NTs here and in other forums...sigh...

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One time on Yahoo Answers, a mother asked about her five month old who always wriggled and squirmed in her arms when she holds him and she was saying maybe her kid doesn't know how to stay put and she asked if anyone else's baby is like this.

Right away sensory issues and autism came to mind because of how some infants don't like to be held due to sensory issues and it's on of the first signs of autism. I told the mother it was one of the first signs of autism and she better get it checked out but I would keep an eye on it. She got offended.

I think you all are absolutely fabulous and I have never been offended by anyone on here, nor have I really had an issue with posts that I have read. There was only one time that I was upset but that person made a judgement, she called me a moron for having a difference of opinion. IMO that had nothing to do with AS or NT, it was just the way this person was so I stopped posting on that post and moved on.

I like blunt and too the point. I soooo appreciate that in people because I don't have to worry about where they stand. I don't have to try to figure out what their intentions really are, and I know if they have an issue and what it is so if I need to fix something I know what the problem is or what I did. Even if it's something hard to swallow, I need to hear that. I would be doing my child and myself a huge disservice by not listening. If you're wrong, well...you're wrong. OK...off to the next question. In your directness I may hear something that will be exactly what I need to hear to understand whatever it is I am trying to wrap my head around.

Don't hold back. Others reactions are their problem and there is nothing you can do about that. I just LOVE you guys and I don't know what I would do without you. My son will live a better life because of your honesty, and I will be eternally grateful for the help that I have gotten on this website.

You guys ROCK!! !!

I want your honest, direct responses.

I don't want my questions or opinions to be ridiculed, like anyone else here I presume.

That has never happened, the closest thing was a rolling the eyes emoticon and I said, "Let's not go there".

I'm beginning to think that NT simply equates rude, stupid, reactionary, and self-centered person for a significant number of aspies.

Oh, well. I'm not interested in changing anyone's opinion about that, I can understand. It seems a natural reaction for an oppressed group to take on towards the dominant group.

I just hope that my participation warms up some of you to NT's.

I'm here to learn about autistic culture from the inside out. I don't mean this literally, but since my son has autism, I feel that I have autism, too.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate it when I get responses to my questions. I fret and worry almost everytime I hit the send button. I wonder, "Is this offensive? Is this stupid? Is this community sick to death of this question? Will this be misunderstood? Have I been clear enough?"

Hasn't happened to my knowledge so far. But, if I were to write something ridiculous, I would welcome your pointing it out.

I'm here to learn after all.

So true

If only every aspie had someone in our families who had your compassion, we'd have all lived charmed lives.

(And I think that the above is the last word on whether to allow NTs here.)

unfortunately, no, they cant =/ there arent a whole lot of forums out there for parents to talk about autistic children. there are a few others besides wp, but not many. the actual forum here says "This forum is for discussing the various issues related to parenting children with Asperger's Syndrome and Autism", doesnt say you have to BE autistic. i always just assumed that since i am parenting a child with autism, i would be welcome there.

one outstanding reason to come to wp instead of the others is because here there isnt a lot of quackery. i am not nauseated here with threads about recovering our children with chelation therapy or lists of DAN doctors. most of the parents in desperation mode trying all the snake oils dont post here. THIS forum is very much about acceptance of autism and learning to live with it, not about trying to cure it or get rid of it. i am so thankful that these forums exist, at least i dont have to wade through all that garbage here.

would you really rather us parents go to those other websites? i would hope not.

there is a significant difference in how autistics and non-autistics communicate. you all know that better than most. that doesnt mean one way is better than the other, its just a fundamental difference in how we work. for some of us, one reason we come here is to learn to speak our childs language, and you cant get that on an NT forum.

its good for both sides to remember this difference. just like with any speaking engagement, know your audience and talk to them in their language, we should all do this. i think in a way autistics have an advantage in that regard, you've had a lot more practice at speaking or hearing our language than weve had speaking yours. but for a lot of parents coming here for the first time, they DONT EVEN KNOW you have a separate language. keep that in mind when you read their posts and forgive them their ignorance.

