Pattern Thinkers. Is my mind strange also for an Aspie?

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rdos wrote

While there are some differences (I do mental math without thinking about it), your thought process is remarkably similar to mine. I think in neither words nor pictures (concepts?), and need to translate thoughts into words before expressing them. Never having done programming, I am unsure whether I would prefer bottom-up or top-down thinking in that context. I don't seem to have a particular predilection for either, and engage in lateral thinking as well.

Nightsun wrote



My picture memories from childhood are very few and dim. My most vivid memories are intellectual. One of the earliest is from Grade 4 when we were first introduced to "science" and were taught the six basic machines and their corresponding formulae/ratios. I was so moved by, and in awe of, this revelation that the emotion I felt will be with me always.

fiddlerpianist wrote



haha, interesting. I have always done similar, and to a degree that it is somewhat of a social deficit. It is almost a compulsion with me to list off various methods of solving a problem/attaining a goal, even when I know people just view this as a complete waste of time. I don't mind opining which I think is the best option, but you are right, people just want to hear the optimum solution. I spent years trying to stifle the urge to do this.

And Inventor, I recall once completing that personality test and I came out INTJ, too.

Another 1%, that brings the sector up to 7%.

I'm definitely a pattern thinker. I've learned to do analytical thinking but it doesn't come as naturally to me.

And I'm an INTP - strong I, but more moderate on the rest. I try to "live for the moment" when my brain needs a rest, but I seem destined to absorb information, plan, organize, systematize, and dwell on deep thoughts.

I believe that, by providing all of the information they need to make an optimized decision on their own, I am somehow absolving myself of a potentially bad decision. For instance, if I said, "You could go this way but it is often more trafficky; decide for yourself," if they then proceed to get stuck in traffic, they won't blame me.

Off-topic:
@fiddlerpianist:
hey, my daughter and my wife can listen to your music on youtube for 2 hours... good job

In-Topic:
one of the main stereotype of autism/Asperger is being single-minded, being unable to accept changes, being litteral. I'm seing in another thread here on WP that basically 50% of AS/Aspie are INTJ or INTP and actually INTJ personalities should be "the opposite" of the classical stereotype while INTP can sometimes work with it but it's also pretty different, so... isn't it strange? Expecially if we consider that in the total population INTx are 2% while here we are around 50% (25 times more common)?

This is from INTJ:

This is from INTP:





From Coming to Terms with Asperger's Syndrome: The Alien Point of View (pretty interesting) http://www.hermetica.info/AS.html

About hyperfocus, detail, whole


About left-right brain: I've taken a test on the net and it results that I'm right-dominant, It's pretty strange for me because everyone used to say that I'm left dominant because I'm "very rational and analytical" but looking at the previous quote it can explain the point. Usually for NT and "usual psycology": left = analysis, right = feeling. For me is simply left = analysis, right = "integration". I probably use my right brain more, simply I use it in a "different way" and here is all the "left brain theory" fails.

Cool. Do they have contra dance in Italy? They ought to try it if there's one near you. It's really a blast.


I don't really know which I am. People always thought I was right-brain dominant growing up because I was musically gifted. However, I've always thought that I was left-brain dominant. I've never considered myself to be particularly "creative" in the traditional sense of the word (though I certainly think out-of-the-box). Rather, I systemize something to the point of understanding all of the elements which make up the particular sound I'm trying to achieve. I've always been good at imitation, and I think it's for this reason.

A bit of an aside... I don't personally buy into the idea that the brain is "all autistic" or "all neurotypical." I strongly believe there is middle ground, i.e. some areas of the brain which operate more autistically than others, and that it varies wildly between individuals. So many people here have latched onto the studies which show the brain differences, but how effectively have the borderline cases (people like myself) really been studied? I have a really hard time chalking up "mildness" simply to a supposed stellar ability to compensate.

