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Tequila
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02 Jan 2008, 5:20 am

My advice would be this: if you want to ask about personal ladies' things do it somewhere where you won't be identified. I wouldn't ask about some very personal things where I'm well-known so it works both ways.



hale_bopp
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02 Jan 2008, 5:55 am

If you asked them not to post, Fiona, it would have been fair if they respected your wishes. You can't stop them reading it, but if they post something stupid it deserves to be deleted.

I'm not very active here anymore, sorry.

Edit: If you didn't ask them not to post, then they probably thought you didn't care. Just remember to mention it in the header or post next time :)



ZanneMarie
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02 Jan 2008, 5:20 pm

Here's a thought. No means no.


Here's another thought - stop caring what they read or think. It's very freeing.


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auntyjack
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12 Jan 2008, 10:51 am

LogicGenerator wrote:
You know very well that some women believe you are beneath them and therefore your opinion is unimportant.



o i do like a male who is beneath me. ;)



Dhp
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13 Jan 2008, 2:42 am

I have an opinion. I think that this was one of the dumbest ideas on WP to have a one gender based forum. It's just the other gender bashing in disguise and censorship to the other gender. If women have private matters to discuss, send emails to those that want to listen. But anyone should be able to read anything that is public, and a forum is a public presentation. We do not live on islands, folks. Even aspies have small close circles that they make here or in real life. Private matters should be private, and forums should be public.



MissConstrue
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25 Feb 2008, 9:08 pm

Wrackspurt wrote:
Oh geez, give the poor boys a section of their own. Put them out of their misery here...


I agree, I've never seen so many men freak out.



Claradoon
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27 Feb 2008, 1:11 pm

This issue usually has my head spinning. I have an idea that might take the anguish out of it, at least for me. Should the description of the Forum be modified a little? Presently, it says this:

Women's Discussion
This is a place where women can feel safe to be themselves. "Having a male gynecologist is like going to an auto mechanic who doesn't own a car."

"Women's Discussion" and "safe place" sound to me like privacy is being offered. If it said "This is a place where men and women can discuss women's issues" then I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

I feel betrayed if somebody offers me privacy and then offers my whisperings to the public. If no privacy is being offered, it would be much kinder to say so in the description of the Forum.



gwenevyn
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27 Feb 2008, 11:28 pm

Claradoon wrote:
This issue usually has my head spinning. I have an idea that might take the anguish out of it, at least for me. Should the description of the Forum be modified a little? Presently, it says this:

Women's Discussion
This is a place where women can feel safe to be themselves. "Having a male gynecologist is like going to an auto mechanic who doesn't own a car."

"Women's Discussion" and "safe place" sound to me like privacy is being offered. If it said "This is a place where men and women can discuss women's issues" then I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

I feel betrayed if somebody offers me privacy and then offers my whisperings to the public. If no privacy is being offered, it would be much kinder to say so in the description of the Forum.



Hi Claradoon. We actually already modified the forum description a couple months ago, removing the part about "No guys allowed." That change seems to have resolved the confusion issues that used to crop up occasionally. Perhaps you are remembering the impression you had of the old description?


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ClosetAspy
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28 Feb 2008, 3:30 pm

For those of you women who have endured ongoing harassment because you have large breasts:


Have you considered a breast reduction? I was a double D and for years I endured just what you describe and worse. It was only until a physical therapist suggested breast reduction that I was able to do something about it. My surgeon said that if he couldn't get insurance approval because of physical reasons (shoulder problems), he would send me to a psychologist. He said "I know they will cover it for that, but I don't think it will be necessary." It wasn't. I had the surgery, and while he didn't take as much off as I would have liked, it is not as prominent as before and the sexual harassment has definitely dwindled. It's sad that some of us have to resort to surgery to stop that kind of attention but hey, if it works. (I totally understand why some Muslim women cover themselves from head to foot!) Anyway I feel much, much better since I had the reduction.



