Can autism get lesser?

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nominalist
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28 Dec 2007, 8:03 pm

anbuend wrote:

But that might be different than what you're talking about.

Yes, it is different. I mean testimonials designed to convince people to get a particular treatment.

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autism_diva
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28 Dec 2007, 8:07 pm

TLPG wrote:

Thanks for corrections, Diva, and the extra info. I knew about the dosage issue, but I avoided it precisely because of what you said about water, salt - it also applies to virtually everything else one consumes.

But the root point about different types of mercury stays. That's the problem with the mercury militia - as far as they are concerned, mercury is mercury. And it's not that simple.

It took me a long time to get the point of ethyl and methyl, inorganic and organic and metallic and sulfides...

I don't understand it the way some of the other hub bloggers do (like Prometheus and Bartholomew Cubbins). I do know that chelators can grab onto a metal or mineral and then let go of it, thus freeing up mercury or whatever and causing more damage. Some kids get sick on chelation and their parents then call it "a healing regression". It's disgusting.

The Snyder boy (from the Omnibus hearings) "regressed" after being chelated by Bradstreet. (day 1 page 248). Bradstreet adds that "he didn't do well after chelation."

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autism_diva
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28 Dec 2007, 8:07 pm

nominalist wrote:

For what it's worth, I am happy that you are here, autism_diva. You are a good person to be on Wrong Planet.

Thank you, nominalist.

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nominalist
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28 Dec 2007, 8:07 pm

zendell wrote:

I don't think the increase in autism is due to a genetic epidemic but I'm sure you "know" otherwise.

An increase in autism diagnoses (whether due to changes in DSM nosology, more qualified practitioners, or other factors) is not the same as an increase in autism. Most academic researchers I have seen in the literature see no evidence for an actual increase in autism.

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28 Dec 2007, 8:08 pm

Here's a recent study implicating 3 infections in ASDs. The same infections are also found in people with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). I have both autism and CFS and my autism improves and worsens at the same time my CFS symptoms change. Brain fog makes it hard for me to socialize. A poor short-term memory makes verbal communication hard since I forget what the other person said before it's my turn to talk. Infections that cause CFS can easily cause autistic symptoms in people born with infections (transmitted to fetus from mother). Mycoplasma has been found to contaminate vaccines so that's why some people may develop normally and then suddenly become autistic after being vaccinated.

Quote:

Evidence for Mycoplasma ssp., Chlamydia pneunomiae, and human herpes virus-6 coinfections in the blood of patients with autistic spectrum disorders.
J Neurosci Res. 2007 Apr;85(5):1143-8.
Nicolson GL, Gan R, Nicolson NL, Haier J.

The Institute for Molecular Medicine, Huntington Beach, California 92647, USA. [email protected]

We examined the blood of 48 patients from central and southern California diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorders (ASD) by using forensic polymerase chain reaction and found that a large subset (28/48 or 58.3%) of patients showed evidence of Mycoplasma spp. infections compared with two of 45 (4.7%) age-matched control subjects (odds ratio = 13.8, P < 0.001). Because ASD patients have a high prevalence of one or more Mycoplasma spp. and sometimes show evidence of infections with Chlamydia pneumoniae, we examined ASD patients for other infections. Also, the presence of one or more systemic infections may predispose ASD patients to other infections, so we examined the prevalence of C. pneumoniae (4/48 or 8.3% positive, odds ratio = 5.6, P < 0.01) and human herpes virus-6 (HHV-6, 14/48 or 29.2%, odds ratio = 4.5, P < 0.01) coinfections in ASD patients. We found that Mycoplasma-positive and -negative ASD patients had similar percentages of C. pneumoniae and HHV-6 infections, suggesting that such infections occur independently in ASD patients. Control subjects also had low rates of C. pneumoniae (1/48 or 2.1%) and HHV-6 (4/48 or 8.3%) infections, and there were no coinfections in control subjects. The results indicate that a large subset of ASD patients shows evidence of bacterial and/or viral infections (odds ratio = 16.5, P < 0.001). The significance of these infections in ASD is discussed in terms of appropriate treatment. (c) 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID: 17265454 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The same infections are also implicated in chronic fatigue syndrome

Quote:

Multiple co-infections (Mycoplasma, Chlamydia, human herpes virus-6) in blood of chronic fatigue syndrome patients: association with signs and symptoms.
APMIS. 2003 May;111(5):557-66.
Nicolson GL, Gan R, Haier J.

