Were we the Artisans of Old?

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Talking about handwriting and technology... I'm just back from an interview. They want to hire me. The job is to physically sit on a chair in Israel, importing products from companies in several countries in the world (mostly the USA and Asia) into Western Europe. I passed all the interviews with flying colors, but the last test was a graphology test. As I was just reading ManErg's post now, they called me to inform me that they can't perform the graphology test on me because it must be conducted in the person's mother tongue and I don't have one. My languages are Spanish, English, Hebrew (the 3 at the same level) and Dutch, French, Italian and Portuguese (partial mastery). With 7 languages and extensive international hitech telecom experience, I'll be on disability because I don't have a mother tongue to take a handwriting test in. I think this belongs in this thread...

Because they're unusually interested in my application, they've called me again now and said that they're sending a messenger to my home in an hour - I must have ready 3 graphology tests: one in Hebrew, one in English and one in Spanish. Then they'll decide what to do about me.

Explain why? At our previous point of evolution - we were not human beings, we were another species, surely? We can have no real knowledge of human beings at past or future points of evolution. We are all conditioned from the day of our birth into the current mindset.


Strange 'improvements' that make most of us less happy than medieval peasants..... In it's natural state NO animals suffer depression. Depression is cause by *unnatural* stress that an animal cannot escape from. Stress that is different to that which that species has evolved to adapt to. Animals in zoos *do* get depressed. Suggesting that increadsing numbers of us are living in a zoo from which we cannot escape. Project that forward and the future does not look nice. Increasing depression amongst human (as well as increasing sociopathy, wars etc) is a sign that we are changing the world much faster than we can adapt to. Whether that's a good to bad thing..who knows? Mass extinction of humans would be good for the planet and every other species on it, overall.


...while the **** idiots get richer every year - and the rich are depressed, too!

Are they the idiots, though, or is it us??? We're the ones who lead lives made minimally tolerable by drugs, meds and the hypmosis of mass entertainment. They profit from it. Here's my ideas for real improvement: instead of destroying the planet developing technology for rapid travel across the planet, and for communicating with people on other continents, how about just having what we need close by, including friends. Wow, radical idea that one! Industrialisation has smashed communities and has made us mentally unbalanced.

Either way, it can't last. And the 'savages' will have the last laugh, when they inheriit the earth, those that haven't forgotten how to live *with* the planet rather than *against* it. (and those that haven't been subject to genocide by our culture)

Last edited by ManErg on 24 Nov 2009, 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'd consider it more a sign of confusing reality with fantasy.



The problem with this is the reality that depression is endemic amongst *us*, much more so than NT's. And the gist of this thread is that the world is changing against us. With less pressure to conform to what is now global stereotyping, there wasn't even a need to identify *us* as any different to *them*.



And they are also confusing reality with fantasy! Since when was graphology anything other than a cheap chat up line at parties? http://www.clivebeale.com/hs/graphol.html

I wish you luck with the job interview, and if you don't get it, I hope the employer get's their reward when the persom with the neat handwriting turns out to be an incompetent fool who steals from them! Any company that trusts graphology would raise a red flag with me. What else does their management style involve? A Project Witch-Doctor who increases sales by sacrificing goats? Company Psychics who assess legal contracts by contacting the spirit world???


The naughty naughties? The braindead zeroes?

At 13 he wouldn't be allowed to work these days as that is clearly 'child exploitation' No, he'd have to stay in school where he'd be violently bullied for showing an ability other than for sports or socialising. He would be hounded by the teachers insisting he got a more 'rounded' education instead of fuelling his deluded idea that he could be an artist...

I don't think Aspies were so much the "artisans of old" more that the presence of autistic traits seem to enable some people to think outside of the box and make the connections that the 'crowd followers' miss. NT's can have autistic traits to a degree, too. What is happening now could be a shift in power between autistic traits and soiopathic traits. There are several psychologists whose research suggests that the current western culture is ideal for those with sociopathic traits to thrive in. Various world leaders have been shown to have sociopathic traits - in the same way that Bill Gates has aspie traits. So rather than being ruled by 'idiots' perhaps we are being ruled by sociopaths.

Very true.

We're going from nations to global control. A global herd needs to be raised. Anyone whose primary interest and best skill is anything other than networking (or in other words, being a good sheep of the global herd) is given enough money a month to go home, stay quiet, do nothing and not disturb the formation of this new global society. We're witnessing the preparation of a new world order where individuality (in the sense of unique personal traits) has no place.

