"Self-discovery" and "self-creation" metaphors

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How would you call this thing you're doing to understand yourself?
discovering yourself 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
creating yourself 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
interpreting yourself 25%  25%  [ 1 ]
I understand myself intuitively and don't think any of these terms apply 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
something completely different 75%  75%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 4

P. Zombie
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07 Oct 2024, 9:26 am

It seems to me that in the common narration about diagnosing autism in adults or teenagers (and most other stuff as well) only “self-discovery” metaphor is used. There are plenty of accounts of people having this “wow, that’s me effect” when they found out about autism, and almost none of people having serious doubts. And if someone has doubts, it's just called impostor syndrome, as if one needed any more syndromes :wink: That’s a bit perplexing for me, because I never felt like I discovered anything in myself (it applies to all stuff, not only autism). Also, that makes me wonder if my diagnosis isn’t just a side effect of the expanded criteria and subjectivity of a diagnostic process.

But maybe I just don’t understand the “self-discovery” metaphor. For me it requires this sudden feeling of revelation, e.g. you're reading about autism and intuitively feel that’s the right description of you. I never had such feeling – I have to consciously interpret myself using “raw data” of my emotions, experiences and behaviours on the one side, and on the other side - labels and theories from science and culture. I see myself as divided into two parts. The first one is the emotional-mechanical part, which is anxious, avoidant, dysregulated, and, unfortunately, makes most decisions in my life. The second is the rational part, which tries to understand the first part by conscious analysis. If that counts as self-discovery, than ok, case closed, but it feels much more like self-creation for me. There is no self without unifying the raw data in one way or another – and, probably, there is more than one way to do it.

I didn’t always feel this way. Before reaching adulthood, I hoped that the first part will eventually mature and gain some “adult intuitions”. Besides, I lacked mental tools to analyse myself – Polish education is very poor in teaching rational thinking and argumentation. So, I began the second major in cognitive science, partly to escape adulthood, partly because it was interesting, and partly to, maybe, understand myself better. And there I learned about analytical philosophy – the kind of philosophy that uses logical analysis, somewhat similar to mathematical logics. I didn’t become a professional philosopher, but liked the precise language of this field and started to imitate it in daily thinking, also about myself. When the rational part of my mind had the reason (falling behind in “adulthoodness”) and the tool (language of analytical philosophy), it started the ever-going process of self-interpretation and self-creation :nerdy:

I don’t know if it makes much sense :wink: The questions for you are:
• How do you understand self-discovery, self-creation, self-interpretation or other self-somethings?
• Do you also have something similar to this discrepancy between emotional-mechanical part and rational part? I know that the idea of “emotions vs. rationality” conflict is as old as the world, but I guess most people don’t feel it that way. Rather, emotions are used to guide reasoning and the following actions are seen as consistent with the unified self. Or something like that :D
• For those diagnosed in adulthood or later teenage years, did you have this “wow, that’s me” effect at some point, or rather, did you slowly accept it as “the least improbable explanation, given current knowledge”?

Sorry for any grammatical (or other) errors. I didn't sleep well tonight :wink:


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CockneyRebel
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08 Oct 2024, 6:43 pm

I call it interpreting myself because when I found out who I really am, that's what I was doing. I was looking for past clues as to what shaped me into the person that I am today. All that started in the early January of 2016.


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09 Oct 2024, 6:55 am

I don't have such narrative...
Had I've been underdiagnosed, I'll likely fail to self diagnose because I cannot relate to a lot of the common circumstances.

All I kept discovering is how I get increasingly less relatable towards the common experiences and circumstances of most autistics.
Not because I'm 'less autistic and relate more to NTs' -- I relate to NTs even less in fact. But more like my reactions are just different, things that many autistics go through -- I surpass them, work around with it, etc.

It helps or do not help at all that I seem to be outgrowing things...
Like how to many, trauma and mental health issues are a fixed thing and some even considered it as "a part of their autism" -- while that's something I want to figure it out and eventually overcome, which I did more than few times.

From the way they react to situations, to how they approach certain issues...

