Do you agree with what Wikipedia has to say about empathy?

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I thought this was interesting. Some people here say that they disagree with the "lack of empathy" that ASD are supposed to have. This Wikipedia entry sounds like it may give an interesting light. I was wondering what everyone else thinks about the article, and if they agree? :

"Autism spectrum disorders

A common source of confusion in analyzing the interactions between empathy and autism spectrum disorders (ASD) is that the apparent lack of empathy may mask excessive sensitivity.[58] An apparent lack of empathy may also mask a failure to demonstrate empathy can arise from inability (or not knowing how) to express empathy to others, as opposed to difficulty feeling it, internally.

Research suggests that many ASD individuals have a lack of theory of mind[59] (ToM) and alexithymia (85% of those with ASD's have alexithymia),[60] both of which conditions involve severe deficits in the individual's ability to be empathetically attuned to others. Alexithymia involves not just the inability to verbally express emotions, but specifically the inability to identify emotional states in self or others.[61] However, research by Rogers et al. suggests that empathy needs to be differentiated between cognitive empathy and affective empathy in people with Asperger syndrome, suggesting autistic individuals have less developed understanding of the feeling of others, but demonstrate equally as much empathy when they are aware of others' states of mind, and actually respond more to stress experienced by other people than non-autistic people do.[62]

One study found that, relative to typically developing children, high-functioning children with autism showed reduced mirror neuron activity in the brain's inferior frontal gyrus (pars opercularis) while imitating and observing emotional expressions.[63] The authors suggested that their study supports the hypothesis that a dysfunctional mirror neuron system may underlie the social deficits observed in autism. However, this finding should be taken with extreme caution, since it has not been replicated by other fMRI studies.[64]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy#Au ... _disorders

When I took the Emotional Quotient test, I scored a 6, but I strongly disagree that I have no feelings. I just don't think I know how to demonstrate them. I also think that I'm very unaware if others see me as having no empathy. (Here's the Empathy Quotient test http://homepage.mac.com/lpetrich/Asperg ... tient.html )

Last edited by NicksQuestions on 16 Jun 2009, 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think it is true but not 100% there are cases of over emotive ASD someone I knew had it I think he was qui emotional e.g. never wanted to be alone etc etc. It should never be 100% as most of the time people on wiki are complete novices at best my empathy score was 6 or 8 i think so it is more concepted that Aspies have less empathy or none

Yes, when I hear about people scoring a 6 on the EQ and then find the Wiki article saying that we actually do have feelings but at the same time don't know how to connect, I find it interesting.

It would be nice if there was a more objective way to test empathy. I almost never get the kind of feedback from people that would help answer the questions more accurately. From an inside perspective I feel like I'm extremely sensitive to noticing other people's feelings but I'm so socially awkward that I seem distant. I just don't ever know what to say to people.

I tend not to get very interested in other people's lives unless they share something in common with me. I don't ever feel natural congratulating people, giving compliments, or gushing with emotion for them. In this sense maybe I do lack empathy. I lack the warm/fuzzy superficial type of empathy. I do like helping people in need though.

I also don't believe that I offend people often (unless it's intentional or I just don't care, of course), though it's impossible to tell if people may be mildly offended by something I say yet hide their reaction. If someone seems overly quiet after I say something I sometimes worry that I said something wrong, yet it could just be that they feel tired/bored and have nothing to add. I get a little knock-in-the-gut feeling whenever people don't give a positive response or indication that they heard me.

I scored over 40 a couple of times since I began ASD therapy and I have zero empathy.

I lacked TOM as a kid and it's still deficient but I do not have alexithymia.

An objective way to test for empathy? Feelings themselves are subjective things--and even more subjective are other's perceptions of whether another understands their feelings or not. With the sheer amount of conscious effort spectrum people typically exert, I think we understand emotions well as is.It just happens to not be their understanding.

The article hits a cord with me, always knew I have these feelings but they are so uncomfortable/intense I disengage. Plus I'm confused as to what is required of me emotionally, do I hug the person?, say something comforting?(But what), is cying the appropriate thing?. Too hard, I prefer to flee or disengage from the moment or say something very 'Cold'.

TOM has always been an issue for me since childhood and still causes me much distress in social situations.

Alexithymia would explain my lack of emotional closeness to my wife and children.


I have noticed Wikepedia's articles and information have improved in quality of late.