I remember seeing this thread! It was bizarre....I read it but didn´t answer, as I was totally confused by it; and yet strangely fascinated. At first, I thought the AS people who answered seemed too offended, and were reading too much into her original post- ("reading between the lines" has never been my forte)- however, they turned out to be right! The OP´s next post was totally off the wall, and she made several misguided (as well as offensive) comments about AS. It was actually scary, and I fear for the AS child who has to be thrown into this kind of atmosphere: i.e. the misguided biological mother, as well as the foster parents who want to start medication. I wish I could have helped somehow, but I had no idea what to write. And where do you start, with someone who is so misguided?

Thanks for your input! This post has inspired me to look into the forum for NT parents with AS children. I never went there before, as I don´t have children myself. However, I WAS a child once, so I realize now that maybe I can actually help.

I think it´s great that NT´s who want to understand the autistic mindset are here. I appreciate that; we need more of it! Unfortunately, not all are like that, so I can totally understand what the OP is talking about. After all, we struggle enough with the outside world in our daily lives.

I do not find direct answers offensive at all, even if I don't agree. I find being judgemental about things that are not illegal or immoral offensive though. When I post a question, I expect to get a multitude of responses from people from various backgrounds. I very much appreciate when people who have ASD take the time to answer my questions as I find them most helpful.

There is a difference between being rude and tactless. I find many ASD people on here lack the social tact that NT people have. I think that is great, just fine with me - get straight to the point.

There are only a few things on these threads that bother me so far. One is that on some of the threads that I want to answer, I am just not sure if my answers are needed or wanted, being that I am NT and can only offer things from that perspective. Another is that there do seem to be some ASD vs. NT stuff going on, not too often, but just like other people, I don't like to be judged because of my status. Lastly, I feel there are a lot of people on the threads that claim to be ASD (undiagnosed) but are not ASD. Not to say there are not many people who are ASD yet undiagnosed, just to say that I think people are too quick to label themselves and self diagnose.

Undiagnosed AS? This is the kind of stuff that I feel has no place here. I'm sorry, but if you come to a board of "AS" people, unless you are a doctor and unless you have experience diagnosing AS, nobody should be telling anyone who thinks they are AS that they are not...I do not believe anyone uses the label AS for pure pleasure, especially seeing how many NTs have such a bad attitude towards people with AS...

I do not get angry either if I ask X and you tell me, you should do Y because of this...THAT is what usually the AS people do...however, some NTs just say "well, that's the way it is...or you are blaming the wrong person, etc..." and never truly offer suggestions on how to make things better or work through issues...and expect that your response will be the same "you are so wonderful, good for you, blah, blah" instead of "I don't think that is right and you should try this and that"...

And yes, guess maybe from now on I will refrain from replying or reading posts by such people that just want you to say "you are wonderful, blah, blah, blah" and listen to what the AS people actually have to say...at the end, my purpose of being here is that I have an AS kiddo and I want the AS perspective on how THEY felt growing up and what helped THEM...I truly care about my son being raised confident and happy, not my son being accepted by the NT community.

DW_a_mom, I thought your first post-comments were very realistic, but these words made me think:

How can the person giving the answer judge if it will be useful? They do not know the other person's mind. Surely the best we can do is provide information which we hope will be helpful. It is up to the recipient to determine its usefulness (or not) to their particular situation, and to question further if need be. The intention to help is honest, even if the recipient doesn't like what they read. If there is any apparent conflict of interest between parent & child (or spouses/partners) - it cannot be a surprise if we focus on an autie's needs, that's our area of expertise, we can relate to the situation better. Perhaps it is the lack of automatic adult-to-adult peer support which sometimes surprises.


Nothing positive to them. Not a criticism of you at all. Just the fact that this rule is one of the main reasons that auties never get the kind of useful feedback that would really allow them to understand what's going on around them.


The filtered version just doesn't tell us anything, and unfortunately the moody version usually appears to come out of the blue. It's the other side of the coin - we don't have filters, unless we carefully learn some; but we don't learn very well if all we get is filtered, yet almost everything is.

