Autism, Empathy and Others... really... what"s the deal

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Don't be so hard on yourself... practice makes perfect. Well, maybe not perfect, but improvement is always possible. I make mistakes like that from time to time myself.

Which i never claimed. Future scollars in the field of "misunderstanding" will thank you for your post.



Reciprocity has nothing to do with empathy. Empathy is understanding other people or "being able to put yourself in someone elses shoes". Empathy is a trait psychopaths do not posess.

Compare that definition to your beloved Wikipedia (Look under "Social sciences and humanities")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocity

Reciprocity is more about social protocols.

Given your clarification here your previous post makes absolutely no sense. What was it you were really trying to claim if not what you actually wrote?

Also, I do not consider Wikipedia "beloved" but I do not automatically consider it to be "BS" because of poorly understood instructions to never use it as a primary source for research. Believe it or not, it is possible to find middle ground on this point.

Deficits in social or emotional reciprocity are currently optional requirements, and are associated with ASD's but not a mandatory requirement in every case. However deficits in social-emotional reciprocity become a mandatory requirement in the DSM5 final revision for ASD.

The definition you quoted for reciprocity from Wiki is specific to social philosophy and it is not the same as how the DSMIV-TR describes social or emotional reciprocity in the diagnostic features description in the expanded text of the DSMIV that is not generally available to the general public. I will link and quote that description below from a source that has access to the expanded text in the DSMIV-TR

Deficits in social reciprocity are identified more specific to Asperger's syndrome per how cognitive empathy is generally defined, and deficits in social and emotional reciprocity are identified specific to Autistic Disorder in the DSMIV-TR diagnostic features in the expanded text, in how cognitive and emotional empathy is generally defined..

The studies done on cognitive and affective empathy have been almost entirely limited to adult individuals diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, because non-verbal individuals with autistic disorder are often not able to complete the self reports required in these studies.

There is one peer reviewed study linked in the Wiki definition of Empathy, specific to Alexithymia, that identifies deficits of affective empathy in individuals with Alexithymia identified diagnosed with or without autism spectrum disorders, in brain scans done when other people are observed under stressful situations. This does not apply to all individuals with Alexithymia on or off the spectrum, but Alexithymia is present in up to 85% of ASD's, so there is definitely an association of difficulties in both cognitive and affective empathy in some individuals.

There is no clear indication that any disorder is defined with a complete lack of affective or cognitive empathy, so Wiki more accurately describes the difficulties as atypical empathy responses in all disorders associated with difficulties with empathy. And there still is no clear agreement if the emotional contagion of personal distress when someone else is observed under stress should actually even be defined as empathy, as identified and sourced in the Wiki article.

Lack of Social or Emotional reciprocity as defined in the DSMIV-TR diagnostic features expanded text for Aspergers syndrome:

https://sites.google.com/site/gavinboll ... -aspergers



Lack of Social or Emotional reciprocity as defined in the DSMIV-TR diagnostic features expanded text for Autistic Disorder:

https://sites.google.com/site/gavinboll ... for-autism



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy#Alexithymia

And finally, both Leo Kanner and Hans Asperger's in the 1940's, respectively identified the syndromes they described in case studies as "autistic disturbances of affective contact", and "autistic psychopathy". Substantial difficulties with empathy were identified as a core deficit in both descriptions of the syndromes in these papers that eventually led to what is now described as autistic disorder and asperger's syndrome in the DSMIV-TR and ICD10 diagnostic criteria.

The Chair of the DSM5 committee, Sue Swedo, describes Autistic Spectrum Disorder as a disorder of reciprocal social communication, where RRBI's may be met by history alone in a diagnosis, per the final revision of the DSM5 definition of ASD.

The ICD11beta revision currently renames Asperger's syndrome as Social Reciprocity Disorder removing the RRBI criterion, and the ICD11beta revision describes Autism as a disorder characterised by an "impaired capacity for reciprocal socio-communicative interaction, together with restricted interests and repetitive behaviours."

http://www.psychiatry.org/practice/dsm/ ... IWwWt.dpuf

http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd ... cd%23F84.0

The new disorder of Social Communication Disorder in the DSM5 is described as "an impairment of pragmatics and is diagnosed based on difficulty in the social uses of verbal and nonverbal communication in naturalistic contexts, which affects the development of social relationships and discourse comprehension and cannot be explained by low abilities in the domains of word structure and grammar or general cognitive ability"

It is similar to pragmatic language impairment, which is also currently an associated feature of Autistic Disorder in the DSMIV-TR linked above and recognized as a clinical feature of Asperger's syndrome in other sources including a criterion element of communication impairment in the Gillberg criteria for Asperger's syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatic_ ... impairment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_disorder

http://www.bbbautism.com/asp_gillberg.htm

Verdandi, I think that comes from the subgroup of children diagnosed with Autistic Disorder described as being "oblivious to children around them including siblings", per deficit in social and emotional reciprocity, which is determined by behavioral observation, but far from applicable to what is currently observed and described as diagnostic criterion among all diagnosed on the spectrum. "Involving others in activities only as tools or mechanical aids", also describes that in the more severe observed impairments in social and emotional reciprocity as described in the diagnostic features of the expanded DSMIV-TR text for Autistic Disorder as linked and quoted in my last post.

I agree that it is probably this, although I don't think that behavior necessarily implies the quoted bit. Plus, many of these autistic children grow up to varying levels of impairment. Some might end up indistinguishable from any other adult with HFA, or perhaps seem very nearly neurotypical, while others will continue to be disinterested in other people. It just seems there's too much diversity to say that only one thing defines autism, you know? Not that it isn't necessarily true for some, just not necessarily all.

Also, such characterizations tend to lead people to drawing other conclusions that are clearly wrong.

Yes I agree, too many generalizations about a spectrum that is both large and extremely diverse per observed behavioral impairments and potential underlying and contributing factors associated with those identified and observed behavioral impairments defined as the spectrum.

I try to provide objective details of that diversity whenever I get the chance, to dispel the myths that both disparage and sugarcoat the full spectrum as it currently exists and is likely to change in the coming decades with different diagnostic definitions for what it is described as such per specific behavioral impairments mandatory and optional, with RRBI's potentially met by history alone:).