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WeirdMetronome
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25 Oct 2021, 6:57 am

ZackMichel wrote:
Some habits that cause me distress include:

- trying to respond to personal questions with a 'normal' answer that might be dishonest
- putting on a smiling, 'engaged' expression constantly
- silencing repetitive words/phrases, or keeping them in my head
- sneaking around to avoid social interactions entirely and avoid 'messing up'
- spending free time rehearsing rhetorical conversations or 're-doing' recent conversations
- copying 'successful' people's tone of voice and gestures rather than being 'natural' about it
- hiding emotions in response to loud sounds/strong smells/loud talking people



All of these with the exception of maybe the repetitive words/phrases part all cause me a huge amount of anxiety too. :( The problem for me at this point is that it's really hard to stop doing the masking, I don't know how to stop it. To be honest I don't really know what parts are me masking and which parts would be genuinely me anymore.



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25 Oct 2021, 7:00 am

But if you don't mask and you end up upsetting people or being judged by strangers, wouldn't that cause anxiety/depression too?

I masked more as a child than I do now. Now I just mask subconsciously when at work or around people I know, or not at all, but when I'm in public on my own I feel I have to mask more consciously because I feel that strangers are quick to judge harshly. Also the unwritten rules are harder when in public places, because you will be judged if you express any kind of emotion, and if you're with someone the only emotion you can express is positivity, but not too much of it. Basically you've got to be calm and cool in public, and it's hard to subconsciously be calm and cool when you have ADHD. :lol:

Everybody masks to an extent, but most mask subconsciously, even in public. A lot of my masking is subconscious too, but not so much in public.


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25 Oct 2021, 7:25 am

Any failed social expectations and and mismatch of preconceptions causes anxiety and depression -- whether "accommodated" by masking or not.

Being forcefully have to mask will at least doubles the cause of anxiety and depression.

And having to mask because of said social anxieties is still anxiety that would lead to depression rooted by said expectations.

Therefore, being socially driven and not have those needs met, OR/AND have 'fantasies' yet not of match in reality of how being social is what actually causes depression and anxiety.


It is a conundrum that requires serious self reflection than the means of 24/7 acting skills and trauma induced apathy alone, really.

Said self reflection usually happens in later age -- whether they're NT or not.
It's only a bit sooner to those who do not have the ability to mask.


And yes, even asocials have to self reflect but in a very different direction from those who aren't, and still depending on whatever beliefs or expectations one hold.


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WeirdMetronome
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25 Oct 2021, 8:56 am

Joe90 wrote:
But if you don't mask and you end up upsetting people or being judged by strangers, wouldn't that cause anxiety/depression too?


I'm not sure my mask is good enough so I think it probably puts people off more that I mask badly lol. Maybe it is better to not mask in this case. I think it was easier to mask as a child because you can get away with making mistakes compared to as an adult. I can't really mask subconsciously at all so most of my interactions feel pretty awkward unless it's with people that I am close to where I don't have to mask.

I tried cycling through some different masks and none of them really fit that well. :P

Not that I say anything that would upset people, I just have more issues with knowing what to say in casual conversation mostly.



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25 Oct 2021, 8:59 am

One of my coping strategies is eccentrism.
By being obviously "weird", you get control over your public image as weird. I found out, people are much more forgiving when I look super nerdy than they were when I did my best to look and act normal. Kind of, now they know what to expect.


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25 Oct 2021, 3:35 pm

Joe90 wrote:
But if you don't mask and you end up upsetting people or being judged by strangers, wouldn't that cause anxiety/depression too?


Depends on your social context. If you're being forced to interact with ableist people on their terms, masking might be your best option. But if you can, it's far better to just avoid situations where you have to impress people who hate you for being autistic. And random strangers tend to have very little opportunity to affect your life if you choose not to dwell on their actions. Learning to shrug off negative interactions as "well, that person was being an as*hole" rather than trying to figure out some way that you're at fault for the interaction going badly is a very good way to avoid anxiety/depression.



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25 Oct 2021, 3:39 pm

magz wrote:
One of my coping strategies is eccentrism.
By being obviously "weird", you get control over your public image as weird. I found out, people are much more forgiving when I look super nerdy than they were when I did my best to look and act normal. Kind of, now they know what to expect.

I figured this out as a little kid. I embraced being the "weird" kid and I noticed people picked on me a bit less. It was more "normal" for me to be "weird" if I didn't try so hard to seem "normal" in the first place.



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25 Oct 2021, 3:45 pm

Any kind of masking causes me distress now.


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25 Oct 2021, 5:56 pm

Ettina wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
But if you don't mask and you end up upsetting people or being judged by strangers, wouldn't that cause anxiety/depression too?


Depends on your social context. If you're being forced to interact with ableist people on their terms, masking might be your best option. But if you can, it's far better to just avoid situations where you have to impress people who hate you for being autistic. And random strangers tend to have very little opportunity to affect your life if you choose not to dwell on their actions. Learning to shrug off negative interactions as "well, that person was being an as*hole" rather than trying to figure out some way that you're at fault for the interaction going badly is a very good way to avoid anxiety/depression.


I know, but I haven't quite learnt how to make myself have that "it's their problem not mine" mindset. Being judged by strangers seems to have more of an effect on me than being judged by my own friends and work colleagues and other people who I know. I think it stems back to when I was at school, I seemed to be picked on more by kids I didn't know than kids I did know, usually when I was walking home. So the social anxiety I get around strangers sticks with me now.


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25 Oct 2021, 6:03 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Ettina wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
But if you don't mask and you end up upsetting people or being judged by strangers, wouldn't that cause anxiety/depression too?