The Institute for Molecular Medicine, Huntington Beach, California 92649, USA. [email protected]

Previously we and others found that a majority of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) patients showed evidence of systemic mycoplasmal infections, and their blood tested positive using a polymerase chain reaction assay for at least one of the four following Mycoplasma species: M. fermentans, M. hominis, M. pneumoniae or M. penetrans. Consistent with previous results, patients in the current study (n=200) showed a high prevalence (overall 52%) of mycoplasmal infections. Using forensic polymerase chain reaction we also examined whether these same patients showed evidence of infections with Chlamydia pneumoniae (overall 7.5% positive) and/or active human herpes virus-6 (HHV-6, overall 30.5% positive). Since the presence of one or more infections may predispose patients to other infections, we examined the prevalence of C. pneumoniae and HHV-6 active infections in mycoplasma-positive and -negative patients. Unexpectedly, we found that the incidence of C. pneumoniae or HHV-6 was similar in Mycoplasma-positive and -negative patients, and the converse was also found in active HHV-6-positive and -negative patients. Control subjects (n=100) had low rates of mycoplasmal (6%), active HHV-6 (9%) or chlamydial (1%) infections, and there were no co-infections in control subjects. Differences in bacterial and/or viral infections in CFS patients compared to control subjects were significant. Severity and incidence of patients' signs and symptoms were compared within the above groups. Although there was a tendency for patients with multiple infections to have more severe signs and symptoms (p<0.01), the only significant differences found were in the incidence and severity of certain signs and symptoms in patients with multiple co-infections of any type compared to the other groups (p<0.01). There was no correlation between the type of co-infection and severity of signs and symptoms. The results indicate that a large subset of CFS patients show evidence of bacterial and/or viral infection(s), and these infections may contribute to the severity of signs and symptoms found in these patients.

PMID: 12887507 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Summary
Mycoplasma - 58% with ASD, 52% with CFS, 5% in control group
HHV-6 - 29% with ASD, 31% with CFS, 8% in control group
Chlamydia pneumonia - 8% with ASD, 8% with CFS, 1% in control group

Over 75% of people with ASDs tested positive for one of these infections. These infections can be treated which would make autism get lesser while the infections are being cured.

autism_diva
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28 Dec 2007, 8:20 pm

zendell wrote:

Quote:

they know the truth - that ASD's are genetic in origin and can not be cured.

That's your opinion. About 10% of the causes of ASD have been shown to be genetic but for the other 90% the cause is unknown. There's plenty of evidence implicating viruses and mercury which are able to cause genes to spontaneously mutate so even if genes are involved it still doesn't rule out mercury and viruses. I quoted 9 scientific peer-reviewed studies that I got from the PubMed site that show that increased mercury exposure from five separate sources all lead to higher rates of autism. I don't think the increase in autism is due to a genetic epidemic but I'm sure you "know" otherwise.

Do you think the mutations that cause autism occur in kids after they are vaccinated? No, they occur in the paernts and grandparents of the autistic kids. Your citations from Pub Med add up to nothing. Autistic kids are not more likely to have heavy metals in them than are typical kids. Where do you get this 10% thing? The better evidence is that about 40-50 percent of people who fit the criteria for autism also have a known genetic disorder that can account for the autism. The problem is that most autistic kids don't get the extremely thorough testing that is required to rule out several of the relatively common causes. it's expensive to rule out a series of possible genetic disorders and most people aren't in to doing MRIs on all people with autism in order to find the ones with obvious structural anomolies (like agenesis of the corpus collosum) or tuberous sclerosis. They aren't looking for very mild or atypical looking forms of Smith-Lemli Opitz or Frag X, or WS... Margaret Bauman thinks that maybe 1% of the kids she sees have a mitochondrial disorder (these kids are very sickly and low energy and benefit -she says- from OTC kind of supplements like CoQ10 and vitamins). A mito disorder needs to be tested by a muscle biopsy.

