfortable - how would a women-only-exclusing-all-men forum help solve the problem of being uncomfortable bringing up certain topics?
If people could just be expected to be more respectful of other people in the forum guidelines, it might solve that issue better without sex-based exclusion.
Just my opinion.


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Fireblossom
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06 Dec 2017, 2:06 am

C2V wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
In a previous autism support forum I used to be a member of (and still would if it was still up) I never felt like there was something I shouldn't talk about, but in here it seems that in certain topics your opinions and experiences are worth nothing if you're a woman and that certain rules and stereotypes are always aplied to you if you are of the said gender. It feels like there's a lot of hate on women here.

Where was that? I've seen people with different opinions, but nothing that outright screamed "I think your opinion is worthless just because you're a woman."
In what topics did you feel that stereotypes and and gender rules were applied? And I'm curious about what kinds of things you feel like you shouldn't talk about if men are involved in the discussion?

Fireblossom wrote:
smudge wrote:
Some men are way more supportive than most women. Exclude all men and you exclude the really nice, sweet and supportive ones too. It’s not like there are only just a few of them. So you lose out.

I don’t like this hate against men.


I know that, I know there are some kind and supportive men, but there's no way to automatically tell them apart from the not so nice and not so supportive men, so I think having a forum only for women would be worth trying. There could be some women there that would make it feel unsafe, make it feel meaningless, but the only way to know for sure would be to try.

I don't like hate against men either, just like I don't like the hate against women that I feel like this place has a lot.

I'd agree with this too - some male responses I've seen have been more understanding than some female responses. So if there's no way to tell the difference between a man who is going to be supportive and understanding and a man who isn't and is going to make women feel uncomfortable, and also no way to tell the difference between a woman who is going to be understanding and a woman who is going to make other women feel uncomfortable - how would a women-only-exclusing-all-men forum help solve the problem of being uncomfortable bringing up certain topics?
If people could just be expected to be more respectful of other people in the forum guidelines, it might solve that issue better without sex-based exclusion.
Just my opinion.


There's a lot of that in that Love an dating part of the forum. All that talk about how women are superficial, how women think about certain kind of men as losers etc. I don't deny that some do this, but speaking of all women as a group like that feels very insulting. It's the same as if I would say all guys are horrible creatures just because few guys treated me really badly when I was still in school.

It might not help with the problem, I know that, but it might help with it. We'd find out by trying. Besides, in here things go off topic in to a men versus women kind of thing very fast (things like "all women are like that", "that's okay for women but not for men" etc), but I think that at least that could be avoided in a place with only one gender.

Sorry for quoting the whole post. I'm using my phone at the moment and am pretty bad with it so I failed to just quote the parts that mattered for this post.



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07 Dec 2017, 7:33 am

smudge wrote:
I was talking to the OP. I’m not sure why you posted that.

Oh sorry, you were quoting HurtLoam, who im sure echoes the same said, unspoken feelings by women halfway around the site and, as unappealing as it is, is still being discussed by the ones who feel vilified and torn down in group dicussions and often when you try to back just one person, that's often what happens. You can't have mindless sex talks and find it acceptable and appealing to both parties or otherwise you're going to have these run ins on the same topic. As far as this site is concerned, there is no respect and i dont think the women have done anything wrong apart from not speaking up, voicing a strong enough opinion and getting walked all over by other critics in the process. I don't think anyone wants to walk away from unjust things being said, but sometimes you've got to and im fine with that, unless someone is just jumping on the bandwaggon supporting the same silly ideals and hurting the same member who might be having a rough time, in the process. It all depends on how the tone is set to begin with. Anyway, im sure everyone is grateful it's being brought to attention now.



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08 Dec 2017, 5:46 am

Isn't it depressing that communication issues, in this case they are between genders, we decide to fix by isolating us even more. I am talking about separate isolated gender forums. Isn't the main problem with L&D section exactly this. That one gender can't understand the other one? And isn't it also the main problem of aspies in relationships?

Isolating ourselves cannot fix communication issues. It would only hide them. And the real solution can only be in an open and honest dialog with everyone.



Empathy
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10 Dec 2017, 6:39 pm

MagicKnight wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
in here it seems that in certain topics your opinions and experiences are worth nothing if you're a woman


I am a man. Sometimes there were opinions and topics of mine that seemed worth nothing. So many times it was a woman against me, trying to put my experience to dust and refuting my rights to express myself.

Nevertheless I'm still here.



This part of the forum is for Women, it states Women, and women feel comfortable here. You can express yourself inn a male part of the topic, or in stats if you feel like discussing men or women's naked bodies amongst yourselves.
It's pretty simple really.



MakaylaTheAspie
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10 Dec 2017, 7:13 pm

Empathy wrote:
MagicKnight wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
in here it seems that in certain topics your opinions and experiences are worth nothing if you're a woman


I am a man. Sometimes there were opinions and topics of mine that seemed worth nothing. So many times it was a woman against me, trying to put my experience to dust and refuting my rights to express myself.

Nevertheless I'm still here.



This part of the forum is for Women, it states Women, and women feel comfortable here. You can express yourself inn a male part of the topic, or in stats if you feel like discussing men or women's naked bodies amongst yourselves.
It's pretty simple really.


I don't blame OP for feeling fed up with WP, or any website for the most part. It's also pretty condescending when someone who's not part of the targeted audience for the forum tries to dismiss someone's frustration.


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Empathy
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10 Dec 2017, 8:53 pm

^^ Pretending to be part of something you're not, is also pretty condescending, moreover if it's targeted at a female audience, and its one for every woman, not a single audience.



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16 Dec 2017, 8:34 am

Empathy wrote:
MagicKnight wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
in here it seems that in certain topics your opinions and experiences are worth nothing if you're a woman


I am a man. Sometimes there were opinions and topics of mine that seemed worth nothing. So many times it was a woman against me, trying to put my experience to dust and refuting my rights to express myself.

Nevertheless I'm still here.



This part of the forum is for Women, it states Women, and women feel comfortable here. You can express yourself inn a male part of the topic, or in stats if you feel like discussing men or women's naked bodies amongst yourselves.
It's pretty simple really.


This is exactly the sort of problem that has sent me here from L&D. I agree with the first comment. AND the second comment. Nobody should be made to feel that their opinion was worthless just because of their sex.

The third comment is a perfect example of making someone else feel unwelcome.