I fear I might become racist against NT's...

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It might be a terrible thing to say, but it rings true, nonetheless. People will go along and do some wicked things just to fit in. Social neediness is a strong driving force. We could all use a little less neediness. It's better to be friendless and aloof than to be cruel just for the sake of going with the flow, being one of the crowd and being accepted in the social stratosphere. What sounds harsh and unforgiving is really just a sad commentary on our society.

Interesting you said "non-autistic people".

Nothing I've said is blatantly incorrect - certainly arguable maybe.

I think it's fair to say that on average, apsies have higher cognitive abilities, especially when compared to the average NT. I don't know of any studies in this area to provide hard evidence but it has certainly been noted anecdotally several places, and it certainly is my experience.

Bullies bully for emotional reasons, to appear superior in groups of their peers, to help them fit in, in their view, and to have power over others. I can think of lots of acts of cruelty from not helping a homeless person to the most heinous crimes that can be attributed to acting to preserve your social appearance and standing, and drive for power over others or just responses to extreme emotional states. Aspies may have strong emotions, desire for power and to fit in but they don't act on them as a NT would, resulting in aspies perpetrating proportionally less cruelty than a NT.

It's also fair since they are out there saying the same sort of sh*t about us. We cannot thrive on nitpicking each others words trying to stomp out opinions we don't share.

Back to the topic though all things considered why worry about it? You have logical basis for your disgust. I gave in to "the dark side" a long time ago. My anger can consume me for all I care, as long as it gives me the strength I need to overcome the troubles associated with my life. I don't care if anyone thinks of me as a monster, I'll laugh if they call me one or something similar. I don't see myself as "demented" I see myself as having clear perception and reason for almost everything I do.

The thing is, both NTs and Aspies are capable of this sort of thing, not just NTs. You need self awareness not to be, even though, sometimes, even the self aware succomb. It's not just about being NT or AS, more about being an unaware human.
Some people will go along with anything just to have friends. It's part of the human condition. Some Aspies long to be accepted, just cannot figure out the right way to go about it.

Beware of being hostile to the people that feed, house and clothe you.

ruveyn

You know, the biggest thing I've learned in my first few weeks on this forum, is that people with AS are just as prone to prejudice and being judgemental as are people without AS. I'm seriously unimpressed with this aspect of this forum. It's wrong for people to be unkind, whatever differences there are between them.

The reason it is unkind is that an attitude of superiority doesn't give other people respect for who they are. People without ASDs should not assume they are 'better' than those with ASDs. They shouldn't patronise, judge, exclude etc. And, people with ASDs should not assume they are 'better' than those without ASD's. They shouldn't patronise, judge, exclude etc. I would be really sad if I worked with or knew someone with AS and they didn't think I was worthy of their time and friendship because I don't have AS.

The attitude that those with AS are superior, just sounds arrogent. There is no superiority or inferiority, either way. We are all people. C'mon, this is very basic stuff! You know that with AS you will be better at some things and not-so-good at other things, compared to those without AS. I hate it when not-autistic people judge and exclude those with ASDs, but I hate it just as much if someone with an ASD judges and excludes someone who is not on the autistic spectrum. The reason is...I hate prejudice. Nothing to do with ASD's and 'NTs'.

It's important to consider each other's needs, even if they aren't needs we have ourselves. We can't be arrogent and say we don't need others. We all have received care from others who attended to our needs, even though they got nothing in return and didn't have those needs themselves. We would be kind to try to show care and respect for other people's needs even if we don't understand what it's like to have that need.

I dislike anyone who puts complicated and arbitrary social codes before people's happiness and peace of mind.

Those types are usually NTs, but not always. There are Asperger people who are as every bit as bigoted, every bit as insistent that fitting in and being normal are the most important thing, and every bit as ready to pick on someone less normal again than themselves.

I might say that I'm angry about the way that I've been treated by a handful of NTs, but I wouldn't say that I'm racist, against them, because they come from all races.

A fair observation. However note you just made a sweeping generalization about a lot of people based on the behavior of a few, and as this is something you have "learned" you will assume it to be true of people you with AS you will meet in the future. This is an opinion formed of people before you have sufficient knowledge and is the very definition of prejudice.

My point is it's very idealistic to say we should be completely without prejudice when we encounter a new person, but in reality we have already picked up on lots of visual queues and situational queues and have an expectation of the characters of that person. When I meet someone wearing a tweed coat on a university campus or when I meet someone carrying a beer bottle in an alley, I have formed opinions about this person already. The danger of prejudice comes when it prevents us from revising our opinion once we have further information, but it is naive to think we should be without prejudice and we are all judgmental to some extent.



Why not assume that? Respect should be earned. I'll admit, I'm very arrogant and feel superior to just about everyone. This does not preclude me from being friends with anyone or treating them fairly, or revising my opinion of them. I once mistook a Romanian mathematician for a homeless person on a city bus. I was able to revise my opinion rather quickly and had a nice conversation.



When you work with someone or know someone you get to know them and your opinion of them changes. If after finding you are a wonderful person they still didn't befriend you just because you didn't have AS that would seem very wrong to me, but that's kind of an unlikely scenario. After all, Spock had great friendships with humans.



Agreed, and I advocate it, with the caveat that you keep an open mind as the interaction progresses.



Don't confuse superiority and inferiority in various areas with some sort of absolute measure of superiority. I agree, there is no absolute measure, but but people can suck or rock at making friends, making small talk, explaining their ideas, solving problems, as you've noted. But there's nothing wrong with feeling absolutely superior inside.

I am talking about a general approach on how to deal with people you meet in the wide world. Arrogance works great for me. But I never mentioned excluding anyone or being mean to anyone. Don't assume because you come into a new interaction with certain prejudices you are going to treat people badly, exclude them, or not assimilate new information and see how they really are. We assume things and pre-judge people, perhaps disappointingly, we are only human.

