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firemonkey
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18 Sep 2021, 4:53 pm

I've come across plenty of people talking about 'spoons' in terms of disability, but have never been able to apply it to my own situation. Is there a simple formula to work out how many 'spoons' you have , and how many you've used up for the day?



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18 Sep 2021, 5:26 pm

No, there isn't. It is a rough generalization that explains what having disability is like to those without, but there is no formula to determine if you have X spoons or what costs a spoon, what does not cost a spoon. It is simply an analogy used to help people without disability understand those who do.

All you really need to know is how your disability impacts you. Those are the things that take away your spoons. If you get to the end of your day and feel exhausted or feel as if you can't do one more thing, you have reached your limit. Or perhaps you have overwhelm or a meltdown. Then your spoons are out. You might know from experience what can get you closer to these moments, but you won't ever know how many spoons there are.

It is a bit of a misleading analogy, especially for people with ASD who want a defined or literal limit described. After looking it up (it was referred to by a few people but never described to me previously), I can see how this system would infuriate me due to it being vague. So my suggestion: Ignore it for purposes of understanding yourself, but you can use it as an analogy if you want for others to understand you and how hard things are for you.



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19 Sep 2021, 3:03 am

Spoons theory is a metaphor about how those with limited internal resources goes about their daily life.

It is not an applicable practice, but like an analogy narrative of sorts to compare those who do not have the same internal limited resources.

.. Even I found it confusing at first. :lol: I really thought it was an applicable practice.



If you want an applicable practice that I deem it coincide with the narrative... Look up for Energy Accounting.


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firemonkey
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19 Sep 2021, 4:02 am

^ ^^ Thanks, both of you. I'm seeing this as being down to reduced physical resources rather than reduced cognitive/mental health resources. I freely admit I might be wrong in doing so. There's quite a few things I struggle with in a non physical way, but my physical issues can be reduced down to chronic lower back and hip area pain(inflammation?) & a worsening(they've not been good for over 60 years) of balance,coordination and gait. There's also swollen feet, the right one especially.

I lead a rather simple lifestyle. That , and good step family support, reduces the stress that can have a detrimental effect on my mental well being.



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19 Sep 2021, 4:19 am

Well I never heard of it..

Idk I thought spooning was cuddling with their partner if the already dont even accept that as term, well f**k them. are olymics people banned from dating fellow athletes or something? Like f*****g hell why didn't it just get cancelled this year. Like who really cares about the olmpics, to most peape it is an annoyance that prevents them watching the shows they do not want to watch.


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19 Sep 2021, 5:34 am

I get my physical body really effected by mental stress and overload etc. For years (Most of my life) I assumed I had a physical problem and refused to accept that it could be mental when my Mother or a doctor suggested it. I could not see it, but I can now and it is so obvious to me now that I can directly relate pyscological stress to physical weakness. Why I could not fathom it in the past is when I could be feeling fine both mentally and physically and "Bam!" I would suddenly be on a physical go slow and it would be all I could do to ride back home and collapse. I did not realize how sensitivity triggers can suddenly kick in.
The most annoying part was that it took me most of my life until I actually came onto this site to work it out with the help of people in here. Everything is so obvious now!
But if I was (I am awaiting an assessment) diagnosed before I became an adult I would have learned all of this and saved myself years of mental and physical torture as countless numbers of times it felt like physically, that I was druding through thick mud in some sort of prisoner of war camp weak with starvation just to try to keep going until the end of the work shift... And once I was out of the trigger zone on my way back home I would semi recover or recover my energy, but I would be mentally exhausted which would create difficulty because physically I was awake... So sleeping was an issue. Or I could be the other way around... ( I am still trying to work things out).
What I really suffered with is when I made it back home when all I wanted to do is relax and do nothing for the rest of the evening, others would be waiting for physical help and accuse me of being lazy, or I would un-announced suddenly find I am required to drive my Mum shopping or somewhere else. (My Mum gets talked into helping people and she does not drive, and she will not say no or she promises things for people, so I have to drive her.... And it is only recently now my youngest brother drives (As I was driving him aroud) and he works long hours that he realizes how much driving can be tiring when one is already hard hit from work).

But I found that somehow I was putting in many times more energy when I used to work then others if we were doing the same task and it was partly due to triggers and due to anxiety/stress. But as it was "Normal" to me I did not realize that others are not the same. I just could not work it out. One assumes everyone fels the same physical energy as oneself does for doing a task, but I just could not work out why I was so hard hit, and others... It was as if they had not been in work? It was soo "Odd".


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19 Sep 2021, 5:50 am

I'm a "spoonie". I have chronic illness and struggle with sensory issues and my mental health.

