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carturo222
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15 Jul 2009, 1:28 am

protest_the_hero
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15 Jul 2009, 1:51 am

Why?



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15 Jul 2009, 2:06 am

This is why. Good word for us to know, thank you.

Quote:
Phatic

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In linguistics, a phatic expression is one whose only function is to perform a social task, as opposed to conveying information.[1] The term was coined by anthropologist Bronisław Malinowski in the early 1900s.

For example, "you're welcome" is not intended to convey the message that the hearer is welcome; it is a phatic response to being thanked, which in turn is a phatic whose function is to be polite in response to a gift.

Similarly, in the English language, the question "how are you?" is usually an automatic component of a social encounter. Although there are times when "how are you?" is asked in a sincere, concerned manner and does in fact anticipate a detailed response regarding the respondent's present state, this needs to be pragmatically inferred from context and intonation.

As an example of the former: a simple, basic exchange, shared by many that see each other every day at work, but must fulfill that social obligation each morning, or at first contact:

Speaker one: "What's up?"

Speaker two: "Hey, man, how's it going?"

And each just walks on.

Neither expects an answer to his/her question. Much like a shared nod, it's an indication that each has recognized the other's existence and has therefore performed sufficiently that particular social duty.


The utterance of a phatic expression is a kind of speech act.

In speech communication the term means "small talk" (conversation for its own sake) and has also been called "grooming talking".[2]


[edit] See also

* Etiquette
* Stock phrase
* Sociolinguistics



wigglyspider
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15 Jul 2009, 2:42 am

^I totally just read that article a couple days ago. I ALMOST made a post about the "what's up?" "how's it going?" exchange. It just sounds weird to me. I gotta think that SOME NT people will agree that it sounds a little weird if the person doesn't give an answer before asking. Like, I always try to say "good, you?" or something like that. Also, the question/question exchange seems a little less strange for people who know each other, but what about if it's a stranger on the street? Can you still do that, or is answering the question a better way to answer?

I'm really not so bad at this stuff usually, but this one's a little.. Idunno. D:


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fiddlerpianist
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15 Jul 2009, 8:02 am

wigglyspider wrote:
^I totally just read that article a couple days ago. I ALMOST made a post about the "what's up?" "how's it going?" exchange. It just sounds weird to me. I gotta think that SOME NT people will agree that it sounds a little weird if the person doesn't give an answer before asking. Like, I always try to say "good, you?" or something like that. Also, the question/question exchange seems a little less strange for people who know each other, but what about if it's a stranger on the street? Can you still do that, or is answering the question a better way to answer?

I'm really not so bad at this stuff usually, but this one's a little.. Idunno. D:

Sometimes I have the wrong answer completely, as if they had asked me how I was but they didn't.

Me: Hi, how's it going?
Them: Just fine.
Me (as if he asked me how I was): Good, thanks.

I always feel awkward when I do this, yet no one ever seems to mind. Another one is when I say, "talk to you" instead of "talk to you later" when ending a phone conversation.


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Tantybi
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15 Jul 2009, 11:10 am

I kinda prefer the military's "Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening Sir/Mam" but I only seem to automatically think of it with only officers in uniform. I like it better though because it's not a question, you greeted them, acknowledged their presence and even wished them a good day.

What I don't get is like in facebook when you ask how someone's been doing (because you haven't seen them in 20 years or something) and they respond with...doing pretty good. I'm like no, I want to know if you are married, have kids, where you work, etc. I want a biography and I don't want to ask specific questions since I don't know anything about your life right now to the point where I don't know if any of those are bad questions to ask. Someone going through a divorce probably doesn't want to be asked if they are married. I also noticed if you haven't seen them in years, they really don't expect you to send messages back and forth about how y'all have been. Like that's only reserved for face to face meetings with that seriously uncomfortable moment of you knowing they are just trying to make you feel inadequate.



WardenWolf
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15 Jul 2009, 11:24 am

I prefer the term "bull****", but that's me.


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Willard
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15 Jul 2009, 12:24 pm

wigglyspider wrote:
^I totally just read that article a couple days ago. I ALMOST made a post about the "what's up?" "how's it going?" exchange. It just sounds weird to me. I gotta think that SOME NT people will agree that it sounds a little weird if the person doesn't give an answer before asking. Like, I always try to say "good, you?" or something like that.


I agree - I do think that some sort of actual answer is generally expected, just an abbreviated response, not a detailed explanation. My problem with that is that it's not natural for me to give a hypocritical "Great, thanks!" if in fact I'm having a particularly sh***y day. So I usually end up just shrugging and giving a noncommittal "eh", which always seems to throw people off a bit.