If a parent (or spouse) needs to lose their filters to be able to communicate with their aspies, then interacting on the forum without getting 'put out' is probably a good way to learn.

The reality is that many people who come here have had limited verbal interactions with other people, so of course we are blunt, and are every day learning to interact with each other - we do not have the communication latitude to be able to give anyone special treatment - managing to do ok most of the time is hard enough work in itself, even for mature aspies.

In a way, previously being made to feel that you are offensive by even existing is one of the contributory factors to poor communication - it is easier to give up, rather than cope with the unpleasant consequences of getting things wrong all the time, but never being given the help to get things right.


And a direct statement to an aspie does have a practical element, because it presents information which can be considered, and agreed with or refuted. And it also offers valuable insight into another person's thought processes. But surely a statement like that could only be considered verbal abuse if it is said in anger, or if the other person isn't allowed to consider and reply? An opinion can always be disagreed with, can't it?

Or are you saying that the rule is needed because a large number of people are so emotionally sensitive that they literally cannot tolerate anything being said to them which isn't positive, that negative opinion literally 'does not compute'?
Is that a real truth about the society we live in?

(These rules are difficult to fathom.)

It's interesting, I haven't yet, despite reading posts for over a year, ever thought "Oh that's blunt!" - but each person's opinion is very personal to them, and not targeted at winning an audience, so maybe that's what seems blunt to you, the lack of gift-wrapping.

It's not just for the kids, although it is really important for them. And yes, Morgana is right, all auties were kids once, so any of us could contribute our viewpoints at times, to hope that the younger ones get more understanding than many of us have had.

The fact is that non-auties who can stick it out here are probably the kind of people who could 'stick it out with us' in real life too. So it would be short-sighted of us to lose the kind of people who might be friends or partners to people on the spectrum. Just by being ourselves it seems that the too-easily offended leave fairly quickly anyway.

And the parents that are sticking up for their kids, fighting in their corner, are also our allies, because every time a parent and child understand each other, or every time a parent succeeds in obtaining what their child really needs, rather than what doesn't work - then that increases understanding of what autism really is.

Nice post MommyJones.

The bolded part may be the kind of thought that many auties have on a daily basis, the thing we wish other people realised.

And getting upset on occasion comes with the territory, it certainly doesn't just happen to non-auties. Judgements abound, but they are honest opinions, sometimes abrupt, but not intentional cruelty or malice.

That is a good point.


I don't think you are alone there - posting is nerve-wracking at times.


Worth repeating.

I'll just take what happened, as a learning experience.

I disagree. Although there are a reasonable number of people who are self-diagnosed, I have never had the feeling, since I´ve been on WP, that the people here are too quick to "label themselves". Based on the posts I´ve read, as well as my own personal experience, I think the people who have come to that conclusion have read a lot on the subject and have given it quite a bit of thought. In addition, based on what they write, it sounds like they all have valid reasons for believing they have an ASD. There are most often 3 reasons why a person is "undiagnosed": 1) They are middle-aged (remember, an AS diagnosis didn´t even exist until rather recently; also remember, an AS diagnosis in middle age does not change anything, it is really no more than a confirmation)- or 2) They recently suspect that they might have AS, so they come to WP to get information and answers (many of these people end up getting a diagnosis, or they move on)- and finally, 3) They are women ( many doctors even admit that in diagnosing women with AS, they are not really sure "what to look for").

People often seem to imply that there is a problem with "labeling oneself". Personally, I never really understood this. For me, it´s sort of like telling black people not to "label themselves" as black, but to think of themselves as "white people" instead. The fact is, many people *need* the label, as it is a form of identity. Maybe it would be different if our world were perfectly accepting and accommodating of all types, but unfortunately, it´s not. For those people in a minority, the "label" is often helpful, both in better understanding oneself, as well as in understanding the rest of the world, (and dealing with it). If you are an NT, it might be hard to understand this, but I think most AS people who have been undiagnosed all their lives have spent a lot of time looking for answers to explain why they are the way are. I think the "label" of AS is valid for anyone who feels liberated once they discover this life-changing information.