There will probably always be people whose genes are responsible but people can't see why. If it takes 5 interacting genes to cause autism and they can be one of a whole lot of different genes, then how do you know which combination does what?

Just because you can't find a particular gene difference in one person doesn't mean that their autism is not caused by a mutation or by a combination of alleles that are not found in either of their parents in the same way.

Researchers figured out some environmental causes for autism, but then they stopped finding any new ones. It looks like it's a pretty short list. Thalidomide, valproic acid, misprostol, alcohol, possibly terbutaline; and some viruses, including possibly the flu virus. Terbutaline is one of the newer ideas and so is the flu virus.

No one ever noticed that being exposed to anything else increased the likelihood of being autistic.

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autism_diva
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28 Dec 2007, 8:47 pm

Let me guess, you don't know what the Institute for Molecular Medicine is? Hint, association of nobodies with some big ideas. Check out their website. Garth Nicolson PhD (not an MD), the author of these papers spoke at one of the more extreme autism quackery conference ever held. (see below) If he found mycoplasma or whatever in the blood of autistic adults that doesn't mean that it causes autism. Not if they didn't have these things in their blood before they were 3 years old.

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zendell wrote:

Quote:

Evidence for Mycoplasma ssp., Chlamydia pneunomiae, and human herpes virus-6 coinfections in the blood of patients with autistic spectrum disorders.
J Neurosci Res. 2007 Apr;85(5):1143-8.
Nicolson GL, Gan R, Nicolson NL, Haier J.

The Institute for Molecular Medicine, Huntington Beach, California 92647, USA. [email protected]

We examined the blood of 48 patients from central and southern California diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorders (ASD) by using forensic polymerase chain reaction and found that a large subset (28/48 or 58.3%) of patients showed evidence of Mycoplasma spp. infections compared with two of 45 (4.7%) age-matched control subjects (odds ratio = 13.8, P < 0.001). Because ASD patients have a high prevalence of one or more Mycoplasma spp. and sometimes show evidence of infections with Chlamydia pneumoniae, we examined ASD patients for other infections. Also, the presence of one or more systemic infections may predispose ASD patients to other infections, so we examined the prevalence of C. pneumoniae (4/48 or 8.3% positive, odds ratio = 5.6, P < 0.01) and human herpes virus-6 (HHV-6, 14/48 or 29.2%, odds ratio = 4.5, P < 0.01) coinfections in ASD patients. We found that Mycoplasma-positive and -negative ASD patients had similar percentages of C. pneumoniae and HHV-6 infections, suggesting that such infections occur independently in ASD patients. Control subjects also had low rates of C. pneumoniae (1/48 or 2.1%) and HHV-6 (4/48 or 8.3%) infections, and there were no coinfections in control subjects. The results indicate that a large subset of ASD patients shows evidence of bacterial and/or viral infections (odds ratio = 16.5, P < 0.001). The significance of these infections in ASD is discussed in terms of appropriate treatment. (c) 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID: 17265454 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The same infections are also implicated in chronic fatigue syndrome

Quote:

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zendell
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28 Dec 2007, 8:53 pm

Quote:

Your citations from Pub Med add up to nothing.

What makes you think you know more than scientists and researchers who have studied autism for years? Why do you reject valid scientific studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals?

Quote:

Do you think the mutations that cause autism occur in kids after they are vaccinated? No, they occur in the paernts and grandparents of the autistic kids.

86% of the spontaneous mutations are only found in the kids with autism. Only 14% were found in other family members.

I learned about the mutations in the news earlier this year. Researchers "found the spontaneous mutations in 14 of 195 people with autism spectrum disorders compared to two of 196 unaffected individuals. Among the 14 autism patients with mutations, 12 were the only affected members of their family, while two were in families with other affected individuals." Here's a link to it http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 161043.htm It's from ScienceDaily, but since you reject science, you probably won't be convinced.

