Do you think counselling works for aspies?

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Cardamine
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28 Dec 2014, 1:58 pm

I'm an aspie with long term depression and anxiety, and i'm wondering whether it is worth the time, effort, money etc to see if counselling could help. I've had some counselling in the past, but i found that rather than helping me address my issues, the counsellor wanted me to pretend to myself that i am a better person than i actually am. They were, of course, trying to help me increase my self esteem. However, my rationality is very important to me, and i want to retain proper knowledge of a situation, rather than just make myself feel better about it.

I'm wondering if self esteem building by the usual means is more difficult for aspies because of our love of rationality. I've heard it said that most non-depressed people have a 'self serving bias' ie they think well of themselves. For example in polls most people will rate themselves above average at skills, personality or whatever eg if asked 'are you a better than average driver' more than 50% of peope will answer yes. So - 'normal', healthy people tend to have a view of themselves which is perhaps better than the reality.

Perhaps aspies don't have a self serving bias because of our rationality? I'd be grateful for any insights into this, and any advice on whether councilling can work for rational people.



olympiadis
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28 Dec 2014, 2:18 pm

Cardamine wrote:
I'm an aspie with long term depression and anxiety, and i'm wondering whether it is worth the time, effort, money etc to see if counselling could help. I've had some counselling in the past, but i found that rather than helping me address my issues, the counsellor wanted me to pretend to myself that i am a better person than i actually am. They were, of course, trying to help me increase my self esteem. However, my rationality is very important to me, and i want to retain proper knowledge of a situation, rather than just make myself feel better about it.

I'm wondering if self esteem building by the usual means is more difficult for aspies because of our love of rationality. I've heard it said that most non-depressed people have a 'self serving bias' ie they think well of themselves. For example in polls most people will rate themselves above average at skills, personality or whatever eg if asked 'are you a better than average driver' more than 50% of peope will answer yes. So - 'normal', healthy people tend to have a view of themselves which is perhaps better than the reality.

Perhaps aspies don't have a self serving bias because of our rationality? I'd be grateful for any insights into this, and any advice on whether councilling can work for rational people.




I believe you are very correct in what you are saying.
Counselors don't really "fix" things as in making you not autistic, but they can help you work on things like addressing certain symptoms that you would like to modify.


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Oren
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28 Dec 2014, 2:26 pm

I think cognitive behavioral therapy is actually very effective.


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olympiadis
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28 Dec 2014, 2:36 pm

Cardamine wrote:
I'm an aspie with long term depression and anxiety, and i'm wondering whether it is worth the time, effort, money etc to see if counselling could help.



You could maybe save money by trying some of the most effective techniques that a counselor is likely to suggest to you, like:

PMR
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/pmr.htm

Belly breathing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaphragmatic_breathing

and regular exercise in general.


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elkclan
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28 Dec 2014, 3:05 pm

since you're in the UK, why don't you present to your GP and ask for a CBT referral. You'll have to wait, but that will be free for a window of time and help you decide if you wish to pay.

I think some of this 'love of rationality' wanting to see yourself 'realistically' may actually be the depression talking. It's not about not understanding your deficits but appreciating your good points.



Alyosha
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28 Dec 2014, 3:25 pm

i dont know about aspies. but i am diagnsoed with classic autism and i have found counselling to be very helpful or very annoying. because different counsellors have trated me differently and some have not felt they know enough to deal with me at all . but my current counsellors works with lots of autistic people and knows that im not there for help with autism or tourettes (which i also have) at all but knows enough about it and my autism in parituclar to know when something wont work or will have to be adapted for me.

so i think it can be helpful if you find someone who knows autism but knwos that not every problem is autism. but also i have found you have to be willing to acknowledge that you need to make soeme changes, which can be hard for autistic people. if your going there for help then you have to actually make some effort to accept the help.



