Eyes

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I can't believe I'm going to admit this, but here goes.

Once long ago, a group of young men got into a debate at a notable public house. The debate was the psychology between men and women - the argument was, could a man really understand a woman? Could a man even pass for a woman, by learning the way a woman saw the world?

Debate was interesting, and progressively drunken. One of our number was a published writer. He said the acid test would be - to write a book for Mills and Boon, and make them think that the writer was a woman. Surely if such a thing was accepted and published, maybe the psychological difference between Joe and Jane bloggs was something that could be boiled down to something simple. It was like the Turin Test.

I was rather drunk, and naive, so I signed up. My job was research. I ended up reading over 40 M&B books. Now, the first one I read - I felt ill. I really felt bizarre. Luckily, it was one of the worst I have ever read, with pages and pages of annoying internal monologue. And oh my God - justifying the gold-digging approach of the heroine, was very clumsy to say the least. However, there were bright spots after that. Some of the writing was, actually, rather enjoyable. A lot was not. I began to appreciate the considerable skill required to bring the books to life. But most were filling a niche in the market. Given that these books actually are the best selling example of the best selling genre in the literary world, and one doesn't have to have an agent to get published, I think it's a great leg-up to those who want to write romance fiction. But don't write off the skill of the writers.

The book was submitted - and it failed. I've still got the rejection letter (I gratefully swapped it for the books). However, I think it failed because the writer didn't take any advice on board at all. He didn't listen to me or the others - probably because we were a little in awe of him. The obligatory sex scene was hilarious. Hilariously bad. I'm not going to dig it out - I think I would combust with laughter.

Molly, I assure you, it's a serious business, the publishers know what the market want and there is no little skill involved. The genre is also much wider than you assume. 50 Shades of Grey isn't a million miles away from it, too.

Wozeree - it's possible to write about a stronger female character. They made for the better books, in my opinion. Oh, and the notion that the woman is weak - it's ridiculous. It's actually (usually) the man who is shown to be strong in some ways, but weak in others, who is brought into the feminine world, where he is tamed - but never entirely. It's the feminine usually winning over the masculine.

Beauty and the Beast, and Cinderella. Same old stories, just repackaged.

Last edited by octobertiger on 10 Nov 2013, 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Don't worry, it's like women admitting they f**t, or vote Conservative. Noone says they do, yet some have to

Each to their own. I find soap operas annoying and repugnant - yet, many don't.

There was a great book that I had which unpicked the psychological and social aspects of the romance novel world, and the people who bought the books. It got into plots, feminism, the works. It would save you an awful lot of time. I can't remember it - if it comes back to me I'll put it up.

If you start writing, it'll be a lot of fun. However, don't expect quick results. If it was that easy...everyone would be doing it (apart from the LogicalMolly).

That was a good story!

I'm not sure what you meant by 50 Shades of Grey not being a million miles away from it. I couldn't even finish that book - I just thought the writing was boring.

The series I'm reading now is called The Arrangement, it's one my friend recommended. The woman is much less of a drip until the guy comes along and turns her to jelly as usual. I think some of the writing in this series is ok, not Donald Barthelme, but ok. I don't mind a book about prostitution, I'm nor morally outraged by it, but there are just so many of them, as if to say that's what a girl should aspire to. I know it's just fantasy, maybe I'm taking it too seriously. Like having a rape fantasy doesn't mean you want to be raped, it's just a sex drive thing. Still though, not going down that road.

Nothing like poorly written sex scenes!

Leafplant stomped around her kitchen in distress. She stopped at each wall, raised a tightly clenched, shaking fist at the flat, hard surface, where she imaged the face of her foe, and then, impatiently, she stomped off towards the next one. They don't understand!

It was all so simple. His eyes, so bright, so shiny, like two jewels that have never been discovered and now there were here, just for her, drilling into her very soul with invitation and a promise. To be together. Forever.

He was more than any man she has ever met. Yes, he was handsome, but it was more than that. Yes, he carried himself well and made good money, but those were just cherries...cherries on top of a cake. The cake was him. Moist and chocolately delicious.

She thought back to that summer, when she had first laid eyes on his majestic magnificence.

