What You're Doing Here Is Not Healthy, IMO.

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cc469
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12 Sep 2009, 11:08 pm

Probably has some point.
than again claiming it's not a hate thread does not make it not a hate thread although probably it ain't from what I have read ...

aspergers isn't the list of deficits in the dsm , anyone claiming to that is an ignorant dimwit who isn't worth anything typed back in response (unless theres a 3rd party you are competing to convince)
I think most people can see the problems with this notion .

aspie supramsicm is stupid since the vast majority of aspies have lots of issues on things as basic as behavior and the amount of time it is mentioned in it's current definition is proortional to the amount of problems a [edited for content by sinsboldly] who claims to have it causes although there are exceptions like savantism etc which aren't that rare in reality.

but I can bash "NT" in relation to my as all I want to and if it causes symphaty and is true and happens to many different people (including "NT"s) than it's me pointing out their problem.

anyway this might not be a hate post but probably a troll post to some degree so there you go.



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12 Sep 2009, 11:11 pm

I must admit I am guilty of this. I didn't even realize it until a dr pointed it out to me, either. AS supremacy is a form of reverse bigotry. Still, I find the community here to be helpful in other ways--lots of other ways! We are forming a distinct community here. It's extremely healthy to develop that, esp. when we have been deprived of that sense of belonging.


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cyberscan
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12 Sep 2009, 11:18 pm

This site has its good and bad points. One reason why I like to hang out here is to support and advise others. However, it is easy to adopt the victim mode when visiting any special interest site including but not limited to this one. I have learned fromother members here and have gain some understanding in how to deal with NT's.

As the original poster said, people on this site have become more bitter towards NT's. I think that is true for many here but by no means all. This is also true of most fraternal sites hwere people of certain interests, careers, political affiliation, sexuality, or any other catagory. It is human nature for some to develop an "us verses them mentality." This site is no exception.

I happen to think that it takes both NT and autistic people to make society work. People depend upon me to keep their technology devices working, to unlock their homes and cars when they lock themselves out, te design technology solutions to meet their needs, etc. I am severely autistic and depend upon NT's to help me get through many daily tasks. I also depend upon them to steer me clear of those whos intentions are not good. NT's need me, and I need them.


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nara44
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12 Sep 2009, 11:27 pm

cyberscan wrote:


I happen to think that it takes both NT and autistic people to make society work. People depend upon me to keep their technology devices working, to unlock their homes and cars when they lock themselves out, te design technology solutions to meet their needs, etc. I am severely autistic and depend upon NT's to help me get through many daily tasks. I also depend upon them to steer me clear of those whos intentions are not good. NT's need me, and I need them.


used to play that role for years until i realized,that like u wrote, i need NT in order to learn how to avoid bad NT's,
i need NT to fix the damage done to me by other NT
being an autistic,technical oriented like you, and logical to the extreme i decided that by eliminated the presence of NT from my life all together i'l get much better,much more economical and ecological and spiritual sound system for my life
and so i did



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13 Sep 2009, 12:07 am

Ok, maybe if I 'splain it this way.

I am a woman. I do not have an unfortunate genetic defect. Call me uppity, but I am not sorry that I am what I am. If you don't like it, that's your problem. I do not wish to trade what I have for what I lack. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I had it.

If I work really hard, I can think of a few uses for that other gender. Some men are nice. Some men are jerks. Talking to other women is healthy and helpful. Sometimes we talk about what a bunch of jerks men can be. More often, we talk about things that are over the men's heads and wouldn't interest them.

Setting us free, accepting us as different, allowing us decent jobs and a place in society other than as punching bags and burdens will not destroy the very fabric of society.

