What You're Doing Here Is Not Healthy, IMO.

Page 6 of 8 [ 123 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

13 Sep 2009, 9:40 am

Emor wrote:
Hmmmn wrote:
This might interest you Emor, and anyone else who's wondering why we might do this. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt107421.html

The primary purpose of my thread is too give those joining a warning I never received.
I don't really see however how that post justifies an irrational hatred to a group of people. If anything it'd appear that it's saying that one should be more cautious of excuses for behaviour one claims to be due to a disorder...
-Emor.


ah! now I understand you Emor. You consider our animosity to be irrational! This means that you have never had the issues of discrimination and rejection from that society you embrace. I am glad you have found ease and comfort and acceptance. Perhaps, if you weren't so Aspie, you could have a bit of theory of mind on how other people, that have not had your experience might react to that same society you espouse?

Real life gives no warnings, no G, PG, R or X ratings. Real life comes at you whether you are ready or not. WP is real life.

Merle


_________________
Alis volat propriis
State Motto of Oregon


Katie_WPG
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 7 Sep 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 492
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

13 Sep 2009, 9:44 am

Sometimes, you just have to take it for what it is. There are some rather bitter people on here.

Honestly, sometimes I just feel like *headdesk*ing at some of the remarks I've heard on here from people with AS, parents of children with AS, and spouses of people with "AS" alike (you know, the "my husband is a jerk, it must be AS!" type).

But I still find this forum somewhat useful...

I will admit, when I was in late middle school/early high school, I realize now that I probably pushed away a few people that were trying to be honestly friendly. I believed that they were out to "get" me, or "humiliate" me. This was before I even knew what "Asperger's" was. It's one of the reasons why I'm grateful that I was never officially diagnosed as a minor. It would have been a source of self-defeatism that would have extended far beyond age 16/17. I didn't start viewing this site until I had fully gotten over that "trust nobody" phase.

Some people are still stuck in that phase.



Emor
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 464

13 Sep 2009, 9:57 am

sinsboldly wrote:
Emor wrote:
Hmmmn wrote:
This might interest you Emor, and anyone else who's wondering why we might do this. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt107421.html

The primary purpose of my thread is too give those joining a warning I never received.
I don't really see however how that post justifies an irrational hatred to a group of people. If anything it'd appear that it's saying that one should be more cautious of excuses for behaviour one claims to be due to a disorder...
-Emor.


ah! now I understand you Emor. You consider our animosity to be irrational! This means that you have never had the issues of discrimination and rejection from that society you embrace. I am glad you have found ease and comfort and acceptance. Perhaps, if you weren't so Aspie, you could have a bit of theory of mind on how other people, that have not had your experience might react to that same society you espouse?

Real life gives no warnings, no G, PG, R or X ratings. Real life comes at you whether you are ready or not. WP is real life.

Merle

So if someone who was black murdered your son or something you'd rationalise you having a prejudice against black people under the basis that ONE of them did something bad?
You know, when I made this post I expected some denial.
What I never would have expected was people trying to rationalise NT hatred and Aspie Supremacy.
People used to say that WrongPlanet was a hate site- to an extent I agreed, but I didn't think it was pure hatred, and I didn't think those who did hate on NTs meant it deep down.
But now I've seen it. A WP moderator. Trying to rationalise hatred towards neurotypicals.
People really are right. This IS a hate site. All you guys do is go on about how much NTs suck!
Y'know, I knew there was a problem.
This thread has just made it clear how severe the problem is.
You guys are honestly crazy. You're putting LITERALLY putting 99% of the population in a box and labelling the box as, 'Jerks' based on just a few people!
The very fact people who do this are given authority on this site is insane. I would have thought a site where people are subject to so much prejudice would be the last place where you'd find a major prejudice problem.
But nope- this site is worse the the prejudice most Aspies are subjected too.
IMO, you should all be ashamed. You're all a disgrace to the Autism community who wants to conform to social standards but has genuine problems doing so(rather than just not conforming because they're stupid and NT) and who some of their best friends are NT.
All I can say is thank god I noticed when I did. Some of you really do think every single NT is out to get you. And that's incredibly sad and I really do hope you guys notice that you're only thinking of a few NTs.
And yes, I stand by NT hatred being irrational.
I also stand by racism being irrational, sexism being irrational, etc.
Any form of prejudice is irrational.
And it's very sad and disturbing that some people here can not see that.
-Emor.