Kitsuneguy21
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14 Mar 2008, 9:56 pm

Triangular_Trees wrote:
Quote:
I think what you're talking about here is more a social anxiety problem, and I think you need to make peace with your breasts instead of making a blanket statement about leering men making you uncomfortable when perhaps a bit of skewed perception may be involved.


Making peace with my breasts won't stop men from reaching out and grabbing them, or otherwise touching them, because there so "full" or "large." which used to happen once every few months before I started wearing baggy clothes.
And thats not to count all the nasty comments in between about sex and whatnot. The stares are there, even my friends have noticed. And don't say well you just have to be careful where you go because I have the right to be walking in a mall or walmart, or to ride rides at amusement parks. Indeed if men didn't react that way, and so frequently at that, my only problem with them would be that they prevent me from carrying things and of course the back pain.

When you go out in public in a goddamn sports bra and regular cut t-shirt and thats what you counter, its not a social anxiety problem. Its a pervert problem. And even men who aren't perverts, look for their own gratification. I have the right as a human being to not be a sex object. That doesn't mean I have social anxiety, that means I desire to be treated like a person, not an object. Why do you have so much animosity to someone wanting to be treated like a human rather than a bed toy?

Just because I didn't always make contact doesn't mean I couldn't notice the fact that it was more rare for a man to be looking towards my face than it was for him to be looking toward my chest during a conversation.
If you saw a guy who looked like he had a huge penis, would you not be tempted to look? What if he was self-concious about having women stare at him?



Aridarr
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15 Mar 2008, 8:32 am

Kitsuneguy21 wrote:
Triangular_Trees wrote:
Quote:
I think what you're talking about here is more a social anxiety problem, and I think you need to make peace with your breasts instead of making a blanket statement about leering men making you uncomfortable when perhaps a bit of skewed perception may be involved.


Making peace with my breasts won't stop men from reaching out and grabbing them, or otherwise touching them, because there so "full" or "large." which used to happen once every few months before I started wearing baggy clothes.
And thats not to count all the nasty comments in between about sex and whatnot. The stares are there, even my friends have noticed. And don't say well you just have to be careful where you go because I have the right to be walking in a mall or walmart, or to ride rides at amusement parks. Indeed if men didn't react that way, and so frequently at that, my only problem with them would be that they prevent me from carrying things and of course the back pain.

When you go out in public in a goddamn sports bra and regular cut t-shirt and thats what you counter, its not a social anxiety problem. Its a pervert problem. And even men who aren't perverts, look for their own gratification. I have the right as a human being to not be a sex object. That doesn't mean I have social anxiety, that means I desire to be treated like a person, not an object. Why do you have so much animosity to someone wanting to be treated like a human rather than a bed toy?

Just because I didn't always make contact doesn't mean I couldn't notice the fact that it was more rare for a man to be looking towards my face than it was for him to be looking toward my chest during a conversation.
If you saw a guy who looked like he had a huge penis, would you not be tempted to look? What if he was self-concious about having women stare at him?


Women are not obsessed with penises the way men are with breasts. And are you suggesting it would be acceptable to grab a man's penis because it is so full and large? Assuming it isn't, why is it any better for a man to touch a woman's breasts without her consent?


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okay
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27 Mar 2008, 11:27 pm

I agree this is sort of rude. There should be a "Men's Discussion" forum as well.



Deathklaat
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05 Apr 2008, 5:54 pm

I agree, there should be a men's forum.


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Jainaday
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11 Apr 2008, 4:23 pm

ClosetAspy wrote:
For those of you women who have endured ongoing harassment because you have large breasts:


Have you considered a breast reduction? I was a double D and for years I endured just what you describe and worse. It was only until a physical therapist suggested breast reduction that I was able to do something about it. My surgeon said that if he couldn't get insurance approval because of physical reasons (shoulder problems), he would send me to a psychologist. He said "I know they will cover it for that, but I don't think it will be necessary." It wasn't. I had the surgery, and while he didn't take as much off as I would have liked, it is not as prominent as before and the sexual harassment has definitely dwindled. It's sad that some of us have to resort to surgery to stop that kind of attention but hey, if it works. (I totally understand why some Muslim women cover themselves from head to foot!) Anyway I feel much, much better since I had the reduction.