Yet, you and I are not too far apart on how people should be treated. If we met I would make some sorry attempt eye contact and parrot some polite meaningless greeting and see if you had anything interesting to say, as I do with lots of people who do not have beer bottles in alleys. You would not know that I immediately assume you are yet another moronic human I can't wait to get away from, and if our interaction presented otherwise I would certainly revise my opinion of you.

I am arrogant and I suggest that to other AS people as it's a great way to make sense of the world.

i know for a fact i'm racist against NT's they are the worst creature ever made.

FTW. So many good points, I just have to highlight the whole thing.

People gotta understand that with the intelligence to admit superiority comes the intelligence to cope with variations. Personally, I have been miserable trying to pretend I was even remotely near to the greater population in terms of cognitive ability, but the moment I accepted that I was different in this way, I was able to put the world in very useful perspective. It's sort of like admitting that you are black and that you need to stop walking in on KKK meetings; or admitting that you are female, and when you speak to men about topics that excite you they may think you are hitting on them. It's all about context and reality. Put yourself in context and it sure makes the world less confusing.

I think it's really lame how people hate on us people trying to be realistic. That's exactly what has caused my disdain for "NTs" in the first place. To be blatantly blankety here: they hate logic, they hate reality, and they hate the truth. In turn... they hate me.

And btw, attacking OP for his choice of words or honesty is really lame also.



Exactly. Do you know what my mother said when I tried telling her I had AS? Something to the effect of "Noooo, you can't have that, those people are really sick." You hear that? You people are all so sick her little girl can't possibly be at all like you. She then went on to insist that I must have a variety of OTHER disorders which operate on the assumption that I am otherwise normal.

And she HATED my AS boyfriend. HATED him. The man was a goddamn genius and she was upset that he had unconventional ideas about raising children, and looked 'strange'. I admit his ideas regarding kids were stupid, but he didn't have children, so w/e. I have the intelligence to know what it's like to try form new ideas about the world, even when you don't have experience in the areas required. Thinking is not a crime to me.

There are people out there that are behaving far more offensively than Manifoldrob (or myself). There are people who truly operate on prejudice, ignorance, and fear, and just don't have the mental facilities to do much better than that. And that is sad. There ain't nothing cruel about pitying people for what they clearly don't have. Hell, I'm grateful when people pity me for my obvious problems, and help me out. It doesn't happen very often, though. Can you imagine why?

They just don't think about it. They should thank us Aspies who do think about their shortcomings and adjust ourselves accordingly, but they don't.

So, yeah. Sorry if this was a bit of a derailment, OP. Good luck not turning into Darth Vader.

I don't blame you one bit, and I would probably feel almost exactly the same way if that's how I was treated. Your feelings are completely justified, and I would think you might be crazy if you did not feel this way. There are just some real a**holes in this world and I'm sorry you've run into more than your fair share. Perhaps you could find a healthy, creative outlet for these feelings, such as drawing, writing poetry, making music, or taking up a sport? Strong feelings like this are pure energy, and in time you could learn to channel that energy and make it work for you. Hang in there!

im curious to know, did you try to converse with the person when you thought they were homeless, and if not, couldnt you have had a nice conversation with them even if you still thought they were homeless?

we are each the sum of our experiences, we are not just a snapshot of who you see at one moment in time. people can be fascinating creatures with interesting stories, regardless of whether they are homeless or a mathematician. thats one of the problems with generalizations and prejudices, you dont get past that snapshot.

but then i come from a completely different place than you do. i believe respect is deserved. i believe people deserve to be respected as human beings, as fellow sentient creatures on this planet we all share. until they do something to retract that respect, i give it freely. but i guess thats just my inferior nt-ness showing, shame on me for being so accepting of people


this brought to mind a song, Moments by Emerson Drive. ill post some of the chorus here:
I've had my moments, days in the sun
Moments I was second to none
Moments when I knew I did what I thought I couldn't do
Lookin' at me now you might not know it
But I've had my moments

this is what I keep trying to tell people!

I'm not sure it's emotion so much as lack of control and ability to truly self-analyze, and that is true of many individuals I have known. It's also a lack of submission and humility--of not being able to lay aside your pride and pour out those things that are holding one back from a purer and gentler spirit, and to my belief, a relationship with God that opens your heart to care for those around you and to serve them instead of one's own self-interest.

But it is not true of all.

For me...I believe that God made me the way I am for a reason. And if that is the case, it also means that God made those around me, to include the fully NT and those more fully on the spectrum, the way they are for a reason. We are each given our natures and it is ours to use what we are given to His greatest glory, which means to serve Him and those in His creation. The nature of our service differs and is commensurate with what we are given...the one thing that is given to all of us, though, is not to freeze our hearts out but to love one another. We may not all show this the same way. For some of us it may be very subtle and very small, but it's meaningful in the eyes of God.

This is how I look at it. The tragedy is not that someone is wired a certain way, that they are NT, that they are more on the spectrum than I am, or that they have ADHD. The tragedy is if someone is not using what they have in the way that they were meant to. And when I see the two groups looking down upon each other, that is a case where on both sides, talents and hearts are not being used to their fullest.

And as one of my favorite commentators likes to say, "That's my view...I welcome yours."

(I paraphrase slightly.)

Anybody remember "I'm Okay, You're Okay?"

There's another AWESOME book out there that I'm pretty sure probably isn't in print anymore called, "I'm okay, You're not so Hot!"

The latter is a comedic take off of the first, but they both are pretty much about conversations just like this.

Worth a dig around the internet to find a copy. I bet it's cheap. It's also a very fast read, and right on about topics like this.