Oh sure I have sensory issues, but that did not made me avoidant or addicted.
Oh sure, I had some anxiety issues that spanned for years, except, instead, I overcame it before adulthood. Without medications. Without therapy.
Oh sure I have social issues, but I don't feel loneliness or mourning over missed opportunities and whatever typical ideas of success even meant.

While I know I have something that many do not have...
... I'd rather know what others have that I don't, more like it.

Instead of looking at other autistics trajectory and fates as if it's something I'll relate to or have to look forward to, most of it are pitfalls, things I'd rather dodge out of the way.

P. Zombie wrote:
I don’t know if it makes much sense :wink: The questions for you are:
• How do you understand self-discovery, self-creation, self-interpretation or other self-somethings?

Most of my self discovery is that a lot of things that applies to others just really do not apply to me.

And it's not this overt stuff like 'why people are not like me?' and more like 'why do I not get intended effects of *insert certain techniques/consumables here*?'

Thus I have to create systems for my own, on my own. I'm still exploring what just works, and what doesn't because everything within me is complicated -- I really wish mine is so simple that I never have to spend years of trial and error.

Tired? Have a coffee or take a nap. Moody? Play games or music or whatever you like. Overwhelmed? Go to a safe place with sensory friendly space.

Nope, that just doesn't work with me. How I wish all those things are enough, but it's not.

It's highly possible that I have an underlying undiagnosed condition, a bigger problem than autism -- and mine is more to do with an accessibility issue; in which I cannot rely on doctors and I do not have the eloquence to tell.
Quote:
• Do you also have something similar to this discrepancy between emotional-mechanical part and rational part? I know that the idea of “emotions vs. rationality” conflict is as old as the world, but I guess most people don’t feel it that way. Rather, emotions are used to guide reasoning and the following actions are seen as consistent with the unified self. Or something like that :D

Oh yes...

Very much so dictated a lot of my life is this unwanted emotionality that just clings into my being, and with no space between the real me, my will from 'it'.
To a point that I wish I was like many autistics thta developed alexithymia.

Thankfully, I found a solution, by luck, on how to make a distance between the crap that refuses to let go off my driver seat and me as in my will, that led me to these series of self improvement, which is a major sign that I did something right.

At the moment... All I concluded is that I did not recovered puberty itself. And whatever it is, it is, still, affecting me, majorly.
Still trying to find a more permanent solution though.
Quote:
• For those diagnosed in adulthood or later teenage years, did you have this “wow, that’s me” effect at some point, or rather, did you slowly accept it as “the least improbable explanation, given current knowledge”?

I don't know if I count.

Most of the things I'm newly aware of are actually outside of autism, matters not really to do with autism and more to do with being a damn human and a damn biological female, and at best autism is indirectly involved -- yet it's always been my biggest of problems, it's just that too many people misattributed it to autism. :roll:

Difference is that I was right -- it's not autism.
Only a few can see it's not the diagnosis that's the problem, though the diagnosis itself complicates things.

Complications that I have to figure it all out myself.



But yes, I understand what you meant.
Sometimes, an autistic can be accused of self loathing or hating autism for needing to change.

I don't believe in becoming more NT like meant being or becoming better, nor being an NT means being healthy to start with.
I strive to be a healthier and more functioning ND than everything else.

Another matter is that prescribing stuff is not something encouraged.
Because, well, mileage may vary. Because geographical and accessibility differences.
And then there's the matter distinguishing between 'needing an ear, a validation, an assurance' from 'needing a solution, what to explore, etc.'


Lastly...
A lot of social related issues are to do with belongings and relatedness.
Thus more contents and posts and narratives about how people saying these people are like them.

I outgrown the need to relate.
I outgrown the need to be understood.
I'm already past the development stage where I have to wonder where I supposed to belong.

While people are seeking to find and know their place, I do not want one.
I want to be beyond that.


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P. Zombie
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10 Oct 2024, 2:53 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I call it interpreting myself because when I found out who I really am, that's what I was doing. I was looking for past clues as to what shaped me into the person that I am today. All that started in the early January of 2016.

