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AnnieK
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04 Oct 2009, 12:44 am

I've always been highly skeptical of a lot of claims of famous historical figures or celebrities being autistic or having asperger's because a lot of it seems to be - hey, they're not normal, they *must* be autistic. I've long doubted that someone like Einstein could be autistic because he actually had good social skills (internally he may have been a loner but he knew how to interact with people) and I never saw any hints of typical autistic behavior in descriptions of him. His problems with authority were not because of his lack of understanding of social norms but rather the fact he was extremely stubborn. When he wanted to be he was extremely charming and sociable. However the physicist Dirac was always someone I thought might genuinely have autism because of things such as his tendency to take statements extremely literally and his genuine inability to understand how other people could not possibly understand what he said and thus he must repeat it over and over again word for word (lack of empathy) and his tendency to not show emotion (robot-like visage) and his tendency to stick to routines and repetitive behavior. It looks like a recent biography has the same view.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... t=1&f=1007

Quote:
Dr. FARMELO: Yeah. Well, I have to say, I wouldn't say he was humorless. He actually did like jokes, and some of them quite - some quite racy jokes. But taken as a whole, if you look at his behavior, and I did -honestly, I did not start out the book thinking that he was autistic. I mean, but when I look back after several years of research and looked at all the evidence, then in my view, you take the definition of autism, the medical definition of autism, and you compare it to every single aspect of his behavior, then I would say the evidence is very compelling that Dirac is - or was a classic example of someone who is autistic.

FLATOW: What kind of evidence are you talking about? Give us an idea.

Dr. FARMELO: Well, you look at all the classic symptoms, so to speak: very repetitive behavior, found empathy extremely, extremely difficult, man of extremely few words. I mean, is it - Dirac is someone who - there was actually a unit called a Dirac, which was one word an hour, which was used in Cambridge.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Dr. FARMELO: Someone of extremely narrow range of interests, or at least, it certainly appeared like that in his younger years. Later on, when he was at Florida State University on the faculty there, I mean, he did loosen up, somewhat. But if you go through it systematically…

FLATOW: Yeah.

Dr. FARMELO: …it's really - I think the evidence is very compelling.


Quote:
Dr. FARMELO: …he, nonetheless, had some very successful graduate students, nearly all of whom he said they were very, very bright. Dirac was a hands-off (unintelligible). He had people like Harish Chandra, the great mathematician, one of his students. Dennis Sciama, Stephen Hawking's supervisor, was supervised by Dirac. So, he did have successful students. But I don't think he'd be - most…

FLATOW: Right

Dr. FARMELO: …people's idea of a successful supervisor.

FLATOW: Well, did he talk to them mathematically? With the trouble speaking verbally to anybody, did he open up to them verbally, or did he - you know, just one who gets to the blackboard and puts the equations or explains the math to them?

Dr. FARMELO: He wouldn't open up in the same way that you or I would open up. But he did - he had the rudiments of supervision in a sense that he knew you had to give your students soluble problems. But the idea of being a support and an infuser, that was lost on Paul Dirac.

FLATOW: And put all these together, that's why you're thinking that he might have been autistic.

Dr. FARMELO: Well, yes. I mean, as I said, I looked up this whole behavior when making that speculation.

FLATOW: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. FARMELO: And it is a speculation.


Why isn't Dirac as well known as Einstein (or even Feynman who was also very socially talented) despite him being one of the top scientists of the 20th century and at the time the youngest person to win the Nobel Prize in physics (he was only 31)?

Quote:
FLATOW: But he never got the celebrity that Einstein did.

Dr. FARMELO: Oh, no. That's absolutely right. He didn't want it. He would actually pose as an ordinary member of the public when officials came looking for him, really. I mean, Heisenberg would actually - one of his colleagues in quantum physics would actually lie and say that he's nowhere to be seen, whereas Dirac was actually sitting behind the photographers, right?

FLATOW: Wow.

Dr. FARMELO: He just didn't want anything to do with it. You know, and part of the reason, you know, that Dirac wasn't famous is he had no great moment where a scientist is suddenly propelled into celebrity. I mean, Einstein had one in 1919. He was famous to his colleagues, but the public knew nothing about him. But then, it was arranged that there would be this great conflict between Einstein and Newton over the bending of starlight. And then overnight, Einstein became a world celebrity.

FLATOW: Right.