Joeker
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29 Dec 2007, 4:24 am

TLPG wrote:

And I've said this on this forum before and I'll repeat it. There are two sorts of mercury - ethyl mercury and methyl mercury. Methyl mercury is the dangerous one, and we have been avoiding that for decades. Ethyl mercury is SAFE. It is after all a natural aspect of fish and breast milk. It's also the variety of mercury that is used in thiomersal. This is all about idiots who refuse to acknowledge this fact (I'm referring to the mercury militia of course) and try to grey up the mercury argument to involve methyl mercury in an issue that it has absolutely nothing to do with.

Tell me, what are the proportions of mercury in comparison? Ethyl mercury in breast milk, ethyl mercury in fish, compared to the amount of ethyl mercury in vaccines. How much is natural, and how much is an imbalance? Too much of anything can be bad.

I think there's a hell of a lot more ethyl mercury in Thimerosal than in a fish ( :nemo:

) or a breast.

:joker:

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TLPG
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29 Dec 2007, 4:27 am

Zendell what are you scientific qualifications in this area?

I'm asking because it looks to me right now that you don't know quackery when you see it.

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29 Dec 2007, 4:39 am

TLPG, what are your scientific qualifications in this area?
What, are peer-reviewed studies inadequate?

They aren't quacks if their theories hold true, and their hypotheses are proven. If they can't establish repeatability and validity, they'd not be published.

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beau99
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29 Dec 2007, 4:39 am

Joeker wrote:

I think there's a hell of a lot more ethyl mercury in Thimerosal than in a fish ( :nemo:

)

Of course, since it's methylmercury that's found in fish.

There's a reason why thimerosal is safe and certain fish aren't.

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Joeker
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29 Dec 2007, 4:42 am

beau99 wrote:

Joeker wrote:

I think there's a hell of a lot more ethyl mercury in Thimerosal than in a fish ( :nemo:

)

Of course, since it's methylmercury that's found in fish.

There's a reason why thimerosal is safe and certain fish aren't.

TLPG wrote:

Ethyl mercury is SAFE. It is after all a natural aspect of fish and breast milk. It's also the variety of mercury that is used in thiomersal.

We've got contradictions...
Help me sort this out, would you?

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zendell
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29 Dec 2007, 12:39 pm

Quote:

Zendell what are your scientific qualifications in this area?

I'm not a scientist but I learned how to read and evaluate scientific studies. I look up scientific publications on PubMed because that seems like a reliable site that lists qualified peer-reviewed scientific journals. I have HFA and I want to know all about it so I've been looking at the research to see what may cause it.

I really want good reliable information. If you think PubMed is quackery, please let me know why.

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29 Dec 2007, 12:53 pm

FYI - I've always thought autism was genetic. I was born with high-functioning autism. I didn't know there was a label for it until a year ago. I knew I was different since I was a kid. I didn't see a doctor about my differences because I always assumed I was different due to normal genetic variations especially since my parents and family also have similar autistic traits. I was very surprised when I found out there was a name for my differences. When I first researched autism, most of the information said it was probably due to genetics which is exactly what I always believed. However, being open-minded with a thirst for knowledge, I looked at other theories and found some researchers believed in environmental causes. I became convinced in environmental causes when I tried the alternative treatments (gfcf diet, antifungals, probiotics) and they actually worked. I learned to be mostly content with being abnormal and alone. After I tried the gfcf diet, I started understanding people better and feeling more normal and I would NEVER want to go back to the way I was before. I am so much happier now and wish I learned of the diet and other treatments when I was younger. I'd probably have lots of friends, a family, and a good job if I was treated earlier with the biomedical interventions. I don't think autistic children should have to suffer when effective treatments are available now. There's no reason to wait until the treatments are conclusively proven since most treatments have enormous benefits with little or no risks.

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29 Dec 2007, 4:31 pm

zendell wrote:

Quote:

Zendell what are your scientific qualifications in this area?

I'm not a scientist but I learned how to read and evaluate scientific studies.

If you aren't a qualified scientist then there's no way you can properly evaluate scientific studies.

The person to talk to about this is Autism Diva. She has the qualifications. She knows dumb when she sees it and what was on PubMed was dumb (dumb was the word she used - and in my book dumb equals quackery). It's why I listen when she speaks on these matters - including a correction on what sort of mercury is in fish.

Just as a general note - there is only 1.25 micrograms of mercury in vaccines (read thiomersal). There is more than that in fish or breast milk.

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