What You're Doing Here Is Not Healthy, IMO.

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desmonami
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13 Sep 2009, 12:34 pm

I am with Emor. Thats how i felt when i first joined this site, the us vs them mentality being very obvious. But so many people seemed to join in the NT disdain. i feel for someone who is easily influenced it would certainly have a detrimental effect.



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13 Sep 2009, 12:58 pm

Emor wrote:
Again, I completely acknowledge WP as a positive beneficial site for some, but for others, they do conform to the NT hating trend and I HONESTLY think a lot of people have developed Acquired Situational Narcism from places like this site and it's really quite a serious thing.


Emor,
I question whether or not people who come here and follow the victim path have acquired that tendency here, or just found a sub-culture within a community that agrees with them.

I wonder if your legitimate concern for other's health and well-being might not in large part be due to your own temporary, transient development of said narcissism.

As has been pointed out, for individuals who have some kind of 'core' mental wellness, such as yourself, this rejection of the group they perceived as causing them great harm is a phase, temporary, and necessary to the re-establishment of a healthy balance.

What gets said here is NOTHING compared to the diatribe a lesbian separtist can unload on your head. Most of what you're reading is purely pain driven without decades of well developed socio-economic, religious, and anti-misogynist theory to deal with.

Rejoice that you have caught yourself and stopped going down that self-limiting path, and recognize that many others will tread the same path. Stay and help be a voice of reason and balance, respecting other's pain and suffering and helping them to grow.

It's a lot more difficult to do than just shooting from the sidelines and taking off. Much harder to create than destroy.

It's becoming a hackneyed phrase, but "Be the change you want to see."

I'm frankly quite impressed by your insight at the age of 14. Now build on it and learn from the exercise of sticking it out here. Turn you attention towards the voices of reason and wisdom that are well-represented here. Support us, join us, don't cut and run.

Emor wrote:
I genuinely think that if the social linguistics here don't change more and more members joining will be subject to the endorsement of NT hatred and Asperger's Supremacism- and of course, we will drive away those NT looking for support with a family member who has an ASD or such.
-Emor.


This is a legitimate concern. And as Janissy said, NTs may well be more hurt by the dismissal of the difference that a rant from someone who is experiencing the pain of it.
Suffering is a big part of our experience, and if someone really wants to learn about how it is with us, they need to hear the impact it has, hatred, self-loathing, disrespect, courage, intelligence, heartbreak... all of it.

I've been through racial sensitivity workshops and it's not pleasant to sit and hear what others are feeling about your 'priviledged group' (in this case middle-class white European-Americans). Some indeed can't bear it and are driven away.

I challenge you to stay and become a true gentle warrior, learning how to say the turning word.



devey
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13 Sep 2009, 1:00 pm

melissa17b wrote:
devey wrote:
... Many here can't give good good advice on coping with society because they simply don't know how to. I see very few people here who have learned to adapt well enough to give this advice. it would be good to see a few more NTs here to be honest.


Some of us have responded to decades of confusion and growing up with constant bullying by becoming determined to overcome our difficulties, limitations, disabilities, whatevers, and build mutually rewarding relationships with people different from us (which is most everybody), accepting that we will make mistakes and endure emotional pain along the way. Furthermore, some of us manage to succeed, and come to forums such as this to share experiences and offer advice (solicited, of course) to people who are interested in our perspectives. We in turn learn from the experiences of others, making us all stronger. WP is a support site, and a superb one at that. If, as the OP indicates, you are not "connecting" to many others, try a different forum - with 30,000 members and 2 million posts, we have something for all tastes here.

My post wasn't an attack, just an observation. I happen to be one of the people you describe in the first part of your post but I feel we need a bigger voice because there are always going to be many here who haven't yet overcome such difficulties and come here for advice.



Emor
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13 Sep 2009, 1:23 pm

DonkeyBuster wrote:
Emor wrote:
Again, I completely acknowledge WP as a positive beneficial site for some, but for others, they do conform to the NT hating trend and I HONESTLY think a lot of people have developed Acquired Situational Narcism from places like this site and it's really quite a serious thing.