From wikipedia:

Quote:
Margit, known as Manci, visited her brother in 1934 in Princeton from her native Hungary and, while at dinner at the Annex Restaurant (1930s–2006[12]), met the "lonely-looking man at the next table." This account came from a physicist from Korea who met and was influenced by Dirac, Y.S. Kim, who has also written "It is quite fortunate for the physics community that Manci took good care of our respected Paul A. M. Dirac. Dirac published eleven papers during the period 1939-46. ... Dirac was able to maintain his normal research productivity only because Manci was in charge of everything else."[13]

A reviewer of the 2009 biography writes: "Dirac blamed his [emotional] frailties on his father, a Swiss immigrant who bullied his wife, chivvied his children and insisted Paul spoke only French at home, even though the Diracs lived in Bristol. 'I never knew love or affection when I was a child,' Dirac once said." She also writes that "[t]he problem lay with his genes. Both father and son had autism, to differing degrees. Hence the Nobel winner's reticence, literal-mindedness, rigid patterns of behaviour and self-centredness. [Quoting the biography:] 'Dirac's traits as a person with autism were crucial to his success as a theoretical physicist: his ability to order information about mathematics and physics in a systematic way, his visual imagination, his self-centredness, his concentration and determination.'"[14]
[edit] Personality

Dirac was known among his colleagues for his precise and taciturn nature. When Niels Bohr complained that he did not know how to finish a sentence in a scientific article he was writing, Dirac replied, "I was taught at school never to start a sentence without knowing the end of it."[15] He criticized the physicist J. Robert Oppenheimer's interest in poetry: "The aim of science is to make difficult things understandable in a simpler way; the aim of poetry is to state simple things in an incomprehensible way. The two are incompatible."[16]

Dirac himself wrote in his diary during his postgraduate years that he concentrated solely on his research, and only stopped on Sunday, when he took long strolls alone.[citation needed]

An anecdote recounted in a review of the 2009 biography tells of Werner Heisenberg and Dirac sailing on a cruise ship to a conference in Japan in August, 1929. "Both still in their twenties, and unmarried, they made an odd couple. Heisenberg was a hedonist who constantly flirted and danced with women on the ship, while Dirac—'an Edwardian geek', as [biographer] Graham Farmelo puts it—suffered agonies if forced into any kind of socialising or small talk. 'Why do you dance?' Dirac asked his companion. 'When there are nice girls, it is a pleasure,' Heisenberg replied. Dirac pondered this notion, then blurted out: 'But, Heisenberg, how do you know beforehand that the girls are nice?'"[14]

According to a story told in different versions, a friend or student visited Dirac, not knowing of his marriage. Noticing the visitor's surprise at seeing an attractive woman in the house, Dirac said, "This is... this is Wigner's sister". Margit Dirac told both George Gamow and Anton Z. Capri in the 1960s that her husband had actually said, "Allow me to present Wigner's sister, who is now my wife."[17][18]

Dirac was also noted for his personal modesty. He called the equation for the time evolution of a quantum-mechanical operator, which he was the first to write down, the "Heisenberg equation of motion". Most physicists speak of Fermi-Dirac statistics for half-integer-spin particles and Bose-Einstein statistics for integer-spin particles. While lecturing later in life, Dirac always insisted on calling the former "Fermi statistics". He referred to the latter as "Einstein statistics" for reasons, he explained, of "symmetry".[citation needed]



AnnieK
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04 Oct 2009, 2:31 am

Other anecdotes about Dirac:

http://www.dirac.ch/PaulDirac.html

Quote:
Once when someone, making polite conversation at dinner, commented that it was windy, Dirac left the table and went to the door, looked out, returned to the table and replied that indeed it was windy. It has been said in jest that his spoken vocabulary consisted of "Yes", "No", and "I don't know".


http://ashutoshchemist.blogspot.com/200 ... olden.html

Quote:
# Dirac's laconic nature is most well documented. Once, in the middle of a lecture, a student rose up and said to him, "Professor Dirac, I haven't understood equation no. 10". Dirac nodded and then, to the surprise of the student, simply continued writing. This happened once again. Finally, the student said, "Professor Dirac, why are you not answering my question?". To which Dirac replied "Question? Oh! I thought what you said was a statement, that you have not understood equation no.10"

# Dirac was a visiting member at the famed Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton. Usually there was a common telephone in the hall where the members had their offices. Whenever there was a call for Dirac, it was amusing for the other members to hear his conversation, punctuated almost exclusively by "yes" and "no". Once Dirac wanted to submit an advance copy of a talk he was going to give to a newspaper. He was concerned that the talk might be published before he delivered it. So he walked into an office where two of his colleagues, Abraham Pais (chronicler of physicists' lives and one time assistant to Einstein) and Jeremy Bernstein (another well known chronicler of physicists' lives) were having a conversation. He told them about the problem and one of them advised him to send a note along with the talk to the newspaper saying "Not to publish in any form". Dirac heard this and stood in the doorway. After an awkward silence, (and also because they were used to this behaviour) his colleagues resumed their conversation with each other. After about fifteen minutes, Dirac finally asked them, "Don't you think that the words 'in any form' in the above phrase are redundant?"