I appreciate it as a practical solution, but I feel strongly that we shouldn't have to hack apart our bodies to be treated with basic human respect in public places.

For some fantastic commentary on this subject, watch the film Dreamworlds (there are three editions, all good and slightly different from one another, progressing as culture has changed with time) if you can get a hold of it.

http://www.mediaed.org/about (read the history at the bottom of the page)
and
http://www.mediaed.org/videos/MediaGend ... eamworlds3

Purchase is difficult and bootlegs are rare. .


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Jainaday
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11 Apr 2008, 4:38 pm

Also;

If the problem with the men's forum before was excessive obscenity, perhaps it could be re-established with very clear ground rules laid out?

The reason there are women's only gyms and women's only dorms is that almost all men like mixed gender environments for those things, and a significant number of women don't. What I often see when men post wanting a men's forum is not so much that they feel they need a private place to air male issues, but that they're hurt at being left out. . . they don't seek the thing its self, but rather to avoid a negation.

I'm still in favor of the idea of a men's forum run by the same rules as the women's forum, as long as the unacceptable content rules are actually enforced (in both places)-

This is the official definition of what's unacceptable on Wrongplanet, from the rules:

Unacceptable content includes swearing; racist, sexist, homophobic language; behavior intended to provoke or belittle other members; violent or sexually demeaning content; and discussion of excretory function. Posting graphic images or videos of people or animals being harmed is prohibited.


I understand and appreciate the level of enforcement that has been chosen for this forum, but because it amounts to only responding to direct attacks when those attacks are reported, some seek protection from these things in other ways.

I think language intended to belittle- to make little of someone's abilities in argument, or of them as a human being for believing the things they believe- are common here. . . and I'm fine with that. However, I think that if a group is genuinely seeking greater shelter from these things in a limited context, there should be a place for that.


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Apuleyo
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11 Apr 2008, 4:45 pm

Right now I don't have the time to read and analyze all the comments in this topic so my apologies if I am repeating something already said.

Now, for my comment:

This is wrong. This is the women's discussion forum, agreed, but if males can't have an opinion in a matter that is related to them because some woman doesn't want them there, that is unfair.

What if that woman was wrong? What if just for the sake of blaming something to someone, the rest of the women agree? Isn't that bias?

Specially here. An auties/aspies forum. A place were supposedly, males are if not smarter at least less dumb. A place were macho attitudes shouldn't exist as they are not logical.

SOME, and only SOME, extreme feminist views are not logical either. But because they are RELATED to a movement that IS LOGIC, a movement that is clearing the way for women to be treated with the respect and equality they deserve as human beings.

So... if the macho attitude is wrong, why the feminist attitude is right?

No feminist, no machismo. Humanism.

I am a humanist. And the fact that I have balls hanging outside and not inside doesn't make me any less of a person that views people equally.

I admit, a lot of men can be jerks, even autistic ones. But if you ban all men from posting somewhere just because one person doesn't want there, you will also ban men that can make significant contributions to the topic discussed.

I believe that the men here are smart enough to don't bash women's opinions just because they want to defend themselves. I believe that these men can actually make a valid point.

A good point is one thousand times better than a bash.

If you don't allow all sides to voice their concerns there will be a possibility for the wrong ideas/points/opinions to grow an expand and cause more prejudice. Because men can be victims of prejudice too. I have been.

In my life I was looked down for many reasons. For being a jew, for being latino, for being a white latino, for being "weird", for being a man, for a lot of reasons. Most men here have been victims of prejudice, probably most of them just for being aspies, but that fact makes them more aware of the prejudice against women.

So please, give us a chance. You want equality. Then be an example of it.


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