I dunno if it's just a Southern thing, but in this part of the US, I see a lot of NT males really showboat these types of encounters, with elaborate salesmanlike "Why, I am doing just wonderful this mornin', absolutely couldn't be better if I'd won the lottery" and so on. Always makes me think I'm about to hear an AMWAY pitch. :roll:



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16 Jul 2009, 3:54 am

fiddlerpianist wrote:
wigglyspider wrote:
^I totally just read that article a couple days ago. I ALMOST made a post about the "what's up?" "how's it going?" exchange. It just sounds weird to me. I gotta think that SOME NT people will agree that it sounds a little weird if the person doesn't give an answer before asking. Like, I always try to say "good, you?" or something like that. Also, the question/question exchange seems a little less strange for people who know each other, but what about if it's a stranger on the street? Can you still do that, or is answering the question a better way to answer?

I'm really not so bad at this stuff usually, but this one's a little.. Idunno. D:

Sometimes I have the wrong answer completely, as if they had asked me how I was but they didn't.

Me: Hi, how's it going?
Them: Just fine.
Me (as if he asked me how I was): Good, thanks.

I always feel awkward when I do this, yet no one ever seems to mind. Another one is when I say, "talk to you" instead of "talk to you later" when ending a phone conversation.
Hahaha, yeah, I give the wrong answer sometimes too, or I stumble over it while trying to find the right one. But I figure, we all know it's just a general greeting, so a general answer is always understood even if it doesn't match. XD;

And ending phone convos is a pain. Everyone I know has a different style of doing it. And like, some of them are "cool", as in.. like I don't even know. Sometimes it's like not even a real word. Like rapper slang and just SOUNDS and random sh*t like that. And my dorky little "bye!" just doesn't sound right when I say it after someone has given me a cool sendoff. *FAIL*


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wigglyspider
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16 Jul 2009, 4:03 am

Willard wrote:
wigglyspider wrote:
^I totally just read that article a couple days ago. I ALMOST made a post about the "what's up?" "how's it going?" exchange. It just sounds weird to me. I gotta think that SOME NT people will agree that it sounds a little weird if the person doesn't give an answer before asking. Like, I always try to say "good, you?" or something like that.


I agree - I do think that some sort of actual answer is generally expected, just an abbreviated response, not a detailed explanation. My problem with that is that it's not natural for me to give a hypocritical "Great, thanks!" if in fact I'm having a particularly sh***y day. So I usually end up just shrugging and giving a noncommittal "eh", which always seems to throw people off a bit.

I dunno if it's just a Southern thing, but in this part of the US, I see a lot of NT males really showboat these types of encounters, with elaborate salesmanlike "Why, I am doing just wonderful this mornin', absolutely couldn't be better if I'd won the lottery" and so on. Always makes me think I'm about to hear an AMWAY pitch. :roll:
You gotta smile when you "eh". I think it's when you act too serious that throws people off, because it's just a casual encounter. So even if my day sucks, I just try to smile helplessly, like I'm finding it kind of funny that I'm having such terrible luck. Downplaying and making fun of your own hardship seems to be a great strategy for most situations.


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Callista
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16 Jul 2009, 8:14 am

It's a great strategy for staying sane, too. Well, not downplaying it; but making fun of it. Sometimes, you just have so many little things happen to you that you feel like you must be living in a sitcom or something, so you can't help but provide the laugh track.

Dyspraxic people may agree with me: Sometimes, life just gets slapstick.


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16 Jul 2009, 8:47 am

The words may seem purposeless to us, because they often don't express the sentiments the words mean (ie. some say "how are you" without caring anyway), but it does have a purpose, namely to connect people.

It's funny how this is kind of similar to when NTs call our stimming "purposeless movements", while it to us certainly does have a purpose, namely to deal with stressing situations, to relax, to express a certain feeling etc.

Maybe smalltalk is to NTs what stimming is to people on the spectrum? :lol:



Crassus
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16 Jul 2009, 9:52 am

Social Lubricant. The only way to give the wrong phatic response is to imbue meaning into it. It is a conditioned response to a stimulus. If you are thinking about what it means, you are putting the wrong meaning in it. You make acknowledgement of other human beings you come in contact with as a way of signaling to them that you are paying attention to their presence as a mutual signaling of the trust we place in each other with our lives as we live out our society. I want to walk across this street that people drive cars on so I check to make sure I get acknowledgement from the driver of the car at the corner that they are not going to run me over when I step off the curb.

So we say How are you? Not because we specifically want to know how are you doing RIGHT NOW, but as a tacit acknowledgement that in a general sense we do care that they feel acknowledged. That's the way I understand it.



carturo222
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17 Jul 2009, 9:27 am

Your street metaphor makes me think of it this way: regular conversation is the traffic, and phatic words are the street signs and traffic lights that regulate how many and how fast words can go.



tenalpgnorw
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17 Jul 2009, 1:41 pm

I just read the "phatic" article and think it is completely asinine!

Perhaps I am anti-phatic. If you don't intend to convey any information or make a query for the purpose of gaining information, keep your big mouth shut.

We already have a word for the aforementioned social purposes; "hello". So if somebody passes me and says, "hey dood, how's it goin?" I say "hello".