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 103,380
Location: Canada in person, Germany in spirit

13 Sep 2009, 10:32 am

I also don't agree with the NT bashing. Sure some of the NTs that I've known in the past have made up derogatory lies about my intelligence and looks in the past. I've also been really good friends with some really decent people who happen to be NTs for the past three years, as well. I associate with the good ones, and ignore the bad ones, and I don't make a big deal about them, by painting them all with one brush.


_________________
Augustus Gloop The Plump, Little Schlager

Kanye West 2024

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26&start=645


granatelli
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 308

13 Sep 2009, 10:54 am

Emor. I get what you're trying to say. I think most of the people that post here are pretty open minded and truely want to live a better life and get along with others so that they can live a productive life that has as little stress as possible. But there is a certaint percentage that does fit into the catagory you've discribed. Very "us vs them" mentality.

I agree with you, it's unhealthy and unproductive. It's not uncommon for minority groups to feel that way. I think it gives them comfort to line up in a circle and pat each other on the back and tell each other how much better they are than anyone else and how everyone else is out to get them. But it doesn't change anything or actually help them in any way. In fact, I agree, it can be harmful because it creates an even larger gulf between "us & them". So not only do they shun the NT "jerks" but they've also pushed away the NT's who are calm, caring and open minded. That cannot be healthy in any way.

BTW. I'm an NT w/an AS spouse. This site has been very helpful and I have gotten some very good, honest advise from some of the posters here. I've run across a few AS militants as well but most people have been pretty helpful. You know, it's that old "a few bad apples can ruin the whole barrel" thing.



devey
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 146
Location: England

13 Sep 2009, 11:11 am

Complaining about experiences of being misunderstood and mistreated by NTs is not the same as generalising and hating NTs. Sometimes people need to vent.

But I'm not denying there are some here who make these generalisng statements. i don't know these people personally and I don't know what experiences they have been through so I try not to be judgemental. There are some here who I feel are overly pessimitic and defeatist in their attitudes towards wider society. I have seen people say they don't need friends and are okay with isolating themselves. I don't think this is a healthy attitude. I think they need to put more trust into society and at least motivate themselves to adapt better.

However there are also those who cannot escape bad social situations at the moment such as bullying at school. it is hardly surprising that some people have poor attitudes on society when much of their life experience with life (people at school only have their experiences at of school as a marker for their opinions of society as a whole) has been detrimental. I speak from experience here. I took me a lot of self reflection for me to escape from this kind of attitude.



Emor
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 464

13 Sep 2009, 11:17 am

I do understand why people will bash NTs, I just think denying that they are and thinking it's okay is insane.
I posted my thread for that and other reasons.
-Emor.



devey
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 146
Location: England

13 Sep 2009, 11:22 am

I'm not trying to defend them. I'm just saying thats why they do it. Thats why its important to have people here who can encourge them to improve their attitude through good advice.



Emor
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 464

13 Sep 2009, 11:26 am

devey wrote:
I'm not trying to defend them. I'm just saying thats why they do it. Thats why its important to have people here who can encourge them to improve their attitude through good advice.

...But we don't?
If someone sees a hate post, VERY few people will say, 'Hey, not all NTs are like that'- you're more likely to get a response like, 'I know right! NTs can be so freaking irrational!' or something like that.
The people who don't encourage NT bashing are either over-whelmed by so many people doing it or simply don't try to do anything about it.
Receiving good advice might make you think better of Aspies- not NTs.
-Emor.



Hmmmn
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 333
Location: going

13 Sep 2009, 11:40 am

Emor wrote:
Hmmmn wrote:
This might interest you Emor, and anyone else who's wondering why we might do this. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt107421.html

The primary purpose of my thread is too give those joining a warning I never received.
I don't really see however how that post justifies an irrational hatred to a group of people. If anything it'd appear that it's saying that one should be more cautious of excuses for behaviour one claims to be due to a disorder...
-Emor.


Yeah that's what I meant. I wasn't trying to justify anyones behaviour but I can understand it for most of the time maybe not naturally but if I put enough thought into it I usually can.

You've got to try and package your message in such a way that others who don't already feel the same as you especially with an emotive subject such as this one. You have to find ways that the people your arguing against can relate to what you're saying, not easy but possible.

The fact you've seemingly got into a bit of rough water here (haven't had time to read the whole thread) is in my opinion down to black & white thinking on both sides, it really helps to keep in mind that we're prone to doing that. Try and accept and encourage others to accept that shades of grey are much more predominant in life than black or white which are in fact rare.

