Ten Commandments from Judaism help me understand

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FranzOren
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22 May 2024, 3:27 pm

The Ten Commandments from Judaism help me understand right from wrong, even though I am delusional most of the time.



funeralxempire
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22 May 2024, 3:44 pm

The 10 Commandments seem quite arbitrary and not at all like a good source of morality.

Several of them are just about stoking and protecting YHWH's ego, so those ones seem like the easiest to dismiss out of hand.


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FranzOren
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22 May 2024, 3:48 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
The 10 Commandments seem quite arbitrary and not at all like a good source of morality.

Several of them are just about stoking and protecting YHWH's ego, so those ones seem like the easiest to dismiss out of hand.


Is there a better alternative I can learn from?



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22 May 2024, 3:54 pm

I think the Ten Commandments are likely a good starting place.

Things get complicated but they would seem a straightforward starting place.

Perhaps, though, as you go through life you will decide a few additional Commandments would make sense. You could have your own personal eleventh commandment, twelfth commandment, etc., as you discover things that you think are very important.


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funeralxempire
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22 May 2024, 3:57 pm

FranzOren wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The 10 Commandments seem quite arbitrary and not at all like a good source of morality.

Several of them are just about stoking and protecting YHWH's ego, so those ones seem like the easiest to dismiss out of hand.


Is there a better alternative I can learn from?


I'd argue empathy and respect for the rights of others are the most reasonable basis for morality.

It's a bit more effort than just having a list, but it also helps with building an understanding of why you believe something is right or wrong as well.

If you let a list be your source of morality you'll never need to understand why something is wrong deeper than 'it's on the list'. If you actually consider right from wrong you'll always be able to argue why you believe something is right or wrong.


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funeralxempire
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22 May 2024, 4:01 pm

Double Retired wrote:
I think the Ten Commandments are likely a good starting place.

Things get complicated but they would seem a straightforward starting place.

Perhaps, though, as you go through life you will decide a few additional Commandments would make sense. You could have your own personal eleventh commandment, twelfth commandment, etc., as you discover things that you think are very important.


Image

I'd argue the first stone can thrown away entirely, none of those are moral issues. I'd argue the last commandment can be thrown away as well, again, it's not a moral issue.

Wanting isn't the issue, it's how one acts to satiate those wants that can be a problem.


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FranzOren
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22 May 2024, 4:04 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Double Retired wrote:
I think the Ten Commandments are likely a good starting place.

Things get complicated but they would seem a straightforward starting place.

Perhaps, though, as you go through life you will decide a few additional Commandments would make sense. You could have your own personal eleventh commandment, twelfth commandment, etc., as you discover things that you think are very important.


Image


I'd argue the first stone can thrown away entirely, none of those are moral issues. I'd argue the last commandment can be thrown away as well, again, it's not a moral issue.

Wanting isn't the issue, it's how one acts to satiate those wants that can be a problem.


I see.



FranzOren
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22 May 2024, 4:10 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
FranzOren wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The 10 Commandments seem quite arbitrary and not at all like a good source of morality.

Several of them are just about stoking and protecting YHWH's ego, so those ones seem like the easiest to dismiss out of hand.


Is there a better alternative I can learn from?


I'd argue empathy and respect for the rights of others are the most reasonable basis for morality.

It's a bit more effort than just having a list, but it also helps with building an understanding of why you believe something is right or wrong as well.

If you let a list be your source of morality you'll never need to understand why something is wrong deeper than 'it's on the list'. If you actually consider right from wrong you'll always be able to argue why you believe something is right or wrong.


I feel bad because I lack cognitive empathy when I am severely delusional. I say things I don't mean to say when I am unstable and end up hurting my friend's feelings and they block me, police involvement.



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22 May 2024, 4:22 pm

yes indeed , all the cognitive empathy does not help if your getting messed over .And that is the intent of the possible offender....But if its rules to live by cannot recommend any specific documents , but a personal study in ethics .
Even business ethics .And maybe some business type transactional analysis class. Just suggestions in case you feel short on cognitive Empathy.


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22 May 2024, 4:26 pm

Although must admit to the 10 commandments being a good starter course for most growing adults .but beware of those whom do not at all. :(


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22 May 2024, 4:31 pm

We all have our good days and our bad days.

On bad days the 10 Commandments (perhaps with a few of his own) might be a manageable starting place for decision-making.

I know that on my bad days I like to keep things simple.


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22 May 2024, 4:32 pm

On the contrary. Commandments four through ten are all fine, and are rather universal, and not even peculiar to the ten commandments.

4)Honor mom and dad. Sure why not?

5)I am down with not murdering

6)and down with not doing adultery

7) and with not stealing.

eight) and with not bearing false witness

9, and 10) Though I dont see the point of criminalizing thought via an actual law...I agree that its good advice not to envy, or "covet". Be it you neighbor's house, livestock, slaves, electrical appliances, car, tractor, land, or spouse. Different traditions dice up all of that above 'coveting' differently into commandments 9 and 10.

One through three are rather arbitrary because they are about loyalty to the particular tribe and loyalty to that tribe's deity.

But even four through ten could be collapsed down into one commandment...indeed, according to Hillel, the entire Torah (old Testament) can be collapsed down that same one three sentence statement: "Dont mistreat others. That is the whole Torah. The rest is just explanation."



FranzOren
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22 May 2024, 4:50 pm

That makes sense.



funeralxempire
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22 May 2024, 4:54 pm

FranzOren wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
FranzOren wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The 10 Commandments seem quite arbitrary and not at all like a good source of morality.

Several of them are just about stoking and protecting YHWH's ego, so those ones seem like the easiest to dismiss out of hand.


Is there a better alternative I can learn from?


I'd argue empathy and respect for the rights of others are the most reasonable basis for morality.

It's a bit more effort than just having a list, but it also helps with building an understanding of why you believe something is right or wrong as well.

If you let a list be your source of morality you'll never need to understand why something is wrong deeper than 'it's on the list'. If you actually consider right from wrong you'll always be able to argue why you believe something is right or wrong.


I feel bad because I lack cognitive empathy when I am severely delusional. I say things I don't mean to say when I am unstable and end up hurting my friend's feelings and they block me, police involvement.


That's understandable, I've dealt with similar myself. If you're in a state where you're both uninhibited and can't apply empathy it's a lot harder to consider things from an empathetic perspective but that doesn't mean another source of morality is more likely to inhibit you.


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FranzOren
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22 May 2024, 5:06 pm

That makes sense.



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22 May 2024, 8:32 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
On the contrary. Commandments four through ten are all fine, and are rather universal, and not even peculiar to the ten commandments.

4)Honor mom and dad. Sure why not?

Not all parents are worthy of honor. As a mom, I respect my kid. In my opinion, honor and respect should go both ways, but the Old Testament is more about obeying authority.

Quote:
But even four through ten could be collapsed down into one commandment...indeed, according to Hillel, the entire Torah (old Testament) can be collapsed down that same one three sentence statement: "Dont mistreat others. That is the whole Torah. The rest is just explanation."

The Torah encourages mistreatment (e.g. stoning and other inhumane punishments for insignificant behavior) in a lot of places. It’s not a great source book when it comes to morality, but it’s interesting from a historical perspective.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 22 May 2024, 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.