What You're Doing Here Is Not Healthy, IMO.

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bhetti
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13 Sep 2009, 2:57 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Bhetti, if you read my post you would realize I meant the ones I have known because those are the ones I mean when I type "NT". How would I possibly know all NTs so why would I be refering to them all? It would be impossible to know all of them, but the ones I have known are very much like a hate group and have some things in common with groups like the KKK. Very hostile and intolerant. Why would I express a dislike for them for no reason? If they were nice to me and wanted to see me survive and progress I wouldn't say anything negative about them, would I? Most people who vent negative feelings about them have been treated like crap by them. Some people get treated like crap JUST because they seem different and certain NTs think you are mentally deficient, thus, an easy target, so they take out their anger and frustrations on you because they think it's okay and no one will care. They are just abusive people, generally, and there are too many of those around here. For sure. It's perfectly normal to dislike this type of person, imo.They act much the same way groups like the KKK stereotype and take out their frustrations and failures on minorities.

was this post supposed to be directed at me? I'm confused.

Tahitiii
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13 Sep 2009, 3:01 pm

DonkeyBuster wrote:

Hatred is not overcome by hatred.
Hatred is only defeated by love.
This law is eternal and true.
~ Buddha

bhetti wrote:

this statement is untrue, except in the narrow application of managing your own attitude.

Actually, it's the only thing that's true.
Love doesn't always work, but hate never works. It only creates more problems.

sinsboldly
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13 Sep 2009, 3:07 pm

bhetti wrote:

DonkeyBuster wrote:

Hatred is not overcome by hatred.
Hatred is only defeated by love.
This law is eternal and true.
Buddha

this statement is untrue, except in the narrow application of managing your own attitude.

now, I know the corny-ness of this lyric (and at least it isn't "Muskrat Love" :roll:

) but I used this as my mantra when I made my ammends to my parents as a 9th step in my AA program.
My mother drew a circle that excluded me, so I took heart from this song (and later learned it was Zen precept) and it worked wonders for me and my mom. I got to bury her with the understanding that we were "OK", and that is no small potatoes!

He drew a circle that shut me out
He was afraid of what love was all about
Whenever I saw him he'd be there inside him
Locking his heart in a place to hide it
But oh love and I we knew just where to begin

Yes love and I started a circle to spin
Oh love and I
We drew a circle, beautiful circle
a wonderful circle that took him in

Composer:Toni Tennille

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bhetti
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13 Sep 2009, 3:10 pm

Emor wrote:

bhetti wrote:

Emor wrote:

bhetti wrote:

Emor wrote:

I COMPLETELY agree. I am not saying that WrongPlanet is not beneficial- but I think that the amount of negative content here compared to the positive support on here is not a healthy ratio. I don't think it outweighs it as such, but it's still WAY too high.

you should visit the cult recovery board I frequent. this place is tame in comparison. but then, I don't read every post in every section, I'm only interested in picking apart the cult system in which I was entrapped, not dwelling on "good times" of which there were very few. does that make me a cult-bashing bag of negativity, or someone trying to sort out how I got here? I used to post 6-8 times a day there, now only a couple of times a week. people, even aspies, go through phases of life where they have to spend more time processing bad experiences to get past them (that was tongue in cheek in case it wasn't obvious).

I'm glad that you consider what I've specified a beneficial recovery process.
However, I beg to differ for others. I've seen people here with thousands of posts and I'd consider them still in this alleged 'recovery' process.
I also do think that this recovery process still is hard to justify considering it's dependent on bashing and discriminating against a certain group of people.

but wait.... you do realize it can take people from abusive systems 5 years or even longer, even with therapy, to get to the point of acceptance? some people with AS have had it way worse than you or me, and building expectations for a person's recovery timeline based on our own experience is harmful to everyone.