Emor,
I question whether or not people who come here and follow the victim path have acquired that tendency here, or just found a sub-culture within a community that agrees with them.

I wonder if your legitimate concern for other's health and well-being might not in large part be due to your own temporary, transient development of said narcissism.

As has been pointed out, for individuals who have some kind of 'core' mental wellness, such as yourself, this rejection of the group they perceived as causing them great harm is a phase, temporary, and necessary to the re-establishment of a healthy balance.

What gets said here is NOTHING compared to the diatribe a lesbian separtist can unload on your head. Most of what you're reading is purely pain driven without decades of well developed socio-economic, religious, and anti-misogynist theory to deal with.

Rejoice that you have caught yourself and stopped going down that self-limiting path, and recognize that many others will tread the same path. Stay and help be a voice of reason and balance, respecting other's pain and suffering and helping them to grow.

It's a lot more difficult to do than just shooting from the sidelines and taking off. Much harder to create than destroy.

It's becoming a hackneyed phrase, but "Be the change you want to see."

I'm frankly quite impressed by your insight at the age of 14. Now build on it and learn from the exercise of sticking it out here. Turn you attention towards the voices of reason and wisdom that are well-represented here. Support us, join us, don't cut and run.

Emor wrote:
I genuinely think that if the social linguistics here don't change more and more members joining will be subject to the endorsement of NT hatred and Asperger's Supremacism- and of course, we will drive away those NT looking for support with a family member who has an ASD or such.
-Emor.


This is a legitimate concern. And as Janissy said, NTs may well be more hurt by the dismissal of the difference that a rant from someone who is experiencing the pain of it.
Suffering is a big part of our experience, and if someone really wants to learn about how it is with us, they need to hear the impact it has, hatred, self-loathing, disrespect, courage, intelligence, heartbreak... all of it.

I've been through racial sensitivity workshops and it's not pleasant to sit and hear what others are feeling about your 'priviledged group' (in this case middle-class white European-Americans). Some indeed can't bear it and are driven away.

I challenge you to stay and become a true gentle warrior, learning how to say the turning word.

I do think during my stay on WP I DID develop ASN. However, I think the realisation of this has made me have a more realistic perception on my self-importance, and I'd like to say that I now have a healthy perception of my self. I'd also like to say that while on WP I also self-loathed quite a lot.
Just because it's 'nothing' compared to other things doesn't mean it's right. Compared to murder stealing's 'nothing'- it doesn't make it right nor does it not make it a serious issue.
I'm posting this thread. I'm not doing anything else. I've given you all a warning and chance to stop NT-bashing and you guys who want to remain on WP to change the social linguistics. I don't want to stay here because it's damaging to me and I don't want to be dragged back into the trend of hating NTs. Anyone who does want to stay here but sports the same views as me- feel free to make a stand.
From there on I think you're trying to entertain my supposed Narcism which frankly I find rather offensive and will not humour your little experiment to see if I will take it.
Yes, I've always been a very paranoid person.
-Emor.



sinsboldly
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13 Sep 2009, 1:25 pm

Emor wrote:
Hmmmn wrote:
This might interest you Emor, and anyone else who's wondering why we might do this. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt107421.html

The primary purpose of my thread is too give those joining a warning I never received.
I don't really see however how that post justifies an irrational hatred to a group of people. If anything it'd appear that it's saying that one should be more cautious of excuses for behaviour one claims to be due to a disorder...
-Emor.


ah! now I understand you Emor. You consider our animosity to be irrational! This means that you have never had the issues of discrimination and rejection from that society you embrace. I am glad you have found ease and comfort and acceptance. Perhaps, if you weren't so Aspie, you could have a bit of theory of mind on how other people, that have not had your experience might react to that same society you espouse?

Real life gives no warnings, no G, PG, R or X ratings. Real life comes at you whether you are ready or not. WP is real life.