The Spoon Theory is typically used to highlight the differences in energy reserves/expenditure in those with chronic illness, mental health issues, sensory issues, etc. The infographic below generally describes the Spoon Theory, but it is important to remember that different activities may "consume" or "use up" more spoons in different people. The Spoon Theory is basically a way for us to explain our limitations to people who may not necessarily understand what we go through on a daily basis.

If we are feeling tired, we might tell a loved one "I'm running low on spoons this afternoon." It also provides a way for us to set healthy boundaries, as we can say "I only have one spoon left. I'm saving it for X activity."

Image
https://kaleidoscopefightinglupus.org/spoon-theory/#1


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Nades
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19 Sep 2021, 7:46 am

Spoons is just an analogy for the limited coping skills people with autism often have. I for example do have "spoons" in the sense I can't handle prolonged social interaction for long. I do long hours in work and when I get home my "spoons" have been used (in other words I can't handle any more "people")

I need to wait for my spoons to "recharge" before I can handle any more social interaction and going out with friends for example is difficult as my spoons are often completely used doing regular long weeks.

Other autistics have more spoons they can make use of and some have almost nothing in the way of spoons to use and are always overwhelmed by simple activities. There is no number of spoons and it's entirety arbitrary to the individual.



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19 Sep 2021, 8:23 am

Nades wrote:
Spoons is just an analogy for the limited coping skills people with autism often have. I for example do have "spoons" in the sense I can't handle prolonged social interaction for long. I do long hours in work and when I get home my "spoons" have been used (in other words I can't handle any more "people")

I need to wait for my spoons to "recharge" before I can handle any more social interaction and going out with friends for example is difficult as my spoons are often completely used doing regular long weeks.

Other autistics have more spoons they can make use of and some have almost nothing in the way of spoons to use and are always overwhelmed by simple activities. There is no number of spoons and it's entirety arbitrary to the individual.


Yes! Great description! :)


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naturalplastic
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19 Sep 2021, 9:23 am

So "spoons" are like the bars on your cell phone?



SabbraCadabra
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19 Sep 2021, 10:18 am

firemonkey wrote:
I'm seeing this as being down to reduced physical resources rather than reduced cognitive/mental health resources.

It's either/or. It's whatever you tend to run out of that keeps you going throughout the day...most people don't attribute their "spoons" to any one specific thing, not that I've noticed.

But I guess you could have "brain spoons" and "body spoons" if you want =)

Maybe some "spiritual spoons", too. "Emotional spoons".


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Nades
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19 Sep 2021, 11:21 am

naturalplastic wrote:
So "spoons" are like the bars on your cell phone?


Pretty much yes. Depending on how taxing an activity is we use more energy and bars. Aspies are born with naturally poor batteries.



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19 Sep 2021, 11:30 am

I had to look it up, and Wikipedia gave me the most understandable answer: Spoon Theory is a metaphor that is used to describe the amount of mental or physical energy a person has available for daily activities and tasks.  The theory was developed by Christine Miserandino as a way to express how it felt to have lupus.  She used spoons to provide a visual representation of units of energy that a person might have and how chronic illness forces her to plan out her days and actions in advance, so as not to run out of energy, or spoons, before the end of the day.

It makes sense when I consider the idea that I cannot afford to assign as many "spoons" to dealing with stupid people as I can to dealing with complex A.I.-based control systems.


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Nades
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19 Sep 2021, 11:46 am

Fnord wrote:
I had to look it up, and Wikipedia gave me the most understandable answer: Spoon Theory is a metaphor that is used to describe the amount of mental or physical energy a person has available for daily activities and tasks.  The theory was developed by Christine Miserandino as a way to express how it felt to have lupus.  She used spoons to provide a visual representation of units of energy that a person might have and how chronic illness forces her to plan out her days and actions in advance, so as not to run out of energy, or spoons, before the end of the day.

It makes sense when I consider the idea that I cannot afford to assign as many "spoons" to dealing with stupid people as I can to dealing with complex A.I.-based control systems.



What if your boss asked to make an A.I. system that represents the thought process of a stupid person? How quickly will your spoons drain? Will you be able to make it to break time before locking yourself in a toilet cubicle with a very "bad belly" and hope nobody notices? I've used that trick before and everyone notices.



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19 Sep 2021, 3:09 pm

While it is a way to describe an invisible effect of disability to others it is also useful for the disabled. Especially for some newly diagnosed autistics trying to figure things out.


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19 Sep 2021, 3:27 pm

Nades wrote:
What if your boss asked to make an A.I. system that represents the thought process of a stupid person?
You are asking a hypothetical question regarding artificial stupidity.  Do we not have too many "My Little Pony" books and movies already?
Nades wrote:
How quickly will your spoons drain?
None of my eating utensils would drain because I would refuse to give a fork.


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