Hope it worked out in these nearly nine years :)

Edna3362 wrote:
Thus I have to create systems for my own, on my own. I'm still exploring what just works, and what doesn't because everything within me is complicated -- I really wish mine is so simple that I never have to spend years of trial and error.

Well, that sounds awfully exhausting... All is just trial and error? You don't see any general schemas in the ways you react to different things?

Edna3362 wrote:
Only a few can see it's not the diagnosis that's the problem, though the diagnosis itself complicates things.

I don't quite get it. You mean that after getting a diagnosis, there is a tendency to attribute each problem to this diagnosis? To propose non-individualized solutions and not thinking outside the box?

Edna3362 wrote:
And then there's the matter distinguishing between 'needing an ear, a validation, an assurance' from 'needing a solution, what to explore, etc.'

I guess what I need is self-understanding - the ability to create a model of myself, which would be useful and not very complicated, which would allow to predict my reactions in the future, and to shape myself and my life in a meaningful way. Maybe like in a science-fiction scenario I made up, where you can scan your brain and decompose it, using some AI software, into elegantly designed computer program - with separate modules, good documentation and all that stuff :wink: And then you can say "this program is me" and see what outputs you get for various inputs and why it works in that or other way. And yes, it would be also nice to feel a part of some group of people with similar programs in their brains.

Edna3362 wrote:
A lot of social related issues are to do with belongings and relatedness.
Thus more contents and posts and narratives about how people saying these people are like them.

You mean, autistic people create their language and then use terms like 'finding yourself', meltdowns', 'shutdowns', 'masking' etc. even if they don't 100% feel they apply to them? The common language to feel they belong? Or maybe people who don't feel these terms apply, stay quiet, because they lack words for their experiences and maybe don't feel they belong?

Edna3362 wrote:
I outgrown the need to relate.
I outgrown the need to be understood.
I'm already past the development stage where I have to wonder where I supposed to belong.
While people are seeking to find and know their place, I do not want one.
I want to be beyond that.

Well, I'm not sure I want to be beyond that - sounds very lonely. I mean, it would be nice to have such a distance to my social desires, like Schopenhauer commends :wink: But as a social animal, I'd like to find a place, a group, a whatever, because without it what's better in this world than in video games? Ok, graphics are better. And books are better. And internal mechanics are more interesting. But is it enough to live for?


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11 Oct 2024, 2:37 am

P. Zombie wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
Thus I have to create systems for my own, on my own. I'm still exploring what just works, and what doesn't because everything within me is complicated -- I really wish mine is so simple that I never have to spend years of trial and error.

Well, that sounds awfully exhausting... All is just trial and error? You don't see any general schemas in the ways you react to different things?

Nope.

It's like everything is a gamble to me and my body/mind.
There's no pattern or any consistency.


Like, example -- I deal with chronic rhinitis.
Antihistamines are a recommend thing.
One day it can work, and another moment it didn't.

Why? Because it's not an allergy? An infection then? Something else?

Why not it's dehydrating effects?
Even that's inconsistent. Even checking what I ate, how much I slept, what cycle I'm at, how much I drank, the fricking weather ...

Sometimes I get brainfog, sometimes I get nothing, sometimes it made things worse.

But I did it all right, damnit! Same sleep times, same eating times, same food, same 'weather' same 'activities'...

... Found no pattern.

Maybe this is why I don't and couldn't ever have a routine?
Because subconscious tells me it's outright pointless? :?
Quote:
Edna3362 wrote:
Only a few can see it's not the diagnosis that's the problem, though the diagnosis itself complicates things.

I don't quite get it. You mean that after getting a diagnosis, there is a tendency to attribute each problem to this diagnosis? To propose non-individualized solutions and not thinking outside the box?

Yep.
That's how it is to people around me, unfortunately.

It means 'too complicated, don't wanna deal with it -- it's my problem'. :roll:

People just... Assumes things.
So instead of helping me in ways that I may need or have a say to get an informed decision, I'd get a damn box of something I already explored and do not work.

