ASD is a Brain-Body condition, not just neurological

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Please let's not get sidetracked in literalism, Sweetleaf - I know what neurology means, the body of knowledge that refers to neurons and their function (basically).

One issue (and only one of many) in fresh thinking about autism may be the need for less factionalism and separation between these fields of inquiry, a more collegial approach. Usefully Sweetleaf brought up the issue of definition in regard to what does neurology mean. All of these disciplines - and others - relate to the brain/body concept of ASD:


Neurology -- a branch of medicine focused on the clinical aspects of the brain and nervous system. The central question is figuring out what is going wrong and what to do about it.

Neurobiology -- a branch of biology focused on the anatomy and physiology of the brain and nervous system, often across animal species. The central question is what is there and what are its properties. This might include classifying cell types, tracing pathways, understanding structural differences, brain development patterns, and the mechanisms of neurotransmitters. To a neurobiologist, the brain is first and formost an anatomical organ composed of living cells.

Neuroscience -- also a branch of biology, but the focus is much more on mechanism and understanding how the human brain works. The central question is how does the brain produce observed behavior. Neuroscience includes neurobiology and extends it to theoretical models, neural coding, mapping of cognitive science and psychology onto brain activity (fMRI), neural dynamics (e.g. oscillations), and models of learning, perception, and behavior. When animals are studied in neuroscience, it is as a proxy for understanding humans.

Another disorder causing autism like symptoms is not the same thing as those other disorders being 'autism'...I imagine there are other conditions that can mimik autism that aren't...same with some physical illnesses that cause depression like symtoms but aren't actually depression...

But I have autism and take things litterally

But no seriously neurology refers to the brain and nervous system and how it interacts....so it does imply it would be more than just a brain and/or psychological condition.

I doubt it's in anyway brain-body, the fact is the neurological system just has a direct impact on the immune system. Some conditions that cause autism may effect the body as well, like various genes, or physical conditions might worsen autism, but autism is not directly bound to any body thing.

The body and mind are not separate entities. What affects one usually affects the other, both ways. You have a nightmare, you wake up covered with sweat, rapid heartbeat.. the old Cartesian idea of body mind separation has been thoroughly dismantled during the last 50 years of the 20th century and since... say you get phyically bullied, but the event leaves psychological and emotional scars. The brain is part of the body - there is no artificial separation.

what effects do you get?

I agree with B19 that the brain/body is a complex system with multi-levels of feedback paths going in both directions.
This can make it difficult to determine where a cause stops and where an effect begins.

To me that seems so easy to conceptualise that I can't understand why some people have so much resistance to and difficulty with it, dismissing it in an unexamined, dismissive, reactive way. I really don't get that kind of thinking and it saddens me.

By default it certainly is...the nervous system exists throughout the body, neurological refers to brain neurons as well as the nervous system and how the brain signals and what not effect that, thus making it a brain and body condition rather than one or the other. I think things like digestive sensativities can make one grumpy which can contribute to some autism symtoms, for instance I know if I haven't eaten enough or at least not nutritious or not my sensory issues for instance are much more intolerable....but of course I doubt if I found a way to rid myself of digestive ailments the autism would disappear, perhaps the autism makes me more prone to that issue perhaps not. Or I have gentics that made me more likely to have both autism and digestive sensitivity who knows.

I have never noticed any differences in my brain function or internal feelings that I could trace back with high confidence to food. My brain functions are quite stable, they don't vary a lot from day to day.

Food is an issue for some, not for others. Why it is for some and not others is part of the mystery which, if solved, might throw partial light on a much bigger situation. Circles within circles, a multitude of varying inter-relationships may cover the spectrum and through up these different manifestations, that's what I took from the article principally. But it's not just about food issues.

I have the luxury of having a lot of time to do scientific reading, which I enjoy. One of interesting themes that has been around for at least 10 years in scientific circles re autism is problems with methylation and oxidative stress. (If you are interested and have some scientific literacy this link represents well a lot of other papers:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15585776) I offer it as an example..

Yet I never see media mention of this considerable body of research, nor do I see any discussion of it on WP. And this is just one example of one kind of thinking that is not locked into the simplistic received ideas that do get reported all the time. One reason is that the good scientific stuff is not sensational and harder to understand if you don't have some background that is relevant eg in biochemistry.

My point is that there is a lot more out there than seems to be generally realised on WP - a lot of thorough scientific work that offers severe challenges to the received versions of ASDs that dominate on WP. And I think that this narrow focus is missing a lot of very valuable stuff.

For some reason the editing function wouldn't work, so the above continues:

However I realise that not everyone shares an interest in science, so I want to express the brain body connection in everyday terms: what is the brain made up of? Cells. What is the rest of the body made up of? Cells. That, in a nutshell, is the essence of the brain body and body brain linkages. Cells throughout the various parts of the brain and rest of the body are specialised and work in concert like different instruments in an orchestra. To think that there are no "orchestral effects" ie that ASDs are "just a neurological condition" is not a tenable proposition so far as I can see, at the most basic level.

I'll qualify everything that I'm about to write with the admission that I haven't finished reading the paper yet (I've read about 50% so far).

From what I understand, they are advocating that some research be done where the assumption at the start is not that autism is "strongly genetic, brain-based" but rather "genetically influenced, systemic". If they can convince people who give research grants that this is a valid hypothesis deserving of study then I agree, they totally should. They don't claim that this is the case for everyone ".. even if any one such target only applies to a subset of autistic individuals with the appropriate biological underpinnings."

I can appreciate any 'free thinking' backed up with logic and reason and presented with appropriate evidence for peer review. It should certainly be encouraged.

The only negative I have to say about the article is the assumption that we are 'broken' and need to be 'fixed' rather than just 'different'. For those who want to be 'cured' and have the appropriate biological underpinnings, this line of research may give renewed hope. To the rest of us, business as usual.
Keep thinking everyone!
Maz

Wouldn't the existing "health and fitness" forum be suitable for this sort of thing?

What is the brain made up of? Cells.

What is paper made up of? Cells.
Global paper usage:

Autism diagnosis:


Only one conclusion can possibly be drawn here...

... the rise in paper consumption is due to doctors writing ASD diagnoses!

As far as I'm concerned, the autism "incidence" increased, primarily, because of the broadened definition of autism, and a greater awareness of autism in people who are relatively mildly affected.

Yep, Walrus, that was a great illustration of correlations.