Depends on your social context. If you're being forced to interact with ableist people on their terms, masking might be your best option. But if you can, it's far better to just avoid situations where you have to impress people who hate you for being autistic. And random strangers tend to have very little opportunity to affect your life if you choose not to dwell on their actions. Learning to shrug off negative interactions as "well, that person was being an as*hole" rather than trying to figure out some way that you're at fault for the interaction going badly is a very good way to avoid anxiety/depression.


I know, but I haven't quite learnt how to make myself have that "it's their problem not mine" mindset. Being judged by strangers seems to have more of an effect on me than being judged by my own friends and work colleagues and other people who I know. I think it stems back to when I was at school, I seemed to be picked on more by kids I didn't know than kids I did know, usually when I was walking home. So the social anxiety I get around strangers sticks with me now.


I'd imagine if everyone was consistently kind that would help at least as much as adopting the it's their problem not mine because the root of the problem (people mistreating you or singling you out).

As much I as rely on it heavily that it's their problem not mine defence mechanism can cause someone problems when they employ it in response to negative feedback they ought to be considering.


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25 Oct 2021, 6:13 pm

I just care about how I look in public. I don't like being stared at or laughed at, it makes me feel unhappy. I don't want people thinking I'm some sort of threat, or that I'm "mad". Also not masking in public might lead to bullying. I have an autistic friend who stims in public (like flaps his hands and hums loudly) and he's been beaten up because of it, and people have made fun of him, filmed him and put it all over Facebook, titling the video "the town's spastic", which is very hurtful indeed.

I don't stim (only socially acceptable stims).

But the importance of masking in public might be because my parents have always been sensitive to humiliation, so that's where I get it from. When I was younger I used to lose it if there was a crying baby near me in a store or a restaurant, and my mum would lecture me for it. So as an adult I have learnt to mask whenever there's a crying baby near me, although I still get annoyed but I don't show it. So that is masking. If I didn't mask, I'd be getting angry and drawing attention to myself.


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25 Oct 2021, 10:14 pm

Regardless, an individual who is forced to mask due to explicit upbringing of forcing someone to interact -- is a completely different scenario from someone who willfully masked themselves because they cared or worried about social norms.

The former wouldn't have serious mental health issues if they weren't coaxed (sometimes battered) and conditioned to mask.
The latter would ended up having mental health issues regardless, how serious may vary but still more voluntarily mask.



:lol: I never cared about social norms.
Yet I have pride, I have beliefs and expectations, and conscience is a nuisance.

Heck if I want to mask, I'd take it to the next level instead -- which is no longer surface level masking about hiding autism, but outright change and development.

To do so would need to understand the nature of personality and behavioral traits within an individual.

Social behaviors are easy for me.
It's more of a physical thing to me to be able to blend and pass, instead of mental labors of socially right and wrong.
However, I cannot mask the emotional aspects that prompted certain behaviors.



The closest thing I masked autism?

Not social compensation like most aspies stress themselves over, but language learning compensation which I happened to enjoy and somewhat fascinating by itself.
It's less of a mask with social goals and more of a developmental pursuit.

And no one -- not my parents, not my teachers coaxed me nor even aware of this. I'm just drawn to whatever represented as language.

Without language compensation... I won't have verbal communication that is developmentally closer to my own age.
I'd be stuck with attempting to verbally communicate in quotes and rigid scripts. :lol:


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25 Oct 2021, 10:49 pm

magz wrote:
One of my coping strategies is eccentrism.
By being obviously "weird", you get control over your public image as weird. I found out, people are much more forgiving when I look super nerdy than they were when I did my best to look and act normal. Kind of, now they know what to expect.


After going through serious burnout 4-5 years ago, I gave up on about 70% of my masking. Now I'm perceived as weirder, but that's just become part of my persona, which most people who matter to me can accept. It probably also helps that I now have a mostly artistic peer group. Such people tend to be more open to eccentricity.


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26 Oct 2021, 8:38 am

Yes, masking causes depression/anxiety for me. I am too often am silent when I have important and valid insights (and needs).

Thanks for study link. I skimmed it and this jumped out at me "Camouflaging is not necessarily a beneficial behaviour, and should not be regularly expected or encouraged for individuals with ASC, as this may risk increasing mental health problems."

What's key for me is how to "prepare" NTs. My instinct is "I know I am supposed to .... What actually is ..." Of course "supposed to" is fairly harsh - which indicates that masking has been painful for me. So perhaps "I know most people would..." or "it's expected..." or --- oh CRAP where's the unmasking script?!



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27 Oct 2021, 9:40 am

I only mask to the outside world when I have to socialize. As soon as I get home it slips off and I can be my true self around my family.

Despite having a life long diagnoses, I never knew of the term masking until 30 years old. My life makes a whole lot more sense now. It goes to show that even with a diagnosis, it's the education of what autism is to the person so that they can understand that really matters.


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29 Oct 2021, 4:51 pm

I can relate in what is said:

- trying to respond to personal questions with a 'normal' answer that might be dishonest yes
- putting on a smiling, 'engaged' expression constantly. Yes to
- silencing repetitive words/phrases, or keeping them in my head tes
- sneaking around to avoid social interactions entirely and avoid 'messing up' depend with who, I talk a lot to my friend, not at all with other people unless they are really engaging
- spending free time rehearsing rhetorical conversations or 're-doing' recent conversations yes, but also dialogue I imagine
- copying 'successful' people's tone of voice and gestures rather than being 'natural' about it No, because when I talk to people, what make me natural is what make me feel good among them
- hiding emotions in response to loud sounds/strong smells/loud talking people not really

the true problem is that I can't talk about deeper feeling, I tend to feel lonely, so I wanted to talk with a friend, the problem being that when the discussion started (I told her that I wanted to talk about that by mail) but I couldn't speak. That's my true problem about masking, I can assume my differences, but not talk about deeper feelings