Don't give up though. Good luck :thumleft:



MONKEY
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Jan 2009
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,896
Location: Stoke, England (sometimes :P)

13 Sep 2009, 11:50 am

Emor wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Emor wrote:
Hmmmn wrote:
This might interest you Emor, and anyone else who's wondering why we might do this. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt107421.html

The primary purpose of my thread is too give those joining a warning I never received.
I don't really see however how that post justifies an irrational hatred to a group of people. If anything it'd appear that it's saying that one should be more cautious of excuses for behaviour one claims to be due to a disorder...
-Emor.


ah! now I understand you Emor. You consider our animosity to be irrational! This means that you have never had the issues of discrimination and rejection from that society you embrace. I am glad you have found ease and comfort and acceptance. Perhaps, if you weren't so Aspie, you could have a bit of theory of mind on how other people, that have not had your experience might react to that same society you espouse?

Real life gives no warnings, no G, PG, R or X ratings. Real life comes at you whether you are ready or not. WP is real life.

Merle

So if someone who was black murdered your son or something you'd rationalise you having a prejudice against black people under the basis that ONE of them did something bad?
You know, when I made this post I expected some denial.
What I never would have expected was people trying to rationalise NT hatred and Aspie Supremacy.
People used to say that WrongPlanet was a hate site- to an extent I agreed, but I didn't think it was pure hatred, and I didn't think those who did hate on NTs meant it deep down.
But now I've seen it. A WP moderator. Trying to rationalise hatred towards neurotypicals.
People really are right. This IS a hate site. All you guys do is go on about how much NTs suck!
Y'know, I knew there was a problem.
This thread has just made it clear how severe the problem is.
You guys are honestly crazy. You're putting LITERALLY putting 99% of the population in a box and labelling the box as, 'Jerks' based on just a few people!
The very fact people who do this are given authority on this site is insane. I would have thought a site where people are subject to so much prejudice would be the last place where you'd find a major prejudice problem.
But nope- this site is worse the the prejudice most Aspies are subjected too.
IMO, you should all be ashamed. You're all a disgrace to the Autism community who wants to conform to social standards but has genuine problems doing so(rather than just not conforming because they're stupid and NT) and who some of their best friends are NT.
All I can say is thank god I noticed when I did. Some of you really do think every single NT is out to get you. And that's incredibly sad and I really do hope you guys notice that you're only thinking of a few NTs.
And yes, I stand by NT hatred being irrational.
I also stand by racism being irrational, sexism being irrational, etc.
Any form of prejudice is irrational.
And it's very sad and disturbing that some people here can not see that.
-Emor.


:hail: :hail: :hail:


_________________
What film do atheists watch on Christmas?
Coincidence on 34th street.


devey
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 146
Location: England

13 Sep 2009, 11:58 am

Emor wrote:
devey wrote:
I'm not trying to defend them. I'm just saying thats why they do it. Thats why its important to have people here who can encourge them to improve their attitude through good advice.

...But we don't?
If someone sees a hate post, VERY few people will say, 'Hey, not all NTs are like that'- you're more likely to get a response like, 'I know right! NTs can be so freaking irrational!' or something like that.
The people who don't encourage NT bashing are either over-whelmed by so many people doing it or simply don't try to do anything about it.
Receiving good advice might make you think better of Aspies- not NTs.
-Emor.

I think you have pointed out the most fundamental issue here, but there is more to giving advice than simply telling them to stop hating NTs. Many here can't give good good advice on coping with society because they simply don't know how to. I see very few people here who have learned to adapt well enough to give this advice. it would be good to see a few more NTs here to be honest.
I don't really agree with your last point. If the person can follow the advice successfully they would cope with other NTs better.

Feel free to stick around by the way. Its quite interesting having you here.



Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

13 Sep 2009, 12:07 pm

I think the helpful advice threads outnumber the NT bashing threads by a pretty large margin. Also, within any given NT bashing thread, there will always be a healthy number of balance posts trying to stop the bashing.

There are some threads that sound to me more like vexation than bashing. Threads that essentially say "why do NT people do this? This makes no sense to me." That may sound like a bash on the surface but I think that in nearly all those threads, it is an honest request for an explanation. For every one post that answers "they do it because they are stupid and evil" there are a dozen posts that give thoughtful and not mean spirited answers.

A lot of people have pointed out the risk of dwelling on one's own victimization. That is a risk. But it's a risk that doesn't go away if you turn off the computer. Somebody who is stewing in misery is going to do that anyway. Might as well do it in a place where several posts actually will give helpful advice and share resources.