# My personal favourite Dirac anecdote concerns a sea voyage to Japan, on which he was travelling with his friend and colleague, Werner Heisenberg. Heisenberg was the exact opposite of Dirac. Talkative and flamboyant, he used to the take part regularly in the weekly social events on the ship, including the dances. During these events, Dirac used to quietly sit in a corner, if he came at all that is, and watch. Once, just before a dance was going to begin, he asked Heisenberg, "Heisenberg, why do you dance?". At this typical Diracian question, all that Heisenberg could say that time was "Well, when there are pretty and nice girls, then I feel like dancing with them". Dirac fell silent. After a long time, he called Heisenberg and asked him, "How do you know beforehand that the girls are nice?"



ruveyn
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04 Oct 2009, 3:52 am

P.A.M. Dirac was an Aspie almost for sure. In Einstein's case it is not nearly as certain. Einstein was sociable and very charming, especially with the ladies and he was a bit of a rogue who did not treat the women in his life particularly well. He was cruel to his first wife Maleva, and totally used his second wife who was also his cousin. Feynman was almost surely not an Aspie. He was sociable and he was a clown and a practical joker. He was also super brilliant as a physicist. Strangely enough he scored "only" 125 on I.Q. tests which tells us what I.Q. tests are worth.

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Janissy
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04 Oct 2009, 9:05 am

Quote:
AnnieK wrote:
Why isn't Dirac as well known as Einstein (or even Feynman who was also very socially talented) despite him being one of the top scientists of the 20th century and at the time the youngest person to win the Nobel Prize in physics (he was only 31)?]


Why isn't he as well known? Probably because he actually was autistic and Einstein and Feynman weren't (obviously I'm just wildly guessing but hey- it's a fun guessing thread). What I mean is that maybe it was the social aspects of Einstein and Feynman that put them on the pop culture radar. Joe Public got to know about Einstein through the cute, fun photos of him that accompanies articles. If if Joe Public couldn't understand the math and appreciate it that way, the photo of him riding around on a bike endeared him to people because it looks so sweet and then there's the iconic "tongue sticking out" photo that appears on dorm room walls everywhere. Can you imagine Dirac doing that? Plus Einstein made the famous statement "God does not play dice with the universe" which is a pop culure-friendly hook statement that is unlikely to be coined by an autistic man who only says literally true things.

Feynman is less well known but those who know of him in a pop culture context are probably most familiar with how he loved to be goofy and jokey and how he did less well on an IQ test than any of Terman's Termites yet got farther academically- those are pop culture things to know and I know them without being able to understand any of the physics he described.

Dirac seems in this biography to be a guy who would never do the things that get you on the pop culture radar, because of his (presumed) autism. Sticking his tongue out at a camera? Never! Coining a catchy and not-literal saying? Never!



immanuel
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04 Oct 2009, 9:58 am

Thanks for that, OP. Reading stuff like that always makes me feel better.



UnusualSuspect
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04 Oct 2009, 11:08 am

The question should really be "Why isn't Dirac better known to the general public?" My answer is: why does it matter? His importance is to physics, and I'm sure he's as well known in the physics community as Feynman, Einstein, Heisenberg, etc.


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Nightsun
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04 Oct 2009, 11:18 am

Actually Dirac is only "more" autistic than Einsten. You don't know how Einstein behave socially before 30s. At 30s many Spectrum people could have developed some kind of social skill.



ruveyn
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04 Oct 2009, 3:29 pm

Nightsun wrote:
Actually Dirac is only "more" autistic than Einsten. You don't know how Einstein behave socially before 30s. At 30s many Spectrum people could have developed some kind of social skill.


He was married before he was thirty and seemed to be quite the bon vivant, to the point that he neglected his classes when he was in school. Minkowski the mathematician referred to Einstein as a "lazy dog".

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05 Oct 2009, 3:11 am

Well, I risked to repeat one year at school because I didn't went there but just crowled around. I maried at 23, had a child at 25 and DXed with Aspenger. So? Unusual =/= impossible.



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02 Aug 2014, 4:41 pm

From an article I just came across:

Dirac was a slight man and autistic, widely known as hard to draw out. He said this concentration proved crucial to his success as a theoretical physicist, for he could remain focused on a problem for a long time. He also could order information about mathematics and physics in a systematic way, employing his visual imagination and determination. (Decades later, I saw medical practice focus on this supposed disorder, ?fixing? it with drugs and therapy. How many geniuses have we lost this way?)

I asked him how he concentrated solely on his research. ?I don?t talk,? he said with admirable brevity and a smile. He also said he only stopped work on Sunday, when he took long strolls alone. He had struggled to find the Dirac equation for months, getting nowhere, then took his usual Sunday walk?and the entire solution came to him when he was crossing a small bridge. He hurried to a nearby pub, asked for lunch and wrote the equation on the back of the menu so he would not forget. He seldom looked directly at anyone, but this time he stared me in the eye. ?There it was, out of nowhere.?


http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=31230