*"Me too, me too!" Reactions?*

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ouinon:

Introspectively I see my “me too” reaction as resulting from a desire to see some manifestation of myself in others. I often feel like a pure observer of events surrounding me with no real connection.

Well, I take that back, there is a connection, but it seems to be a one way street, at least emotionally. I am clearly influenced by my environment, stimulated by conversations and dialog going on around me, etc. Yet I don’t feel a strong connection to how I see other people reacting. The way they react to their environment doesn’t jive with how I am comfortable responding in the same situation. I believe they see me in the same manner, yet they have the advantage of being in the majority. The fact that non-autistics are in the majority does seem to be the main asymmetry of the situation.

I also notice what another person has posted, that when I try to describe these things to NT’s they often downplay it. They often say that “everybody experiences this”. Maybe they do from time to time, but I am certain it isn’t nearly to the same degree.

I am a "me too" type person.... only I go "I do this" then go on to explain my version, usually ending with a "...anybody else do...?" linked to the original question. This becomes very long.

I do it because no one in my life has ever made sense to me, until I came onto this board. No one.

Then I got to this board, and people act a lot like me, I can say "I am not alone!" Every single "I do this" tightens my mind around the idea that I belong here, and am not delusional.

Then, in the parent's section, they ask these social/behavioral questions that I actually have a plausible answer to, because I lived some of them. I had to deal with people who didn't understand me, who didn't want to understand me.

So it looks as if there are at least three factors involved for those who experience this:

1) oppressed minority status; simply being different from the majority means that discovery of others/another doing or feeling the same is like finding family/blood relation/kin. Precious.

This kind of reflection/feedback; if it is actually useful/essential for ( everybody's) construction of sense of self, it will take longer for us, ( being rarer) and be more "complicated", creating inner conflict, because will clearly be a minority thing.

2) a perhaps radically different experience of the "self" compared to NTs: if the body is the self then the particular health problems ( eg: auto-immune disorders) and Sensory Processing Differences associated with AS may account for a long or in fact infinite process of self-discovery because less stable/securely "bounded".

3) sex-differentiation; more women ( 27) have so far responded to this poll than men (17). Of the 27 women only 2 ( about 7%) do not do this; of the 17 men 4 ( almost 25%) don't.

I wonder what the figures would be for an NT group.

Last edited by ouinon on 12 May 2008, 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Has anybody ever "made a mistake" with a "Me too!"?

Felt/expressed "Me too!" about something someone described/manifested only to significantly/radically change their mind about this, decide that they were wrong, or confused, or distracted, or affected by other factors in reacting like that, and that in the cold light of a day several months or years later realise that it was a seriously self-deluded/delusional/inaccurate assessment?

Does this ring bells for anyone?

I don't think that I have ever made a mistake about the elements involved, but I have made mistakes about what this element in common might mean; as in that, for example, I obviously should have sex with someone who felt the same way about something as me.

Or for a few months last year ( before finding wp) thinking that my ( fairly persistent) feeling like " a gay guy in a woman's body" meant that I might fit in with a "butch femme trans" community, though actually people's reaction to my stating that on a bft site should have warned me that there was ( almost) no answering recognition of my experience there!

Now I know that in fact this kind of gender "dysphoria" is often an aspect of Aspergers. ( that was a "Me too" moment, reading that in the Womens forum on here! ) .

And actually now I think about it, I didn't get the "Me too!" in reaction to the bft site's discussions, ( only a sense of "...yes almost... that's nearly the same... sort of..." ), but only on reading someone saying exactly the same thing, word for word, on here, WrongPlanet.

Apologize in advance for length of my comment. It touches on the issue of how several things (aspects, features, symptoms) can appear identical on the surface yet are of dissimilar/unrelated etiologies on deeper level. Posted this somewhere on WP before but can't find it now (in order to save space by putting link here instead of the whole essay):
What is Stereotypical Syndrome, really ? In reference to autism spectrum diagnoses & "medical student" or "textbook" disease (learning about disorders can induce temporary hysteria/hypochondria, where the reader/listener becomes convinced he/she has a malady that he/she does not).

There's no "control" group (a comparison with only one altered variable) for one's particular life, and how it has unfolded over time as a co-creation of genes & environment. Ever since I can remember, I felt different ("what's wrong with me ?"). Have spent all these years trying out possibilities, searching for what could explain my peculiarities, many of which I was unaware of until after being diagnosed (in adulthood). Doesn't mean those differences didn't exist-only that no one (incl. me) knew how to conceptualize & verbalize them.

Assumed that if only I'd grown up in a different family (I blamed nurture, not nature), I'd have been happier-and that once I grew up & left my family, I would recover from their influence-and my issues. Have come to realize that problems are the natural outgrowth of human life, and that problems aren't limited to the home in which I was raised. It's obvious to me now, but when I was ignorant of this, I had no way to understand that I didn't know. Suffice it to say, events that transpired during my childhood (conscious interpretations of my external environment) are insufficient to explain the adult I've become-so that leaves biology (unconscious expressions of my internal environment). Have been told both that "there is definitely something 'off' or 'weird' about you" and "there's nothing wrong with you-other than your false belief that there is something wrong with you".