Merle


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Emor
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13 Sep 2009, 1:28 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
Emor wrote:
Hmmmn wrote:
This might interest you Emor, and anyone else who's wondering why we might do this. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt107421.html

The primary purpose of my thread is too give those joining a warning I never received.
I don't really see however how that post justifies an irrational hatred to a group of people. If anything it'd appear that it's saying that one should be more cautious of excuses for behaviour one claims to be due to a disorder...
-Emor.


ah! now I understand you Emor. You consider our animosity to be irrational! This means that you have never had the issues of discrimination and rejection from that society you embrace. I am glad you have found ease and comfort and acceptance. Perhaps, if you weren't so Aspie, you could have a bit of theory of mind on how other people, that have not had your experience might react to that same society you espouse?

Real life gives no warnings, no G, PG, R or X ratings. Real life comes at you whether you are ready or not. WP is real life.

Merle

I think you've just repeated yourself.
-Emor.



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13 Sep 2009, 1:36 pm

Emor wrote:
DonkeyBuster wrote:
I challenge you to stay and become a true gentle warrior, learning how to say the turning word.


I do think during my stay on WP I DID develop ASN. However, I think the realisation of this has made me have a more realistic perception on my self-importance, and I'd like to say that I now have a healthy perception of my self. I'd also like to say that while on WP I also self-loathed quite a lot.
Just because it's 'nothing' compared to other things doesn't mean it's right. Compared to murder stealing's 'nothing'- it doesn't make it right nor does it not make it a serious issue.
I'm posting this thread. I'm not doing anything else. I've given you all a warning and chance to stop NT-bashing and you guys who want to remain on WP to change the social linguistics. I don't want to stay here because it's damaging to me and I don't want to be dragged back into the trend of hating NTs. Anyone who does want to stay here but sports the same views as me- feel free to make a stand.
From there on I think you're trying to entertain my supposed Narcism which frankly I find rather offensive and will not humour your little experiment to see if I will take it.
Yes, I've always been a very paranoid person.
-Emor.


You think being a gentle warrior plays to a narcissist? Which I hadn't considered you, but now I will have to re-think my previous evaluation... perhaps you have moved beyond narcissism to megalomania...

Nah. You're still just a person afraid of his/her own shadow.

But you're no Peter Pan...



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13 Sep 2009, 1:39 pm

I haven't read anything in this thread other than the title, but I'm here because I can't interact with people in person (unless I've been around them for a very long time, and since school is over with, I'm socially isolated).

I get to talk to people.



Emor
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13 Sep 2009, 1:43 pm

DonkeyBuster wrote:
Emor wrote:
DonkeyBuster wrote:
I challenge you to stay and become a true gentle warrior, learning how to say the turning word.


I do think during my stay on WP I DID develop ASN. However, I think the realisation of this has made me have a more realistic perception on my self-importance, and I'd like to say that I now have a healthy perception of my self. I'd also like to say that while on WP I also self-loathed quite a lot.
Just because it's 'nothing' compared to other things doesn't mean it's right. Compared to murder stealing's 'nothing'- it doesn't make it right nor does it not make it a serious issue.
I'm posting this thread. I'm not doing anything else. I've given you all a warning and chance to stop NT-bashing and you guys who want to remain on WP to change the social linguistics. I don't want to stay here because it's damaging to me and I don't want to be dragged back into the trend of hating NTs. Anyone who does want to stay here but sports the same views as me- feel free to make a stand.
From there on I think you're trying to entertain my supposed Narcism which frankly I find rather offensive and will not humour your little experiment to see if I will take it.
Yes, I've always been a very paranoid person.
-Emor.


You think being a gentle warrior plays to a narcissist? Which I hadn't considered you, but now I will have to re-think my previous evaluation... perhaps you have moved beyond narcissism to megalomania...

Nah. You're still just a person afraid of his/her own shadow.

But you're no Peter Pan...

Meh, whatever. Clearly you're trying to annoy me.
I don't see how I come across as a megalomaniac but clearly you think I have some sort of other disorder in addition to my AS.
It's rather weird that your throwing random(but serious) disorders at me as an insult on a support site for people with another serious disorder.
But yeah, I probably won't reply to any more of your posts. You seem to be manipulating me or something... Frankly I'm not sure what you're trying to do but meh.
-Emor.