case in point: I was verbally and emotionally abused in the cult, and physically abused by my husband in the cult, for many years. my new husband could not wrap his head around the depth of my hatred for my ex, because in his mind it should take 3-4 years to recover from an abusive situation and move on to "forgiveness" (a BS religious construct, IMO).... until one day I asked him to witness one of the insane exchanges we go through on a regular basis and which leave me completely frustrated. after the exchange, my husband walked into the house and told me "everything I ever said about how you should get over it and move on, I'm sorry. I can understand why you're still frustrated and angry. that would drive me f***ing over the top."

after than little bit of understanding from another person, it got easier to let it go. now I'm at the point where I know I can't trust my ex, that given the odds at least 50% of the things he says are a lie, and it's not my problem. I live my life expecting him to lie, and I'm rarely disappointed. even when he does tell the truth, I've lost nothing by distrusting him. however, the thing that is changed, because of that bit of kindness from my present husband, is that I don't expect the same thing from everyone else so I can take each relationship as it comes.

I'd appreciate when people are having post directed at me(I'm assuming it's directed at me seeing as your quoting my message) that you explain the point of your analogy or just don't put in the analogy period, seeing as I'm having trouble interpreting them.
It'd appear that spending time with neurotypicals has been beneficial and ridded you of preconceived perceptions of all NTs. I don't really see how this pertains to an Autism Support Site which sports hatred towards NTs and has few NTs on the board anyway.
-Emor.

sorry, I should have snipped out the parts I wasn't responding to, so my statement would have context. my point was most people, if they go through the recovery process, get to the point where their anger and hurt, expressed as hatred, naturally turn into acceptance.

it takes a LOT LONGER when you're in circumstances where you can't escape the abuse. my husband thought I was hurting myself my holding onto the hatred for my ex, but after seeing what I was put through, he recognized I was trapped in a cycle AGAINST MY WILL that prevented recovery from progressing. people will have other factors, like long-term abuse, ongoing abuse, social isolation, that make their circumstances difficult in ways neither you or I can imagine... and I've experienced being ostracized and isolated, and I've lost jobs because of AS, and I've been verbally abused over YEARS.

I also don't think the analogy of NT hatred being like hating people with dark skin really works. I think the functional gap would actually be more like if there was a significant population of sociopaths who expected average NTs to compete with them on a daily basis for personal space and job security. it would cause fear and distrust, and hatred, in the NTs and the only way to carve out a bit of safety would be to try to think like a sociopath, to act like a sociopath, or at least understand sociopathic thinking patterns well enough to be able to avoid the common pitfalls in interaction.

Last edited by bhetti on 13 Sep 2009, 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bhetti
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13 Sep 2009, 3:17 pm

Tahitiii wrote:

DonkeyBuster wrote:

Hatred is not overcome by hatred.
Hatred is only defeated by love.
This law is eternal and true.
~ Buddha

bhetti wrote:

this statement is untrue, except in the narrow application of managing your own attitude.

Actually, it's the only thing that's true.
Love doesn't always work, but hate never works. It only creates more problems.

hate was what helped me build armor to protect myself from my ex. it has its valid uses, and it saved me from many problems.

I'm not a fan of hate, trust me. I would like to see it largely abolished except in cases where it's necessary to aid personal safety. it's right up there with greed in contributing to the downfall of civilization... although, personally, I think hate is usually spawned and fanned by greed -- and love doesn't overcome that mess.

LePetitPrince
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13 Sep 2009, 3:18 pm

Thank you,emor.

Tahitiii
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13 Sep 2009, 3:24 pm

bhetti wrote:

I also don't think the analogy of NT hatred being like hating people with dark skin really works. I think the functional gap would actually be more like if there was a significant population of sociopaths who expected average NTs to compete with them on a daily basis for personal space and job security. it would cause fear and distrust, and hatred, in the NTs and the only way to carve out a bit of safety would be to try to think like a sociopath, to act like a sociopath, or at least understand sociopathic thinking patterns well enough to be able to avoid the common pitfalls in interaction.