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28 Dec 2014, 3:29 pm

Cardamine wrote:
I'm an aspie with long term depression and anxiety, and i'm wondering whether it is worth the time, effort, money etc to see if counselling could help. I've had some counselling in the past, but i found that rather than helping me address my issues, the counsellor wanted me to pretend to myself that i am a better person than i actually am. They were, of course, trying to help me increase my self esteem. However, my rationality is very important to me, and i want to retain proper knowledge of a situation, rather than just make myself feel better about it.

I'm wondering if self esteem building by the usual means is more difficult for aspies because of our love of rationality. I've heard it said that most non-depressed people have a 'self serving bias' ie they think well of themselves. For example in polls most people will rate themselves above average at skills, personality or whatever eg if asked 'are you a better than average driver' more than 50% of peope will answer yes. So - 'normal', healthy people tend to have a view of themselves which is perhaps better than the reality.

Perhaps aspies don't have a self serving bias because of our rationality? I'd be grateful for any insights into this, and any advice on whether councilling can work for rational people.


I believe anything is possible.


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Cardamine
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28 Dec 2014, 3:33 pm

Thanks for replies. I think i do all the usual stuff to increase mental health eg good diet, excersice, meditation, social contact and support etc. Also, i've done a fair few self help programs. CBT did appeal to me very much because of its rational approach and i did an on-line course a while back (MoodGym). Though i enjoyed it, i still found that it did not 'allow' any negative conclusions to situations. For example, if you feel that people are ignoring you, it will tell you to look at all the possible reasons, eg they could be tired or distracted, ie it isn't necessarily to do with you. At the time i was feeling like colleagues at work were ignoring me. I'm quite slow to pick up on this kind of stuff, and the CBT made me tell myself that it probably wasn't to do with me. Months later, when it had got much worse, i found out that my colleagues were indeed very unhappy with me, and had put in a complaint to the boss (though at the time they had denied that anything was wrong when i asked).

The above is an example of something which i needed to address - my social skills and teamworking at work. Other, larger issues come up in counselling, and in the past i've found that the counsellor tries to encourage me not to admit that i have faults which could be addressed. I wonder if other people on the spectrum have had similar experiences? Also, has anyone had counselling from someone who specialises in working with aspergers? Do they have a different approach?



Cardamine
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28 Dec 2014, 3:38 pm

Alyosha wrote:
i dont know about aspies. but i am diagnsoed with classic autism and i have found counselling to be very helpful or very annoying. because different counsellors have trated me differently and some have not felt they know enough to deal with me at all . but my current counsellors works with lots of autistic people and knows that im not there for help with autism or tourettes (which i also have) at all but knows enough about it and my autism in parituclar to know when something wont work or will have to be adapted for me.

so i think it can be helpful if you find someone who knows autism but knwos that not every problem is autism. but also i have found you have to be willing to acknowledge that you need to make soeme changes, which can be hard for autistic people. if your going there for help then you have to actually make some effort to accept the help.


Thanks Alyosha. That's interesting. What county do you live in? How did you find a counsellor who works with autistic people?



Alyosha
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28 Dec 2014, 4:10 pm

Cardamine wrote:
Alyosha wrote:
i dont know about aspies. but i am diagnsoed with classic autism and i have found counselling to be very helpful or very annoying. because different counsellors have trated me differently and some have not felt they know enough to deal with me at all . but my current counsellors works with lots of autistic people and knows that im not there for help with autism or tourettes (which i also have) at all but knows enough about it and my autism in parituclar to know when something wont work or will have to be adapted for me.

so i think it can be helpful if you find someone who knows autism but knwos that not every problem is autism. but also i have found you have to be willing to acknowledge that you need to make soeme changes, which can be hard for autistic people. if your going there for help then you have to actually make some effort to accept the help.


Thanks Alyosha. That's interesting. What county do you live in? How did you find a counsellor who works with autistic people?


hi. i live in london and i found her through my local adult autism charity. also if you are willing to pay for some therapy yourself you can go on this website http://www.itsgoodtotalk.org.uk/therapists website you can search for therapists by problem and you can find ones who have experiences in specific areas.