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13 Sep 2009, 1:53 pm

sinsboldly wrote:

Quote:
ah! now I understand you Emor. You consider our animosity to be irrational! This means that you have never had the issues of discrimination and rejection from that society you embrace. I am glad you have found ease and comfort and acceptance. Perhaps, if you weren't so Aspie, you could have a bit of theory of mind on how other people, that have not had your experience might react to that same society you espouse?


DonkeyBuster wrote:

Quote:
You think being a gentle warrior plays to a narcissist? Which I hadn't considered you, but now I will have to re-think my previous evaluation... perhaps you have moved beyond narcissism to megalomania...

Nah. You're still just a person afraid of his/her own shadow.

But you're no Peter Pan..


I am astonished that AS folks in their fifties would write such snide comments to a 14 year old. Whatever nastiness you suffered at the hands of NTs, you seem quite capable of matching it.



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13 Sep 2009, 2:13 pm

Emor wrote:
DonkeyBuster wrote:
But you're no Peter Pan...

Meh, whatever. Clearly you're trying to annoy me.
I don't see how I come across as a megalomaniac but clearly you think I have some sort of other disorder in addition to my AS.
It's rather weird that your throwing random(but serious) disorders at me as an insult on a support site for people with another serious disorder.
But yeah, I probably won't reply to any more of your posts. You seem to be manipulating me or something... Frankly I'm not sure what you're trying to do but meh.
-Emor.


Peter Pan is the only character I know of that is able to lose his shadow... sorry that didn't make sense to you, that wasn't my intention.

My point being that whether you are hating yourself, NTs, or WP it's still hatred, the shadow side of yourself and will accompany you throughout your days you shine the light of attention and intelligence on it.

Hatred is not overcome by hatred.
Hatred is only defeated by love.
This law is eternal and true.
Buddha

I have not thrown random but serious disorders at you. I acknowledged your own stated experience with narcissism. As far as the megalomania... your grandiose pronouncement of your view as supreme and infallible, as if you were some kind of prescient god rather than a 14 YO human, is a common example of what might be considered a tendency for grandiose or overstated performances. It was not meant as assigning clinical Dx, but rather a comment on your OP and subsequent defense.

You are engaging in the very behavior you claim to despise... the lumping together of a group of people (WP) so that you can feel superior to them and dismiss them.

I appreciate that you might not be strong enough to resist the temptation to think of yourself as a victim if you hang around with others who practice that "path", but to accuse me of trying to manipulate you by asking you to stay and be a voice of reason is patently absurd. An open invitation is not manipulation, complimenting you on qualities I genuinely respect is not manipulation. It is a genuine and sincere request that you stay on the boards and play to your highest good, rather than leave.

But again, if you feel you are not strong enough to resist self-victimization, then leaving would indeed be the wisest course of action for you.



granatelli
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13 Sep 2009, 2:39 pm

Funny, I didn't find hatred anywhere in Emor's posts. He was merely pointing out what he perceives as a unhealthy and unproductive way of looking at the world that seems to permeate many of the threads on this forum. That's his opinion and he's entitled to it. I happen to agree with much of what he has posted. It doesn't do anyone any good to huddle in the corner with a bunch of like minded individuals who all pat themselves on the back saying "We're right, they're wrong and boy isn't the world unfair? " That type of thinking might make you feel good for a moment but it isn't going to do much to change your lot in life.


DonkeyBuster wrote:
Peter Pan is the only character I know of that is able to lose his shadow... sorry that didn't make sense to you, that wasn't my intention.

My point being that whether you are hating yourself, NTs, or WP it's still hatred, the shadow side of yourself and will accompany you throughout your days you shine the light of attention and intelligence on it.

Hatred is not overcome by hatred.
Hatred is only defeated by love.
This law is eternal and true.
Buddha

I have not thrown random but serious disorders at you. I acknowledged your own stated experience with narcissism. As far as the megalomania... your grandiose pronouncement of your view as supreme and infallible, as if you were some kind of prescient god rather than a 14 YO human, is a common example of what might be considered a tendency for grandiose or overstated performances. It was not meant as assigning clinical Dx, but rather a comment on your OP and subsequent defense.

