Being beautiful and a scholar: double curse?

Post Reply New Topic

I don't think the OP wants preferential treatment either.

To the OP, I think it may be more your demeanor rather than your looks that are attracting this behaviour; you said yourself, people were competitive with you when you were confident, but now that you are 'calmer', they are more protective. I think they might react the same way no matter what you looked like.

The 60 year old's comments were well out of line, but not unheard of; I used to know a surgeon in Ireland who would be constantly heckled by the other more senior surgeons about when she would get married and settle down etc... I've lived in ireland myself for quite a while and I found it can be quite a chauvenistic culture, especially in more rural areas. If you move to the UK after your degree, you probably won't experience such blatent sexism.

Have you ever been a FEMALE doctoral student? Perhaps the ones you've known, but me being in academia for several years now, I have not seen this as much. I do agree though that women, in general, are treated better than men in academia. The females I know who are given preferential treatement are the one's who may be labeled "teacher's pet". If you have ideas of your own and are somewhat rebelious as well as good looking, you are a big threat!



Here's is how you described yourself on a different thread



Yes, but since the end of this year I have dyed my hair black. Plus, I don't think it would be wise to quote me on this as I have already mentioned that I am not going to say too much about myself for privacy reasons. Do I have to post a picture of myself for people to believe that I am attractive?



I have long black hair at this point.

No, just be yourself.

Just chase what you like.

There's no social pressure, as long as you live to your true self, it doesn't matter what you are, as long as you keep working on the things that matter --- the PhD!

Remember, true beauty is not just skin deep, as my friends would always say --- it radiates from the heart within.

If you are serious about these complaints... Then you would make serious complaints against the professors. Be warned though, it can make the rest of your stay about as uncomfortable as it is now. I think our situations may be a bit different... But it's still being taken advantage of for one reason or other. I do molecular research and so I'll be chained to the bench for GOD knows how long... But I'd still rather deal with my situation how it is now--with officials being brought into it--rather than have to submit to manipulation and utter s**t from a**holes.

Ehh... being pretty doesn't matter that much. I mean, you may get people to admire you or think you're a threat, but anyone who does those things just because you're pretty isn't someone whose opinion you want to care about anyway.

What is beautiful?

In essence people told me its in the eye of the beholder but all the while I played DnD I've never found some after I killed one lol.

In honesty there are many different forms and cultural depictions of what is beautiful.

Facial symmetry generally plays a role; also, you've got to follow the gender stereotypes for your gender. Good health is a large part of beauty. You can't trigger any bad stereotypes, so that if you're black, you can't be classically African black, you have to be brown-skinned with mostly European features to be considered beautiful. You also can't be fat, because "fat" is stereotyped as ugly. Your body language and posture have to be relatively NT, and you can't have any disability that causes visible awkwardness or asymmetry--wheelchairs are OK, but it's not OK to have atrophy, contractures, etc. Mixed-race people tend to be more "beautiful" to most people because they tend to express mostly dominant genes, which means they tend to be slightly more resistant to disease, and people subconsciously recognize that; plus they're drawn to the unusual features, which force them to look at mixed-race folk longer than at most. Finally, you've got to be young, or else get surgery to fit the stereotypical "young" face; old is considered ugly. The one thing that you can actually change, barring surgery, is being neat, clean, and having whatever style of make-up and hair are popular in your society; these are prerequisites for beauty but cannot create it.

Bottom line: Beauty is arbitrary, occurs mostly by chance, and is a really, really stupid reason to admire someone.

I do not wish to belabour my point, but now that I have engaged in the discussion I suppose I must follow up. In the interest of clarity I would point out that you repeatedly refer to yourself, a PhD candidate, as being "in academia", and seem to confound having a career in academia with being a student. I am not sure that I can recall another graduate student referring to him/herself as being "in academia" although I accept the concept. In any event, it needs to be clearly recognized that students are in a vastly different position than those employed in academia, particularly tenured professors.

In this regard and for the record, my position is that female graduate students at times appear to receive preferential treatment. I have not contended that females employed in academia receive preferential treatment and, in fact, do not believe that this is the case - surely the opposite at times. Again, one should not confuse the situations of professors and students.

Another aspect of your argument which I question is that professors see you as a threat. You do not seem to appreciate the power imbalance that exists between professors and their graduate students. Because of this power imbalance, doctoral candidates are frequently ill-used. However, the notion that tenured professors, particularly at prestigious institutions, see themselves in competition with their graduate students, doesn't fly.

Without doubt, a few boorish lechers still exist in academia, but their reputations spread like wildfire and female students who want to are generally able to avoid them. Conversely, of course, some unscrupulous female graduate students attempt to use their sexuality to their academic benefit.

I readily accept that you are an attractive PhD candidate facing difficulties, and regret pointing out discrepancies in your posts. Nonetheless, I doubt that your problems stem from your being a threat to professors because of your attractiveness and independent thought.

My sincere good wishes for resolving your issues.

[quote="wildgrape]
I do not wish to belabour my point, but now that I have engaged in the discussion I suppose I must follow up. In the interest of clarity I would point out that you repeatedly refer to yourself, a PhD candidate, as being "in academia", and seem to confound having a career in academia with being a student. I am not sure that I can recall another graduate student referring to him/herself as being "in academia" although I accept the concept. In any event, it needs to be clearly recognized that students are in a vastly different position than those employed in academia, particularly tenured professors.