Need I go on?



princesseli
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13 Sep 2009, 2:40 am

I kinda see what your saying. This site is a mixed bag. On the positive note, its a place for aspies to gather and relate to one another and not feel so alone. I've made so many mistakes that has made me feel like the biggest idiot in the world but I can often come on here and see people who had similar experiances and feel the same way. In the normal world, its hard to find anyone to relate to and I think almost everyone needs someone to relate to. To find no one like you in the normal world can be or just to encounter person after person who just dosent get it can be rather disheartening. Understandably, most NT's wouldnt get some of the stuff we go through cause they havent gone through it. Through WP I met a couple good friends who get it.

But on the other hand you've spoke of some of the negatives this site has had about people dissing NTs and thinking aspies are superior. For me, that hasnt had an effect on me. The only negative thing that has occured is I use my aspieness way too much as a cripple and thats in part due to this site. I dont hate NT's on the whole, I just find some of them kinda ridiculous and annoying and I just find it difficult to navigate the world.

But realistically speaking, if we were to build a community with just people on the spectrum, I dont think it would survive. I do question how well a whole bunch of aspies could truely get along with each other. Im gonna bluntly say, I have no pride in being an aspie. And if there was a magical pill to make me NT, I'd take it as long it was safe. I dont care, I hate reading people wrong all the time, I hate not being able to make connections, I hate needing accomidations, I hate being misinterpeted all the time, I hate having no idea how to be part of a community, I hate not being able to convey the right facial expressions. And I honestly dont care what anyone thinks about it.



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13 Sep 2009, 2:46 am

Hi Emor, RE: What You're Doing Here Is Not Healthy, IMO

I hope my seeking info and help understanding Autism with my not being Neuro-Typical doesn't drag
anyone down to the point where I am, which is mainly a point of complex with the posting. The
neurological aspects of autism interest me because of the moderate correlation it has with tuberous
sclerosis, epilepsy, and frequent chromosomal identities, which may provide me with an empirical
verification weighted with the phenomenology that comes from the DSM-IV, but maybe the empirical
nosologic entities breeding more true than the easily unthoughtful importation of the diagnostic
entities of the DSM-IV.

I don't follow your logic when you challenge the statistical concept of a summary measure as in the
notion of Neuro-Typical, while the statistical construction and validity of the DSM-IV is based on
those very notions, which you appear to subscribe involving Asperger's Syndrome. The notion that a
hole has been dug here seems oblivious to the positive aspects of being successful with great distinction
on other statistical dimensions, with any difference from being typical, as being less than desirable,
as a conundrum. That also makes any notion of success anywhere as being self-contradictory.

Your view on employment selection also raises concerns involving the notion of merit decisions by
employers. The latest fads of Social Intelligence and Emotional Intelligence outweighing Intellectual
Intelligence and other skills is society begging for disasters; indeed, trillion dollar Ponzi schemes
under the formerly well-liked, popular, and friendly, but ignorant, regulators' noses is a great example
of the dangers of High-end Social Intelligence held high over having a detailed, technical talent.

How, and why, does being labeled by society as a magna cum laude graduate, make my concerns with
Asperger's Syndrome indicative of probable Aspie Supremacist attitude, while my skill concerns with
subjective and informal cultural customs as assigned failures, is a spiralling hole? I don't think
it is wise to aim for simple and typical mediocrity just to be a member of a so-so normal majority
that has contempt for anything valid and objective, but outside the current most popular version of
pseudo-reality.



peterd
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13 Sep 2009, 3:27 am

I'd like to think that aspies dealing intelligently with their disability can help make a better world.

After all, we're living proof that the neurotypical viewpoint, and its tendency to believe that one way of being is the god-given truth, isn't automatically true. And we can see what sort of world that's given rise to.

Of course, it may be a century or two more before the race gets that far, but without some sort of objective I'd lapse into despair.

Wouldn't you?



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13 Sep 2009, 5:37 am

Tadzio wrote:
The latest fads of Social Intelligence and Emotional Intelligence outweighing Intellectual Intelligence and other skills is society begging for disasters


I also meant to say that this is helpful for some people, but probably not all people.

People vary in temperaments and personality.

I just think it's a shame that some skills seem to be omitted from the social and emotional intelligence literature I've read.