You are engaging in the very behavior you claim to despise... the lumping together of a group of people (WP) so that you can feel superior to them and dismiss them.

I appreciate that you might not be strong enough to resist the temptation to think of yourself as a victim if you hang around with others who practice that "path", but to accuse me of trying to manipulate you by asking you to stay and be a voice of reason is patently absurd. An open invitation is not manipulation, complimenting you on qualities I genuinely respect is not manipulation. It is a genuine and sincere request that you stay on the boards and play to your highest good, rather than leave.

But again, if you feel you are not strong enough to resist self-victimization, then leaving would indeed be the wisest course of action for you.



melissa17b
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13 Sep 2009, 2:43 pm

devey wrote:
melissa17b wrote:
devey wrote:
... Many here can't give good good advice on coping with society because they simply don't know how to. I see very few people here who have learned to adapt well enough to give this advice. it would be good to see a few more NTs here to be honest.


Some of us have responded to decades of confusion and growing up with constant bullying by becoming determined to overcome our difficulties, limitations, disabilities, whatevers, and build mutually rewarding relationships with people different from us (which is most everybody), accepting that we will make mistakes and endure emotional pain along the way. Furthermore, some of us manage to succeed, and come to forums such as this to share experiences and offer advice (solicited, of course) to people who are interested in our perspectives. We in turn learn from the experiences of others, making us all stronger. WP is a support site, and a superb one at that. If, as the OP indicates, you are not "connecting" to many others, try a different forum - with 30,000 members and 2 million posts, we have something for all tastes here.

My post wasn't an attack, just an observation. I happen to be one of the people you describe in the first part of your post but I feel we need a bigger voice because there are always going to be many here who haven't yet overcome such difficulties and come here for advice.


Sorry to leave the impression that you were making an attack - this was never intended. Your point is excellent - many people here are unable to offer constructive advice because they haven't yet worked things out themselves. My intent here was to point out that there are many people that do post constructive advice, so that readers of this thread that may not be aware of the wealth of insights provided by WP contributors may benefit from their efforts. It is realistic to expect that many more people will bring questions than answers; most support forums work that way.



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13 Sep 2009, 2:45 pm

wildgrape wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:

Quote:
ah! now I understand you Emor. You consider our animosity to be irrational! This means that you have never had the issues of discrimination and rejection from that society you embrace. I am glad you have found ease and comfort and acceptance. Perhaps, if you weren't so Aspie, you could have a bit of theory of mind on how other people, that have not had your experience might react to that same society you espouse?


DonkeyBuster wrote:

Quote:
You think being a gentle warrior plays to a narcissist? Which I hadn't considered you, but now I will have to re-think my previous evaluation... perhaps you have moved beyond narcissism to megalomania...

Nah. You're still just a person afraid of his/her own shadow.

But you're no Peter Pan..


I am astonished that AS folks in their fifties would write such snide comments to a 14 year old. Whatever nastiness you suffered at the hands of NTs, you seem quite capable of matching it.


His maturity with words, his ability to diagnose others with DSM IV v codes? His ability to want to discuss this with adults rather than actually confront the members that DO 'bash NTs' on this site makes it all very interesting.


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Last edited by sinsboldly on 13 Sep 2009, 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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13 Sep 2009, 2:45 pm

Did you, perchance, notice that NOBODY in this thread believes or defends Aspie supremacy? You have seen NO RATIONALIZATIONS in this thread, yet you continue to rant as though you have seen them. Look again. They’re not here. You came with a preconceived notion and are seeing what you expected to see.

Life is more complicated than you know.


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13 Sep 2009, 2:55 pm

DonkeyBuster wrote:
Hatred is not overcome by hatred.
Hatred is only defeated by love.
This law is eternal and true.
Buddha
this statement is untrue, except in the narrow application of managing your own attitude.