I beg to differ on this point. PhD candidates ARE in academia.....most of us teach and publish papers as well as edit scholarly books, sometimes with professors/sometimes with fellow PhD candidates. Just because someone is a tenure track professor does not mean that they are in academia and a TA or a research fellow is not. Academia is all encompassing. To me anyone who is a PhD candidate in a university and publishes scholarly work is in academia and the exact position does not make much of a difference.

I agree with you regarding this point. I think male PhD candidates and young professors are often treated unfairly. I have male friends who have just received their PhDs and they can attest to this fact.



Sure professors see some students, male or female, as threats. Those who write their PhDs usually know much more about their specific subject than their supervisors. Bigshots in the departments don't want to appear inadequate so they will try to subtly manipulate and put down original thinkers. I am not talking about myself here as I do not consider myself to be a brilliant thinker. However, I have seen it time and time again in some of the world's greatest institutions (I attended two Ivy Leagues so I should know).



It's not about their reputation as lechers though......it's really about power, both sexual and intellectual.

I like to think that I am catlike, as cats are beautiful morons, yet amazingly adept at specific tasks.

I'm a beautiful moron physicist, and I think it's awesome being pretty and smart!

Heck with societal expectations, as I often say to my girlfriend when she mentions something about doing anything she might think is even slightly embarrassing in public, "these people don't count" *motions vaguely at the people around us* "so don't worry about it."

Of curse topic

I find it unusual, but not unheard of, that a person aspiring to an advanced degree would be concerned with appearance. Perhaps norms have changed. When I was younger I noticed that women in academic settings would play down their looks and be proud that they could be viewed for their academic accomplishments instead of appearance.

No one should be judged solely for any attribute, including intellect, though many would prefer brains rather than looks. And it is easier to measure the intellect (in terms of education) rather than physical attributes. I know of a woman, now a lawyer, who worked as an upscale "companion" to male executives and financed all her education this way. I would not do this, and many women I know, attractive or not, would not either. And I am not implying that this is what you have done. I do not judge, for I have never been a companion, a woman scholar, or beautiful, for that matter.

If you are being harassed sexually or are experiencing discrimination, you could file a report with your academic adviser or head of the college/university you attend. No one should feel self-conscious about a physical attribute or impairment.

The only part of your post that puzzles me is why you write that you are "double cursed" in your thread topic.

Wow. TWO Ivies before obtaining your PhD!! ! Extremely rare, indeed. You have the world by the tail.

I have never noticed any trend for women who succeed in academia to be any less attractive than other groups selected by competence.


You have a point there, but I don't think academia is special in that regard. It is just no exception to a general trend. I once remarked to my (female) boss that an attractive female PhD student I knew had much better success than I at getting famous researchers to talk to her at conferences. My boss replied that they talk to an attractive woman, but they don't listen. She published her papers only under her initials instead of full first name until she had a reputation she was happy with.

Tepper's novel Gibbon's Decline and Fall has a character with the problem you describe, and a solution: a few tricks to hide what makes her attractive. You mentioned when you take some herbal stuff and your behaviour changes, you get a different reaction. If you want a good experiment, try same behaviour as normal, but different looks, and finally change both. Then you'll know whether the combination is the problem or whether you just clash with some personality types independent of how you look. And you can decide what change gives you the best cost/benefit ratio if you need to change something to get to where you want to be.


That looks like sarcasm. Is it? Some students spend a year or two abroad, and usually benefit from that. A PhD may involve an exchange with another research group. It's not that unusual. And if you manage once to get into a prestigious institution, you have a better chance at success a second time.

i can see how you might view these as a double curse...t Darn that intelligence and darn that beauty!

So may I suggest you adopt a new self-defining paradigm to operate from?

Perhaps try to adhere to one that sees these issues as "high-quality problems" and also disregards the opinions of those who prejudice against beauty and brains.
Consider yourself a lucky litte tigger. Because in many ways, that is what you are, if you embody both these attributes.
That may serve you in better stead.
And get you into less fights.

Many young ladies Ive met find Margaret Mead inspiring because she showed "that a woman doesnt have to be attractive to be successful."

So its hard to know how to react to this.

Once you get your degree you ought to consider going on TV with a reality show.
You could be the female Dr Drew Pinksy and run a "Celebrity Rehab" type show as a sex symbol four-eyes!

You could start a support group for the terminally brainy and beautiful!
Lol!

I find that because I fit the standard of Western American beauty, people tend to assume I'm dumb. I imagine some of the negativity you feel is due to the "beauty or brains, but not both" stereotype. You're appearance is attractive, but since you are working on you PhD and have attended prestigious schools, people know you are not dumb. When the stereotype that someone who is smart must be ugly and someone who is pretty must be dumb is proven wrong in such an obvious way, people often don't know how to act or how to relate. I've faced the same problem myself ; like you I am attractive by the standards of my society, and I attended an Ivy. People who react first to my appearance are sometimes uncomfortable with my level of knowledge or eloquence of speech. There are plenty of beautiful people who are also gifted with intelligence; unfortunately that doesn't seem to have done anything to abolish the stereotype!