What about reading the social atmosphere of an entire room for example?

Or reading and interpreting the messages conveyed by the media or entire community and then reporting back/helping that community?


Most of the social skills I've read about seem to be focussed on work-a-day one to one interactions or chatting in very small groups/cliques. I think, for some people, there's far more to it than that and the meaning runs much deeper. Maybe because the meaning and surrounding physical cues are processed more intensely.

Different people probably have different social roles to play and therefore will interact with others differently based on their social processing styles.

I also believe that some people, such as myself, seem to be better at macro-scale social processing than micro-scale social processing.


I don't really like the thought of bashing anyone whoever they are.

I was just making the point that in my opinion, some of the "social skills" I've read about seem limited.



Last edited by AmberEyes on 13 Sep 2009, 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

Emor
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13 Sep 2009, 6:09 am

Okay- I didn't expect some a large response... Well, didn't plan for one anyway.
The wide majority of these posts are rationalising their NT bashing.
No matter how much you try to justify it, in the end of the day it's a negative prejudice to the rest of the world around you and for that reason, I do not think swelling the prejudice is healthy by ranting and conversing about it here on WP.
For those who use NT as a synonym, for a lack of a better word, a jerk, this still looks bad seeing what NT initially means. However, ignoring that, I think you're put people into three boxes.
First box-Jerks/NT.
Second box-Non-jerkish NTs(some of you will probably have told yourselves they have traits of AS as well).
Third box- People with a diagnosis of a form of Autism.
Now, I don't think this is such a bad thing. While making a distinction between the second box and third box is well, frankly, rather pathetic, and also prejudice, it's not that damaging. However, I think what you're not noticing is that the distinction from the first and second box gradually... becomes rather insignificant.
This is what upsets me about this site because I think it encourages this lack of distinction and covers up with something far less severe. I'd also just like the time now to mention that I do in no way think Alex and all of WP's creators are to blame for the social linguistics of this site- which is what is causing such negative effects on some people.
Now those arguing that Aspie supremacism is a good thing, I just really don't want to go on about it. Any form of supremacism is narcissistic and if you can't face that then I'm sorry. But I really think that you should just let it go...
Making out NTs to lead a vain life... by any conventional standards, their lives are a lot more productive than one of that of an Aspie Supremacist who refuses to fit in(while the genuine Asperger's people desperately try to fit in) and often is unemployed or doesn't have that much of a great job anyway- all in search of a world which will except their way of thinking, and disregarding the fact that many, 'NTs' will actually LIKE this way of life. Having a different perception does NOT make you any better just because it's out of the norm, and if you think that you are truly pathetic, and I read your posts with contempt.
I'm sorry I've came to the point of throwing insults, but I honestly think anyone trying to defend a supremacism and an irrational prejudice doesn't really deserve any better- regardless of how a few people in High School might have been a jerk to them, etc.
Everything I made in my first point still stands.
Your alleged 'rationalisations' just show exactly what I'm talking about and don't persuade me and probably anyone else who isn't an Aspie Supremacist.
People who are offended by my post should not jump to the assumption that it's aimed at them- which is rather irritating that so many people have regardless of me specifying it several times.
-Emor.



Hmmmn
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13 Sep 2009, 7:00 am

Haven't read all you post (use the 'enter' button more please) but I agree up to a point. The point I don't agree past is that some of us are actually trying to help ourselves and others here. The lack of an ignore button on this board (???) means you literally can't read it without being negatively influenced but it also means this is an exercise in tolerance and forgiveness and letting people have their own opinions, things that are important in real life

I don't think it's unhealthy as such but there's definitely the potential for harm here but then again it's one of the few places on earth we mind find someone we can relate fully to and who can fully relate to us, which is probably quite important.



