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Does Autsim Challenge Accepted Culture?

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androbot01
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16 Dec 2014, 9:38 pm

B19 wrote:
In NT culture, telling the truth can be the most radical thing that anyone can do.

That's for sure. So much of the prevailing culture is illusion and blind faith.



kraftiekortie
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16 Dec 2014, 9:41 pm

I can never be a "soap dodger." I'd have sores all over my body, and I would itch severely, too.



xenocity
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16 Dec 2014, 9:54 pm

androbot01 wrote:
B19 wrote:
In NT culture, telling the truth can be the most radical thing that anyone can do.

That's for sure. So much of the prevailing culture is illusion and blind faith.

Actually it is more like speak up and out, you get the beat down.

In most jobs you will get demoted if you're lucky for telling the truth/being honest.
You normally get fired and final pay withheld, if not a bad reference to boot.

In the social aspect, you run the risk of being isolated and ostracized for speaking the truth and being honest.


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androbot01
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16 Dec 2014, 10:09 pm

xenocity wrote:
Actually it is more like speak up and out, you get the beat down.

You have to pick your moments and be diplomatic, that's for sure.

But in a more general sense too. Like that we will be taken care of when we are old. More likely to end up in an uncaring nursing home. Or that alcohol is fine if you "drink responsibly," but marijuana is the gate to hell. Or that a marriage will last a lifetime. It's like the Titanic is sinking, but we'll pretend it's an on-board water feature. And as long as there is consensus everything's cool. Like when they told the people in the towers to stay on their floors and some did when they could have escaped.



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16 Dec 2014, 10:25 pm

androbot01 wrote:
xenocity wrote:
Actually it is more like speak up and out, you get the beat down.

You have to pick your moments and be diplomatic, that's for sure.

Even so, you are likely to get knocked for it.
Being honest rarely gets you liked and rewarded.

Just like being a hard worker and/or smart is no way to make friends (or get promoted for that matter).


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kraftiekortie
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16 Dec 2014, 10:28 pm

I've done okay by working hard.

I've gotten friends because they think I'm smart.



androbot01
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16 Dec 2014, 10:28 pm

xenocity wrote:
Just like being a hard worker and/or smart is no way to make friends (or get promoted for that matter).

I learned that the hard way.



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16 Dec 2014, 10:30 pm

androbot01 wrote:
xenocity wrote:
Just like being a hard worker and/or smart is no way to make friends (or get promoted for that matter).

I learned that the hard way.

Same here, but that's who I am.
I don't want a big group of friends anyways...

Now only if that equated to getting hired.... it hasn't yet...


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16 Dec 2014, 10:35 pm

I work hard and I work well: that's why I work 3-11 with no supervision--and nobody calls me to see "where I am."

It's true, though...in some situations, it's "who you know," not "what you know."

But I wouldn't dismiss hard work and being smart outright. It has its basis.



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16 Dec 2014, 10:39 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I work hard and I work well: that's why I work 3-11 with no supervision--and nobody calls me to see "where I am."

It's true, though...in some situations, it's "who you know," not "what you know."

But I wouldn't dismiss hard work and being smart outright. It has its basis.

Good for you!

I'm not being dismissive, just all to aware of the importance of socialization over it.


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androbot01
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16 Dec 2014, 10:40 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I've done okay by working hard.

I've gotten friends because they think I'm smart.

I did for a good twenty years. I just broke down and struggling to pass for so long damaged me.



androbot01
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16 Dec 2014, 10:46 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
... I work 3-11 with no supervision--and nobody calls me to see "where I am."

Nice! Supervision kills me.

Quote:
But I wouldn't dismiss hard work and being smart outright. It has its basis.

I have nothing against hard work or intelligence, rather, I value them. But they will not bring you success if you lack the social component.



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16 Dec 2014, 11:04 pm

B19 wrote:
As a culture, gays progressed to the point where they "took ownership" of gayness, gay issues and gay politics. Then huge change occurred very quickly - civil unions, gay marriage rights, more sever punishments for gay bashers, etc.

As a culture, ASD has not progressed to the point of "taking ownership" and there is still a lot of back-stepping, the "shooting yourself in your own foot" phenomenon.

To achieve power as a subculture there has to be a major shift to act in the best interests of the culture according to common goals which reaches a critical mass point. That is what gays achieved, essentially. The goals of ASD culture have not been so carefully delineated and agreed upon as yet. There's a long way to go. There are a lot of obstacles and they need to be carefully delineated too, as a whole, not one by one, from my perspective.


I'm not sure if what happened with gays is even possible with autism, simply because gays are able to function/work their way up in society just as easily as straight people due to having the same skill set. People with autism however, have a different mentality and skill set altogether, one that is not 'liked' by the NT community. Gays are now seen as 'equal' because anything that's different about them takes place behind closed doors, while with autism its 'in your face'



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16 Dec 2014, 11:51 pm

I can see what you are saying, though to me it's much bigger than that. I'm so old these days that I have watched the struggle toward gay liberation from its inception. (I am straight).

Gays faced far more hatred, prejudice, punishment, imprisonment, "treatment", exclusion, violence and stigma in years past than ASD populations do now or have ever faced. They had to overcome a kind of hatred that was so poisonous it was frightening just to see it. It took enormous courage to confront that, and I think there are distinct gay differences from the normocentric straight world, it's not just about the choice of sexual behaviours.



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17 Dec 2014, 1:40 am

B19 wrote:
I can see what you are saying, though to me it's much bigger than that. I'm so old these days that I have watched the struggle toward gay liberation from its inception. (I am straight).

Gays faced far more hatred, prejudice, punishment, imprisonment, "treatment", exclusion, violence and stigma in years past than ASD populations do now or have ever faced. They had to overcome a kind of hatred that was so poisonous it was frightening just to see it. It took enormous courage to confront that, and I think there are distinct gay differences from the normocentric straight world, it's not just about the choice of sexual behaviours.


Most people I have known from your generation (roughly) are strongly homophobic, so people like you really brighten my day. I just hope that one day, autism will be equally as accepted. Hatred isn't there as strongly as with homosexuality but it's saddening how many autistic individuals are left in the cold. It's more of an 'invisible' issue, as the disorder too is often 'invisible'.


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17 Dec 2014, 5:42 am

Very many autistic folk's personalities defy the laws of gender roles and stereotypes. It isn't just the socially unacceptable things like not making eye contact, many autistic women aren't very feminine as autistic males aren't very masculine. We often get labeled with social stereotypes that don't fit our personalities.

There's a lot of truth in saying we can be more self-aware and get educated about better social behavior and learn to practice said behavior, but I found shaming us (myself as well) for not fitting in is a waste of time. I try to adhere to the serious social rule issues, such as hygiene, but many things like eye contact or stimming in public, or fashion, I just don't care about.


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