Don't be offended, I was speaking about your generation as a whole, not individuals in it.

You are right in that reductionism in the strict technical sense is not always best, but I was more referring to the way that the anti-science types wrongly attack an incorrect conception of "reductionism" as a way to dismiss the defense of the scientific method and falsifiability. Systemic/Emergentist thinking is not the same as the BS nonsensical "Holistic" woo of the New Agers, and it could not exist without a solid reductionist foundation to build on.

OK, that’s just bonkers and makes as much sense as a legal system that decides guilt or innocence on the basis of whether one floats when dunked or whether one’s tongue blisters post application of a red hot poker.

On the plus side, I suppose a handwriting test is less burdensome than a red hot poker to the tongue.

the biggest gripe I seem to pick up on in this thread is that everyone sounds like they're trying to come off as "victims"...and that someone else is choosing their paths in life for them.

As long as you insist on pointing fingers, and insisting "the normal world is treating us bad, keeping us down", you're gonna be utterly miserable because you choose to be.

The world isn't keeping me down cause I know what to do to succeed in it, and I'm not gonna blame others when I screw up and have setbacks.

If throwing the Rocky quote back in my face taught me anything, it's that many of you here seem to just want to feel sorry for yourselves, and blame everyone else for your problems.

Hey, that's your choice...but don't expect anyone else to accommodate your desires, cause they won't.

As for the article I mentioned, here it is:

http://www.cracked.com/article_15231_7-reasons-21st-century-making-you-miserable.html

Some truth in that! It's not that we are either in *total* control of our destinies, or we have *no* control over our destinies. It's not that black and white, the reality is in the middle. We can affect some things, but not everything. Luck plays a part. Every year, people start businesses full of hope and with ideas that the founder tthinks is great. And 2 years laters 60% of them have failed.

Also, nobody starts out as a 'victim'. Everybody starts with hopes and dreams and the sure-fire knowledge of how wonderful life will be when they're an adult - and in control at last. Dreams can go a long way, but there are forces outside of our control - nothing mysterious - just other organisms hopes, dreams and paths that cut directly across ours (sometimes those organisms are microscopic, but they can dash your hopes just the same).

I wonder if the current generation of under 20's aren't going to be even more bitter than us when they hit their 40's and 50'. They've been promised so much more, have had much more given to them without any effort on their part, yet it is highly likely there will be a lot *less* to go around in 20 or 30 years. Wait for biggest wave of bitterness, regret and complaining you've ever heard.. Nobody dreams of working in a call centre, but for many, they'll be lucky to get that. That's the way the global economy is going. And as for blame, I'll bet they absolutely blame their parents generation, not themselves for not being positive enough.

Entitlement topic

Talking about the Me Generation! This cohort spans many years, from the teens to the retirees, all cultures, religions, NTs, AS. People want what is theirs, or what they assume is theirs. I see it on this site, I see it in society, on TV, Facebook and the like.

The sense of entitlement. And this is difficult to address, because for every argument against, you have the flip side. Needs and wants and difficult to tease out. Self preservation is paramount. Of course. In many ways you have to think of self first. The problem comes when you are competing for scarce resources. It is hard to carve out a niche for yourself when niches collide, people panic, and then entitlement rage comes to the front.

I have warned my children that they must train for at least three careers, in case the first two go "belly up". This is the reality in the world now. And it is even more difficult for those of us who have neurological and other differences. We are not victims, per se, but it makes it more challenging.

But entitlement is not a safety net for humanity, no matter what their lot in life.

ManErg's post was quoted for truth.

Most excellent advice indeed, Sue!!

That is excellent advise and something I am being forced to do right now. Engineering is a dead profession and I am now in school to enter the medical profession because there is absolutely nothing else around here except minimum wage at Walmart.

7 languages! Wow, you would be VERY employable in the United States. Many jobs here make Spanish and English a mandatory requirement now. Bilingual applicants are always the first in line regardless of any other qualifications.

I think languages are a very good thing to have in order to get a job in most countries. This is why God gave us NLDers the languages, because he'd taken from us everything else.

Starting a new career after Engineering is a very big goal, congrats to you!

There has never been enough to go around. This vision of everyone having everything is impossible to deliver.

In London, 1800, the most advance city of the day. The consumption of gin was a quart a day per man, woman, and child. 90% lived in poverty, had no education, and died of old age at 32, if they were not hung at a younger age.