Bingo.
I am punished on a daily basis for NOT being a sociopath. I need to figure out how to defend myself from them without becoming like them. And I need to do it without the social instincts that make life so easy for the sociopath. Every calculation is conscious. Without support, that would require an IQ of about 400.

Tahitiii
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13 Sep 2009, 3:34 pm

bhetti wrote:

hate was what helped me build armor to protect myself from my ex.
it has its valid uses, and it saved me from many problems.

Same here. Real life is complicated.
I said "Love doesn't always work," thinking of the 20 years I wasted, turning the other cheek and hoping that this ba*turd would figure it out. He never did. Now all I'm trying to do is defend myself. I don't need to retaliate, but I do need to stay on guard. Forgiveness and reconciliation are not on the menu.

alba
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13 Sep 2009, 3:36 pm

DonkeyBuster wrote:

You are engaging in the very behavior you claim to despise... the lumping together of a group of people (WP) so that you can feel superior to them and dismiss them.

QFT

Maggiedoll wrote:

I really don't think this thread is healthy...

IMO the thread should have been locked when Maggie posted that comment, as she was right.
I find this thread way beyond unhealthy, it seems also to be deliberately violating the support nature of our forum. And that is personally offensive to me, as an Aspie who has benefitted from WP.

DonkeyBuster nailed it. From my POV, apparently the OP is making accusations for the ego tripping fun of it, on the pretense of being concerned for our well being. I find this "concern" laughable, impossible to take seriously. He wants to dish it, but can't take it. From what I've experienced IRL, I've had enough of this type of condescension from bullies. I was experiencing intense despair when I came to WP a year ago. Doing better now, and that is very much because of being allowed to vent. Yeah, I may have been wrong about some things, but healing meant venting. To process the pain, the venting was/is necessary. I'm very sensitive and wary of people mocking me, and for some reason, I felt that was the intent of the OP from the get-go. Sorry, but I feel violated by this thread.

Last edited by alba on 13 Sep 2009, 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bhetti
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13 Sep 2009, 3:52 pm

alba wrote:

To process the pain, the venting was necessary.

it is a necessary part of the process, and I don't agree with people who think it should be kept out of public view. I lived a lot of my life not knowing that what people did to me was wrong, because of being isolated. because of internet fora, I got out of an abusive cult, I learned how to deal with my narcissistic ex, I learned how to defend myself in court against him, and I learned about AS and found help transitioning to a completely different self-image.

some days I want to say things that would curl people's hair, but I don't because of ongoing legal issues. I think people with AS would understand that I'm venting, but if my ex or his lawyer got a hold of it, my feelings would be turned into something they're not in a courtroom circus.

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13 Sep 2009, 3:55 pm

Emor, I know where you are coming from. I actually had friends at 14, believe it or not. I was happy.

You are likely to continue in a positive vein throughout your life. I didnt. Everything fell apart for me after I left high school. Aspergers was mostly unheard of when I was 18, and I was forced to face the world with my rudimentary, inadequate social skills.

What a disaster the next 8 years were... and I count myself lucky because I discovered AS at 25.. whereas some of the people on this board didnt discover it until they were in their 30s, 40s or 50s.. 60s for my father.

I needed this board, and yes I was a pretty negative person when I joined. But it helped to meet others who had had similar problems to me, as in my life I was surrounded by people who didnt have poor social skills.

I think the real problem in the world is not this board, but the lack of real services for adults. I went to a psychologist a month back and she told me that if I gained a diagnosis, there wouldnt be a lot of services for me. Most of the services for AS are aimed at parents and their children. When I was overseas, 3 of my AS friends were turned away from the autism organisations because the people who run them dont like dealing with autistic adults.

More help was available at the local university... which ran a social skills class which any adult could attend. But dont you think its a little weird that autism charities seem to not include adults in their services?

The point I am making is, you really dont know where a lot of the adults on the board are coming from. Im not sure what I would like to do with my life, but I think I would like to help more services become available to adults so a few websites dont end up the only port of call for AS and autistic adults.

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