............ lol
sorry.. can't do anymore I'm about to shortcircuit my laptop with the laughter tears dripping freely from my face


ANYHOW. If OP wants to write romance novels, than why shouldn't she. Calling it trash and suggesting she is devaluing herself is not very nice. Molly, you are a very naughty lollipop.

This is a great parody



I can't wait to read LogicalMolly's parody. Actually, from what I've read of her writing lately, I'd definitely buy a copy.

I thought you were talking about cakes again! Why am I thinking about some women salivating over a gateau.

The best reason to write a romance novel - it's really good fun. Even if it's done horrendously badly.

Molly is a pretty cool person with a big heart from what I can tell, I'm sure her book would be very interesting! I just hope she doesn't review mine on Amazon (I think i might be overusing these emoticons!)

Oh no - it ticked the boxes of what the 'market' wanted - and of course the S&M bit gave the controversy. But, in essence, it was your typical modern love story.

ok, I get it wrong, socially wise again. how unusual.

I've not read many romance novels since my teenage years (do you count Twilight?) so don't have a clue really what would make it a good one.

However, to be topical, cougerville is big business now days. So I think the goal posts have shifted and instead of two women going for one good catch dude, it's the other way around. You'll have younger gold digger guys trying to get in with the cash cow, I mean a sophisticated lady of middle age. I think the audience hasn't changed that much but I could be wrong.

Oh yeah, that she did (tap the market) - some of my coworkers were having a very heartfelt discussion about who should play Christian in the move the other day. It was serious stuff for them.

I am very sorry if I sounded harsh. I just have strong opinions on this matter, I suppose. It's your decision what you decide to write, so I apologise for ranting my opinions at you. Back on topic: eyes.

Eyes are indeed said to sparkle, flash, burn, beg, beseech, and other such things. I think this is more wishful thinking on behalf of the author than it is a literary device. You are writing a fantasy, after all. Your readers want to believe that there is such a person as a man that would talk to them with his eyes. To a certain extent, though, it is a literary device as well, because I've observed it popping up in other genres.

Yes, eyes do all of these things & more during sex and at virtually all other times as well. There's a lot of subtle communication spoken through the eyes just as there is via body language. It may just be that you don't always pick up on it. I know that I will semi-consciously communicate many of these things through my eyes in various situations - ie I know what I'm thinking, and my gaze must communicate it because others' reactions to it indicate that they've picked up on what my eyes are putting out. Also, I've been able to receive similar communications from others' eyes whether lust or fear/anxiety or a warning or ?? there's a lot that can be interpreted from really seeing another's eyes. They do say that the eyes are the window to the soul, after all.. so it just makes sense that you can see "deeper," meaning in the eyes & that they can communicate quite a lot.

Back when my symptoms have been stronger I noticed that I was avoiding eye contact a LOT and I'm sure I'd miss damned near everything others either intentionally or subconsciously communicated via their eyes. Now? Not so much, but I still catch myself avoiding eye contact a little here and there and I wonder if it's AS symptoms or my habit of lip reading that I picked up from my deaf friends and working in loud environments. I also believe there may be a correlation between my eye contact avoidance and smoking marijuana/natural tobacco/cloves - I'm not sure if just smoking weed does it or if it's in combination with a little nicotine &/or the salicylate acids from cloves, but I have noticed that sometimes my eye contact avoidance is much more present after having a toke/smoke so there's go to be something to that.

I'm sure it is. What mainly drives it is money, though. That's what makes me so cynical about it. My opinions are indeed based largely on assumptions, because it's not the sort of genre I would take the time to read.

O, I HAVE to address this, Molly the eyes DO speak...and metaphorically do all those shine, sparkle, beseech things. What I don't understand is how you don't know this? I know ppl in the UK are very guarded generally speaking but even then you can tell an awful lot from people' eyes as to what is going on behind the scenes.

I always thought everyone could do this which is why all parents say things like "Look me in the eye when you are lying to me" and there is expression "Eyes are windows to the soul" etc. I'm super curious now about why you don't have this experience.

I can't do this either. I can read eyes in certain circumstances, such as if someone is looking away from me, or if they are showing the whites of their eyes. But if someone's eyes are just normal size and there are no obvious cues, to me, an eye is an eye. Can any of you describe what maybe we should be looking for?