I guess what I was trying to say in the first paragraph is that a lot of the questions can't be answered honestly other than to say "I don't know" which isn't an option on the test. As long as people don't tell me that I'm misreading them or offending them I assume that I'm doing alright. Without feedback I have no way of knowing whether I'm screwing up. People don't usually give feedback on how they feel unless you make a particularly egregious social faux pas.

Now I'm interested in learning more about how they actually test how valid a test is for empathy. I've always been the type who likes reading through peer-review journal articles to see how they set up research studies.

I guess this is the way I look at it. Different people interpret situations differently, and anyone can change things around so that their beliefs match the evidence. Before Science, people would use logic and observation to come to conclusions, then Newton came along saying you have to test your ideas. Although you can't prove, if something can predict how a study will turn out before the fact, it would seem it's more reasonable to believe then ideas that can't do the same. So in Science they use "predictive power". Although emotions are very subject, I would think there's a continuum of objectivity<-->subjectivity. Using predictive power could help move our interpretations of emotions more towards the object end of the spectrum, even if it's still subjective. Some objectivity is better than none at all.

Or another thing to think about, if I'm on the WrongPlanet website, I'm on the Internet. If that's 100% true in every situation and I find out that I'm on the Internet, that doesn't prove I'm on WP website, because there could be another rule "If MSN website then the Internet". However, I can make it falsifiable because if I'm not on the Internet than I can't be on WP. In Science you say "If theory A is true, then observation B will happen." If that's 100% correct and observation B happens, there can always be a better theory (not deductive logic to prove). If observation B doesn't happen, then if your starting assumptions are true, then deductive logic (modus tollens) says your theory can't be true. When they say you can only disprove and not prove in Science, that only applies to deductive logic, and it's still not practical to prove because 'If theory A is true then observation B will happen" may be wrong or observation B may have been misread. However, scientists still tend to believe that it's much easier to disprove a theory than to prove a theory/law (If a physics law is universal, it'll happen a 1,000 times, but if it happens 1,000 times that doesn't mean the reverse that it is universal. It could be true that there's an alternative saying only in such and such situations does it happen. Then the law not happening one time would mean it's not universal, but there's always the possibility something was misinterpreted.)

In the end, although you can't prove or disprove for sure, in Science you can say "Given the evidence so far, this is the best explanation."

It's pretty much right. It surmises autism, and leaves you the studies for futher research.

That article seems pretty accurate to me.

as for compliment giving and warm and fuzzies - I learned to give compliments ten years ago. I learned it as a strategy cognitively. It has held me in good stead and helped me to bridge gaps with people. Prior to giving the compliment i do not "feel" anything, but i can muster internal emotions that are positive that are generated by the cognitive process. I suspect this is the reverse to how it is for many and most people I have talked with, without an ASD. They FEEL warm and fuzzy and complimentary and THEN vocalise it.

Last edited by millie on 17 Jun 2009, 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

I do not lack empathy and this article I feel explains how I feel:
A Radical New Autism Theory (Overload of emotions!)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and- ... eory/full/

I got 35 in the EQ ... but most of my empathy was learned via novels, Dale Carnegie, a book called People Skills, Myers Briggs books, various self help books.

My empathy is a sort of running commentary in my mind saying "Oh, better not say that, they might get upset at that. Past experience has shown this. Yes this is fine. No, that isnt fine... Say this but dont say that.... Yes that is good to say as shown in Dale Carnegie's book."

My social skills arent too bad now but they are anything but instinctive, lol...

I think I use to learned, as acted / pretended how I thought I should and then realized ok just to be me... with me I sense as much as say and kind of pull in everyone else's emotions at times and overload, I sense and feel at a deeper level, so I guess have a different sort of empathy... but saying we do not have, because others do not understand I feel is wrong and misleading...

I always had sympathy, but most of my social empathy had to be learned. I guess that is the way I would say it. I had to literally learn what others were thinking, and then sort of integrate it all into my mind.

I don't have any empathy, but I have care and compassion for those I know/care for.

A good way to tell if you have empathy or not is to see if you feel anything when watching the news, and you see something like, young girl [that you don't know] is brutally murdered. If you feel sadness, shock and whatever, you have empathy. If you feel nothing, you don't.

I'd do my best to help people I don't know if it's an emergency, even though I wouldn't feel anything for their plight.