I'm NT with an AS daughter so I'm sensitive to a bash. But honestly I haven't really felt personally bashed here. I get it far worse off line because of people like Michael Savage and Dennis Leary who see the autism spectrum as a fiction in most cases and accuse me of being a bad parent because the fiction of AS (according to them) is just what happens when bad parents do a terrible job. That- and the fallout from that- actually hurts me. Even if there were 1,000 posts on here all saying "NTs are stupid and irrational" it would not hurt me a fraction as much as Dennis Leary and Michael Savage convincing the public that I and other parents are simply failures because we took perfectly neurologically typical babies and turned them into children who have terrible trouble coping with the world and communicating. That hurts. And this site is one of the few places where truly nobody says that.



Last edited by Janissy on 13 Sep 2009, 12:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Emor
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 464

13 Sep 2009, 12:07 pm

I agree that in some circumstances the advice will help one integrate and socialise with NTs on a better level- however, the context this advice can be given in can often be in a negative manner, pointing out how it's stupid or irrational.
I also think it'd be nice to have more more NTs here.
I'm going to try and keep this thread active by replying to the posts other users make in it but I probably won't bring my rants and ravings(frankly all I really plan to do here is to persuade people we have a big problem which is effecting a significant amount of people) to other people's threads. It's good to know that people are finding this thread interesting as opposed to what I apprehended could be(and admittedly for some, has been) perceived as intrusive.
-Emor.



Emor
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 464

13 Sep 2009, 12:17 pm

Janissy wrote:
I think the helpful advice threads outnumber the NT bashing threads by a pretty large margin. Also, within any given NT bashing thread, there will always be a healthy number of balance posts trying to stop the bashing.

There are some threads that sound to me more like vexation than bashing. Threads that essentially say "why do NT people do this? This makes no sense to me." That may sound like a bash on the surface but I think that in nearly all those threads, it is an honest request for an explanation. For every one post that answers "they do it because they are stupid and evil" there are a dozen posts that give thoughtful and not mean spirited answers.

A lot of people have pointed out the risk of dwelling on one's own victimization. That is a risk. But it's a risk that doesn't go away if you turn off the computer. Somebody who is stewing in misery is going to do that anyway. Might as well do it in a place where several posts actually will give helpful advice and share resources.

I'm NT with an AS daughter so I'm sensitive to a bash. But honestly I haven't really felt personally bashed here. I get it far worse off line because of people like Michael Savage and Dennis Leary who see the autism spectrum as a fiction in most cases and accuse me of being a bad parent because the fiction of AS (according to them) is just what happens when bad parents do a terrible job. That- and the fallout from that- actually hurts me. Even if there were 1,000 posts on here all saying "NTs are stupid and irrational" it would not hurt me a fraction as much as Dennis Leary and Michael Savahe convincing the public that I and other parents are simply failures because we took perfectly neurologically typical babies and turned them into children who have terrible trouble coping with the world and communicating. That hurts. And this site is one of the few places where truly nobody says that.

Maybe I have a bias and my perception has been altered, but I honestly think it's a lot worse than you've specified in your post.
I also think that these threads asking why NTs do such and such a thing only really do rant for the most part about it. Most of the time the poster just goes on about how annoying it is, etc. and doesn't actually really clarify what his question is.
Again, I completely acknowledge WP as a positive beneficial site for some, but for others, they do conform to the NT hating trend and I HONESTLY think a lot of people have developed Acquired Situational Narcism from places like this site and it's really quite a serious thing.
I genuinely think that if the social linguistics here don't change more and more members joining will be subject to the endorsement of NT hatred and Asperger's Supremacism- and of course, we will drive away those NT looking for support with a family member who has an ASD or such.
-Emor.



melissa17b
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 420
Location: A long way from home, wherever home is

13 Sep 2009, 12:17 pm

devey wrote:
... Many here can't give good good advice on coping with society because they simply don't know how to. I see very few people here who have learned to adapt well enough to give this advice. it would be good to see a few more NTs here to be honest.


Some of us have responded to decades of confusion and growing up with constant bullying by becoming determined to overcome our difficulties, limitations, disabilities, whatevers, and build mutually rewarding relationships with people different from us (which is most everybody), accepting that we will make mistakes and endure emotional pain along the way. Furthermore, some of us manage to succeed, and come to forums such as this to share experiences and offer advice (solicited, of course) to people who are interested in our perspectives. We in turn learn from the experiences of others, making us all stronger. WP is a support site, and a superb one at that. If, as the OP indicates, you are not "connecting" to many others, try a different forum - with 30,000 members and 2 million posts, we have something for all tastes here.