Emor
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13 Sep 2009, 7:04 am

Hmmmn wrote:
Haven't read all you post (use the 'enter' button more please) but I agree up to a point. The point I don't agree past is that some of us are actually trying to help ourselves and others here. The lack of an ignore button on this board (???) means you literally can't read it without being negatively influenced but it also means this is an exercise in tolerance and forgiveness and letting people have their own opinions, things that are important in real life

I don't think it's unhealthy as such but there's definitely the potential for harm here but then again it's one of the few places on earth we mind find someone we can relate fully to and who can fully relate to us, which is probably quite important.

I COMPLETELY agree. I am not saying that WrongPlanet is not beneficial- but I think that the amount of negative content here compared to the positive support on here is not a healthy ratio. I don't think it outweighs it as such, but it's still WAY too high.
Which is why I hope this thread changes some of the social linguistics here, for example, the endorsement of NT bashing and the skewed social status ladder.
-Emor.



Dianitapilla
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13 Sep 2009, 7:06 am

JEZUSSSSSSS!! ! :shameonyou: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! !

now go out there!! ! have /try to have a decent social life! don't ever join other autists! get back you NT friends! and don't waste anymore of your time in this forum!

:twisted:


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Emor
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13 Sep 2009, 7:09 am

Dianitapilla wrote:
JEZUSSSSSSS!! ! :shameonyou: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! !

now go out there!! ! have /try to have a decent social life! don't ever join other autists! get back you NT friends! and don't waste anymore of your time in this forum!

:twisted:

I'm not here to bash people on here- just to give people a warning I never got when signing up to WP.
I don't have a problem with Autistics, and at school has several friends on the spectrum.
-Emor.



bhetti
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13 Sep 2009, 8:15 am

Emor wrote:
I COMPLETELY agree. I am not saying that WrongPlanet is not beneficial- but I think that the amount of negative content here compared to the positive support on here is not a healthy ratio. I don't think it outweighs it as such, but it's still WAY too high.
you should visit the cult recovery board I frequent. this place is tame in comparison. but then, I don't read every post in every section, I'm only interested in picking apart the cult system in which I was entrapped, not dwelling on "good times" of which there were very few. does that make me a cult-bashing bag of negativity, or someone trying to sort out how I got here? I used to post 6-8 times a day there, now only a couple of times a week. people, even aspies, go through phases of life where they have to spend more time processing bad experiences to get past them (that was tongue in cheek in case it wasn't obvious).



Emor
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13 Sep 2009, 8:22 am

bhetti wrote:
Emor wrote:
I COMPLETELY agree. I am not saying that WrongPlanet is not beneficial- but I think that the amount of negative content here compared to the positive support on here is not a healthy ratio. I don't think it outweighs it as such, but it's still WAY too high.
you should visit the cult recovery board I frequent. this place is tame in comparison. but then, I don't read every post in every section, I'm only interested in picking apart the cult system in which I was entrapped, not dwelling on "good times" of which there were very few. does that make me a cult-bashing bag of negativity, or someone trying to sort out how I got here? I used to post 6-8 times a day there, now only a couple of times a week. people, even aspies, go through phases of life where they have to spend more time processing bad experiences to get past them (that was tongue in cheek in case it wasn't obvious).

I'm glad that you consider what I've specified a beneficial recovery process.
However, I beg to differ for others. I've seen people here with thousands of posts and I'd consider them still in this alleged 'recovery' process.
I also do think that this recovery process still is hard to justify considering it's dependent on bashing and discriminating against a certain group of people.
Any other type of supremacism(a good example would be racially based supremacism) would not be accepted as a recovery method, and even if it was, people would still say it's not a justified recovery process and unfair on those you condescend over to make you feel better. It's a very selfish recovery process imo.
I just think it's about time someone spoke out about this for all the NTs on this board who are probably sick of our crap, and the Aspies who don't bash NTs and are sick of them setting a bad example for us. OF COURSE NTs are going to bash us if all we do is bash them.
If you're going to bash on them- bash on them in private, not on a site which represents the Autism community as a whole for many people.
-Emor.