Hypothetical comparison:
If I had a brain tumor, the symptoms would be present ("real", physical, perhaps also only noticed as less clear neurological signs) but I wouldn't know what to make of them. I'd have no name to group them under, as parts of a single phenomenon, and would wonder "am I crazy, imagining this, delusional ?". Once I went to a doctor, if he/she diagnosed me with some other problem instead, I'd try to explain my symptoms as being expressions of that wrong diagnosis. This might replay itself over & over until I got what turned out to be correct diagnosis-brain tumor. Then I'd settle on that as being the proper "Rosetta Stone" with which to decode & interpret my subjective experiences.

With research, I'd assimilate & integrate specific information about that dx and how it fits with my individual situation. I'd start using the terminology of that medical problem & overlaying that framework atop all sorts of things in my daily life. I'd "seem" more like a person with a brain tumor, though of course I'd be no more or less "someone with a brain tumor" than the day before I got that diagnosis (officially, from doctor-whether or not I'd suspected this might be so, on my own). Would radical revision of my perspective (for what seem like valid reasons) cause people to categorize me as displaying "stereotypical syndrome" ?

I've had plenty of "mental" diagnoses floated (whether assigned by a professional or that I've seized upon in a book) as applying to me, and with each one came "keys" (like the legend in corner of map) through which to interpret my "symptoms". I used those in trying to comprehend myself, though these ideas just perpetuated themselves with superficial & circular reasoning. It's not my fault that I didn't get this label first, so have 'worn many hats' before trying this one on-yet, all the while, I was basically same person with similar problems. Didn't go from BEING a depressed or anxious person to someone with a personality disorder to someone who has an autism-related-condition. Whatever the concepts or precepts, I interpreted my idiosyncratic hieroglyphics using the keys I had, with unproductive results/conclusions. The current (most recent) label I've acquired (Asperger's Syndrome, a "high-functioning" person with autism spectrum disorder) seemed ridiculous when first it was suggested to me-but I've gotten more used to it (in the almost 4 years since then). ASD label comes without blame towards me, which in itself is very freeing-especially since other diagnoses seem to fault the person suffering from them ("if only you would do this, you'd feel that, and then be okay"). It also happens to be closest thing to an accurate "Rosetta Stone" with which to decode my physiological hieroglyphics (not overnight, but in slow process of unearthing connections between words and experiences).

People may react differently towards me (as in the past, with my previous diagnoses), based on what they call (how they explain) what it is that's different about me. I may attribute my pre-existing (lifelong) difficulties to this new label, connecting problems that never had a name with the plethora of acronyms suddenly available to me. I do have skepticism about whether I'm "buying into" a type that will turn out not to fit me after all-but that's been a hazard for every & any diagnosis (depending on how well the label seemed to fit, in the minds of the doctor and the 'client'-me). Inherent "wiggle-room" in deciding the threshold, cut-off point, and "where does one draw the line ?" (of "real" dysfunction vs. "normal" variation) doesn't render all judgments/determinations moot. It means everyone has to remain careful, on guard against erroneous assumptions-but not all assumptions are untrue & invalid-they may just arise from an incorrect origin.

Once one has a word for something, that (named phenomenon) may suddenly seem omnipresent-or at least a lot more frequent. Until point when I got ASD diagnosis, if asked to list my "symptoms" my profile might not seem to add up to an ASD. The words I used to describe myself wouldn't be couched in PDD terms, because my available conceptual framework was amalgam of all the previous diagnoses I'd accumulated. Those were the only ideas for which I had words with which to narrate, contextualize and encode conscious memories/experiences. So, of course that might make someone seem even more (whatever the new identity is)-but that doesn't mean the person is automatically changed, physically (bodily condition) he/she is the same.

How an individual expresses & presents oneself, relates to oneself & other people, and how others perceive/interpret that person (and how the "new name for an old face" affects the relationship) in light of new information* can lead to gradual or sudden changes in one's life (mental condition and societal status-social networks & being external/out in the world). What difference, if any, does getting a diagnosis make ? What changes does it enable, influence, allow, initiate, reveal ?
* diagnosis being just one possible example of a personal disclosure.

I'm a me too-er...in my own way.

For 40 years I thought I was alone. I tried to talk to people and explain myself, and they inevitably looked at me like I had sprouted an extra head.

Then, I found WP. I started reading posts about people who experienced things the EXACT same way I did. Things that I thought were entirely UNIQUE to me...aren't.

I feel comfortable knowing that I am validated. I am not odd, alone and possibly insane. I am simply an aspie. We are a group of people who have a common ground. I feel at home here.

So when I go out into the world, I can remember that I'm not the only one who is different. I can be brave and be more of myself than ever before.

I have a tribe. I belong.

mmm, I try to make sure the person feels secure that they're not alone in whatever oddity or quirk they might have, but I'm always honest about it. And I try my very best not to exaggerate. But to be honest, I really don't care for attention :S *hides*

"Me too!" to that Except that I did at times have friends who I seemed more understood by; manic depressives, depressives, stone-heads, transvestite bisexual guys and radical lesbian feminists for example!

Thank you, Belfast, for your quotes from Damasio, and for taking the time to type/paste in your long piece above in absence of link. I was very interested to read your experiences of using labels/acronyms/terminologies one after another to explain/understand/identify your "self" because , ever since I can remember I have been doing this too, though extensive alcohol consumption etc in late teens and twenties put a stop to it for a while.

Will post more about Damasio later but am going to watch a film with my son. Thanks again.

Last edited by ouinon on 13 May 2008, 2:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

I found Damasio's description of mental images as representations of bodily experience interesting; that "thought" is never pure/abstract, but always connected with/based on a corresponding physical experience/template.

This is something I most see in my dreams ( sleeping), that they are like my body "talking" to me.