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28 Dec 2014, 4:16 pm

Your self-description of lacking a self-serving bias reminded me of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

I think I've got that. I can see how it might derail CBT, though I don't know much about exactly what goes on in CBT sessions.

There's also something called defensive pessimism, said to be a strategy some individuals use for coping with anxiety. If you have that, any therapy that tries to change it could make life worse, because it's a strategy not a disorder.

I'm not sure counselling works all that well for people in general, and autistic people are likely to find it even less useful, unless the counsellor really understands autism. But anxiety and depression are nasty things to be stuck with, so I still think it can be worth having a go. I've found counselling helpful occasionally. It got me thinking that I had to find out what emotions were all about, for one thing.

I'd look for somebody who was reasonably nondirective and open-minded. It's unlikely to be very harmful as long as you don't see them as an authority. If the advice you get doesn't make sense or doesn't work, I think the best thing is to tell them that, and if they can't offer anything better, shop elsewhere.

In spite of my lack of enthusiasm for therapists, I think it's a much better approach than taking sedatives and stimulants, which seems to be the usual first resort from the experts these days.



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28 Dec 2014, 4:19 pm

You don't have to buy into the positivity fully, you can still conclude negative things about yourself if they are true.
For eggsample, I can conclude that I suck at teamwork, which is true.
But I still have to do some teamwork, which sucks, but that is just what has to be done as part of pursuit of what I like to do.


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28 Dec 2014, 4:29 pm

It worked for me. I first saw one in 5th grade and loved it. I saw another one in high school and I didn't really like it and wanted to quit seeing him. But I found out years later his intention was to make me mad so I could get out all the anger and hurt feelings. Some therapists believe if they make their patients release all their anger, it will help get rid of them so they practice it in their session. But it apparently worked.


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Cardamine
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28 Dec 2014, 5:05 pm

Alyosha wrote:
hi. i live in london and i found her through my local adult autism charity. also if you are willing to pay for some therapy yourself you can go on this website http://www.itsgoodtotalk.org.uk/therapists website you can search for therapists by problem and you can find ones who have experiences in specific areas.


Thanks. That's really useful.



Cardamine
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28 Dec 2014, 5:17 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Your self-description of lacking a self-serving bias reminded me of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism



Yes, thank you. This is the kind of thing i'm thinking of. I remember a tv documentary years ago which showed an experiment where two groups of people - one group with depression, one group without depression, played a comuter game. It was engineered so that they would all score well on the game - the way they played made no difference. The goup of non-depressed people were all pleased and thought they had played well. However, the group of depressed people sussed that they would have scored well however they played. So, the depressed people had a much more realistic outlook.

I have thought of this a lot since, and notice similar situations arising in life. Of course it is healthy for us to feel that we have good qualities. However, this kind of positive thinking can also make us ignore bad situations because we put a positive spin on things to help ourselves feel better.

I haven't heard of defensive pessimism though. I'll have to look into that one.



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28 Dec 2014, 5:44 pm

Cardamine wrote:
the way they played made no difference. The group of non-depressed people were all pleased and thought they had played well. However, the group of depressed people sussed that they would have scored well however they played. So, the depressed people had a much more realistic outlook.

I have thought of this a lot since, and notice similar situations arising in life. Of course it is healthy for us to feel that we have good qualities. However, this kind of positive thinking can also make us ignore bad situations because we put a positive spin on things to help ourselves feel better.


It's always seemed dangerous to me, for anybody to assume strengths they don't have. I'd think that positive thinking could only work when starting with a client who had a negative bias in their opinion of their own abilities, but I've heard that hypnosis can get people doing all kinds of surprising things that conventional objective thinking would have deemed impossible, so perhaps people can be fooled into using their hidden resources, and perhaps if a person can't be fooled, they lose out on that.

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I haven't heard of defensive pessimism though. I'll have to look into that one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_pessimism