Most cities were paved in manure and garbage, the contents of chamber pots were thrown in the streets, and farther north where it froze, the spring thaw would leave a soup several foot deep, with wagons churning it.

The idea of garbage collection started with picking up the dead, which were left on the street, and using them for land fill. An open trench, and tossed in by the cart load.

While most were hung, a workable system, some were proven to be innocent, bummer! They were given the ultimate punishment, deported to America and Australia, to places without cess pool streets, or dark brown water, with trees. They had to start from nothing, to fill the air with smoke, and the streets with manure, and make water the proper brown color.

It still took a potato famine to reduce the Irish, but several girls survived, and replaced the population in a generation.

After 1850, serf breeding fell out of favor, they were turned out, and went to the cities, which could be seen and smelled for a long distance, that cloud of coal smoke, where the drunks ran wild. The main entertainments were the hangings, all day every day, and the economy was based on prostitution to buy gin.

Gin was a better higher profit use of grain than bread, less transport, and it reduced the need for food and heating. There was a constant supply of people who would hang others for food, and the more able bodied were pressed into military service, and exported to die somewhere else.

During a slack period when they failed to start a war, the British Navy declared there was a mutinty, which no one else noticed, and hung 13,000 seamen. It was just they were over budget, and that brought the books in order again. It does seem everyone who was about to retire with a pension was hung instead.

Half of all children died before thirteen, and the rest went on to lives of theft and prostitution. Seeing that it was a waste of human potential, factories were started where children of six were worked six days a week, for twelve hours a day, making a profit from their eventual death. It helped their parents to buy gin, and the economy as a whole increased.

Keeping the children off the streets increased the income of prostitutes, no more under twelve competition, and reduced the problems of hangmen, for forty pound children do not hang well, sand bags were tied to their feet. It often not only broke the neck, but pulled the head off. Theft of food was a hanging offense, and children have to be taught to obey.

This brings us up to a hundred years ago, more were put in factories, someone should profit from their lives, and when over production became a problem, Merchantile Wars, taking markets, India, China, as colonial markets owned by corporations.

When growing the market ran into other producers, World War I, and the sequal, almost killed as many as the 1918 flu. 100,000,000 was a drop in the bucket, and the population increased during all of these times, even with enlightened government and private policies.

This leads to the 50s, black and white TV, Leave it to Beaver, and pretending that history happened a long time ago. There were new and real problems, godless communists wanted to share their resources! This lead to discoveries such as The Mayans had been communists for 8,000 years, so in non public wars, where there might be oil, whole cultures were extirminated.

Millions died in Viet Nam, for thinking they did not need the French to rule them, the Americans stepped in to put a stop to the "Share the Rice" program. That rice was to be sent to France, where a profit could be made. The French wanted the rice, then the Japanese, but the Americans used Agent Orange, and solved the rice problem.

In 1964 the legal restrictions on Black Slaves were lifted, making them Americans, and a decade later, Native Americans were declared to be humans after all. This was a means of controlling Unions who had becoming annoying, which was followed by the discovery that women would rather be abused on the job, than in the home, and would work for half of what men wanted.

When those ungratful skanks wanted a raise, up to the reduced wages of men, the jobs were sent to the ChiCom, the center of evil, of a decade before.

Because some Saudis learned to fly planes, badly, weak countries with oil and proposed pipeline routes were invaded, to create jobs, and to teach, Freedom Through Occupation.

The entire economy is based on going into debt for more than lifetime earnings, after paying for an education ranked 18th in the world, between Bulgaria, and Albania.

The latest is those without medical insurance will be forced to buy it, at $8,000 per year out of your McDonalds paycheck. Those who dont pay will be fined $750 a year by the IRS. No going bankrupt on them. This will allow those on welfare that weigh 400 pounds to get all of the heart, lung, liver, kidney, transplants they need to continue a life of Doritos and booze, which directly supports the economy of some other people.

Meanwhile the media goes on and on about the exploitation of children, which since child labor laws, leaves only sex, how big the market is, how high the prices paid, and shows examples of how only dumb people get caught. If she sees the results in new dolls, clothes, video games, she will wait in her room and never mention it. A little package of white powder for a job well done, and she will will be living the American Dream, just like Barbie.

The importation of drugs is condemed, free lancers cutting into established markets, and the total cost is several hundred 40 foot containers packed with hundred dollar bills, every year, and none have ever been found.

Hang a man, you make money for today, put him in prison, you get a lifetime income and retirement.