Quote:
Edna3362 wrote:
And then there's the matter distinguishing between 'needing an ear, a validation, an assurance' from 'needing a solution, what to explore, etc.'

I guess what I need is self-understanding - the ability to create a model of myself, which would be useful and not very complicated, which would allow to predict my reactions in the future, and to shape myself and my life in a meaningful way. Maybe like in a science-fiction scenario I made up, where you can scan your brain and decompose it, using some AI software, into elegantly designed computer program - with separate modules, good documentation and all that stuff :wink: And then you can say "this program is me" and see what outputs you get for various inputs and why it works in that or other way. And yes, it would be also nice to feel a part of some group of people with similar programs in their brains.

Ahh I wish I have that.

At the moment, I only kepy finding out that I don't. :lol: At least never to something like up to 25% or parts that do matter and past the fundamentals.

Quote:
Edna3362 wrote:
A lot of social related issues are to do with belongings and relatedness.
Thus more contents and posts and narratives about how people saying these people are like them.

You mean, autistic people create their language and then use terms like 'finding yourself', meltdowns', 'shutdowns', 'masking' etc. even if they don't 100% feel they apply to them? The common language to feel they belong? Or maybe people who don't feel these terms apply, stay quiet, because they lack words for their experiences and maybe don't feel they belong?

More or less?

I don't study these things.
But it's a common and natural human phenomenon.

It's not an exclusively autistic thing, but it a human thing reacting to the collectively autistic itself.

Human thing reacting to certain ways of living.
Human thing reacting to a certain sexuality related to the majority of their current acquired cultures.
Human thing reacting to a particular condition or disease that's outside the usual norm.

Human thing reacting to a completely different concept; be it being a fan of a media, new or rediscovered tech, certain works, etc..

Quote:
Edna3362 wrote:
I outgrown the need to relate.
I outgrown the need to be understood.
I'm already past the development stage where I have to wonder where I supposed to belong.
While people are seeking to find and know their place, I do not want one.
I want to be beyond that.

Well, I'm not sure I want to be beyond that - sounds very lonely. I mean, it would be nice to have such a distance to my social desires, like Schopenhauer commends :wink: But as a social animal, I'd like to find a place, a group, a whatever, because without it what's better in this world than in video games? Ok, graphics are better. And books are better. And internal mechanics are more interesting. But is it enough to live for?

I don't experience loneliness the same way. :lol: Mine is like a cognitive need to understanding my reactions easier and more predictable than an emotional one.

By seeking some sort of reference, no different than looking at a medical textbooks trying to understand what my condition is so I can deal with it.

I can imagine that it is isolating and lonely.
But I also found out that not all humans are social creatures because are really few exceptions...

... And I slowly found that one of these exceptions.
I never experienced the longing or fantasy to be included, or have fun and vibe. Nor was I convinced to the idea of having relationships as the key to be happy or even be healthy.

It's not a cope either because I can very much be in and out of any group whenever I want, play along with any of them. I already knew how to synch and match in a inexplicit matter. Half of which is more like my choice.

But it's really, really one sided. Because I don't have real desire nor drive. I can get attached or care at certain matters but...

Like, people tend to need me more than I ever need anyone. They need me to be there and play with them, while, at most, I only need them to exist.
And I'm not even masking anything, let alone try to please anyone. :lol:

For me to be driven to become sociable is to be very, very bored, not, well, "lonely" or feeling alone or isolated or helpless.
To me the emotional aspects are very much optional and a pleasant bonus than an outright need, or god forbid, an addiction.


Else I'd be expressing the same things like 'I am on outcast, I feel like a freak, I wanna find my tribe, I want friends, I'm lonely, I want a side, I question my ability to be someone's friend and as a human being, etc...' and with age, and even with more social fulfillments, finding out that I just don't have the same emotional needs. :o

I'm fine with that.
Just frustrated that there's no damn guide on what to do with it. All the same -- I have to make things up on my own.
Frustrated because it's more work, because of being myself, as usual. :lol:


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