Law and Order employs twice the people that education does, and our prisons are first in the world!

Exploitation has always been the only economy. Somehow you have to profit from what people will spend on. It does not matter if you are for or against, as long as the money is right.

Sure, there are problems running a debt Ponzi. But just as taking all of the money on deposit at the Federal Reserve, and loaning it at no interest to your friends to buy all of the stock market and commodies shows, there are work arounds for most situations.

When tax income does not match expenses, put the unborn in debt, at the best they will not be able to vote for eighteen years. When real estate craters, borrow money till the dollar is worth a third, then the bank numbers work. Within ten years the interest on debt will equal gross national product. That problem is for the future to solve, our job is just to create it.

Local services are overrated. People can buy bottled water, burn their own garbage, and fire departments will fill out the forms for the insurance, just as the police do with crime. There are some needed changes, such as food stamps not being sold at a discount for cash on the street, but taken directly at the liquor store. These stamp discounters are stealing from established companies who urge people to drink....responsably.

Only those who have made billions through political connections are fit to rule America. Only they have the vision to create an economy based on short and wasted lives of the masses.

Look around, how many have made something of themselves? The working only delayed thier funeral, which lead to costs that could be avoided. Now they are avoiding going into debt to keep other people rich. Most people only produce an obstruction, they take up space and resources, they produce nothing, now they consume nothing.

Their dead weight has caused Air America to stall, Scotty says, "I'm giving her all I got Captian." We have to lighten the load, having spent the Social Security funds, cleaned out the Federal Reserve, Maxed the National Debt, sacrifices have to be made for Freedom! The entire Government Medical and Retirement System is in danger of failing!

Numbers don't lie, only by taxing everyone at 150% of income can America remain Free!

We must solve the unemployment problem. FEMA has camps set up where the unemployed will be transported to Counter Earth, on the other side of the Sun. There they will build America II, without all of those peskey forginers. All of the prison populaltions will also be sent to Counter Earth, and then we can return to prosperity, full employment, just like Great Britian did after it got rid of undiserable elements. This gives these people a new life, due to the Sun they will be out of contact, but rest assured, they will be going to a much better place.

With full employment we will not need dollars, all of the waste of paper, each employee will be assigned a job, living quarters, and given food, and health care at the FEMA camps. Everyone will have the equal oppertunity to work to make America great.

To keep worker productivity up, all children will be raised by the State, and teams of professionals will figure out where they can best serve. Many will reach a better life through service in the homes of the economic and government elite, a life their parents could never give them. Having been freed of archaic views and values, they will be able to commit to a devoted life of service, doing all they can to make the lives of the best people better. Intense Psychological conditioning will assure that they are totally willing to meet any demand.

Others will become the future workers, soldiers, that meet the needs of the State. Each will be perfectly adjusted to the life chosen for them.

We have come a long way in 200 years, but some things don't change. Only an Orderly, Productive, and Profitable Society, has been the goal all along.

We must Stay the Course till our Mission is Accomplished!

Isn't there two ends to that stick? There's 'what we want' and 'what is available'. We want too much. I don't know if it's really true, but I've read that even now, with 6 billion people, there *is* enough food to go round. However....it's the distribution mechanism that spoils it (literally as so much food is wasted while many others are starving). That's just the basics, though. It get's really crazy when we start demanding non-essentials at the cost of essentials eg polluting our food, air and water to make novelty items. "but I couldn't live without the internet"


Yet there was fabulous wealth in London at that time, too. A minority of course, same as now. Hey, and if anyone spoke up and criticised the status quo, I wonder what the response was? Probably same as now: "but I couldn't live without my gin" or "your responsible for your own happiness...glug...".


Yes improvements in hygiene have been immense. Sometimes I wonder if that alone isn't the main improvement of the past 200 years, rather than any chemical concoction that came out of a lab. Look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis, one of the true greats who saw what was going on, not what he was told to see. A fascinating but poignant story, inventor of 'washing hands'! Yet was derided by the other smug doctors,died in an asylum and was only proved correct after his death. No profit to be made in basic hygiene....


Many found much better lives than they had back home, ironically! I regret there seems to be no modern day equivalent to be sent to, to get away from the chronic insanity of consumer culture.

PS America I was built by "pesky foreigners". I think America 0, the original release, was still the best. Low on graphics and glitz, but high on functionality and low on resource use. And there's still over a million editions in use, apparently, waiting for when the current version collapses in a virus-ridden heap.