By the way, I was talking to a few of my friends recently about pattern thinking. One is a fellow computer geek; the other is a fellow musician and mathematician. They thought the explanation was very insightful and explained their thought processes very well. Neither are officially on the spectrum, but they certainly have traits here and there (one has an AS nephew). We all love patterns dearly, but we love them differently in different ways.

Usually people think that I'm left-brained due to my work. The image test:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/right- ... 1114603615

usually come up with right brain but sometimes I see it in the other direction (that's cool). Other only test usually told that I have 48% left, 52% right. So I'm basically at the center.

I can see it going counter-clockwise, but I feel like it's a totally uphill battle to do so. If I just relax and see the image naturally, she's totally going clockwise.

I think the whole concept of brain-side dominance determining abilities or potential is a bit overrated. We are remarkably adaptive animals and we often use our brains in different ways. AS, for instance, is a prime example.

fiddlerpianist wrote

It could also be that there are vast differences in how well the two sides of the brain communicate with each other. When I first heard of the concept of right brain/left brain years ago, I determined that I was both. Now when I look at the rotating lady (I looked several times) I find that at first glance it can be rotating either way, and that I can change its direction at will by looking out of the corner of either eye.

I went to INTJ forum ( www.intjforum.com ) and looked at an "Aspie-quiz" thread they have. It seems that around 70% get very likely to be Aspie, 10% very likely to be NT, 20% both trait. I'll try to get better data, and I'd like to find the same in the INTP forum. I'll search.

I definitely have a much easier time seeing it turn clockwise and I'm very much a math/science guy.

Nature provides for us the dots, and we connect them.

ruveyn

Abstract thinking got all to do with intelligence, it is basically intelligence. Some tests like the Raven are also made for measuring pattern thinking (or a least they try to...). My brain don't allow me to find the logical pattern of the last question (and some others) of this test http://iqtest.dk/main.swf, but you Nightsun, it's likely you can. (As you do get good results a this kind of tests.) A logic, a pattern that avoid my grasp, because I'm too dump to see it. The IQs tests really do measure intellectuals abilities, or at least some of their manifestations.

People with high IQS really do have a diiferent way of thinking and see things. Without being autism peoples with high IQ do tend to feel isolated because their "different". Certainly a highly intelligent asperger do experience some of this "difference" as well. And, yes it's likely that his mind is different from most aspies. A greater capacity for abstract and pattern thinking could indeed be among of this difference. So far it's only "smart" and "intellectual" peoples who have answer in this tread, also.

(BTW, It's really difficult for me too to remenber lyrics and people names too... Wonder from what it could be coming from.... Some learning disabilties linked to AS maybe...)


Even though I'm science oriented, I see the figure turning clockwise.

This pretty much describes me perfectly.

To add food for thought to this thread - I view abstraction(s) as objective concepts. That is to say, they are "laws" (such as mathematical laws) that apply to all elements within their scope (whether that be the entire universe or a defined set) regardless of whether or not anyone is observing them.

An example of an abstraction would be to say that 1+1=2. We can understand this as a "law" of mathematics without tangibly holding an item in one hand and another item in our other hand and saying that we have two.

Abstract thinking in general requires objective perception, which I define as the ability to perceive an object, person, situation, etc... from all conceivable perspectives, including those that are unpleasant to the observer. It is a "birds-eye view" that enables the observer to perceive situations in ways that most people do not because their viewpoints are colored by their own biases. It originates from an internal sense of disconnection between one's own desires and the ultimate "truth" of reality.

In other words, I don't care how much I want to believe anything, regardless of how beneficial or non-beneficial it would be to me. My sense of objectivity has given me all of the options, and I have parsed out the best one based upon what would be best for the world overall.

This is not much of a big deal when dealing with something like a mathematical equation. It becomes a major problem in social situations where bias is ultimately required to create the emotional bonds that NTs require to form relationships.

Those who have objective perception (and from reading this thread I can tell that some of you do), will mostly likely find that people are disinterested in them because they refuse to show others that they're willing to sacrifice their own beliefs for the sake of others/the group. You believe what you believe because you have considered each and every one of the options involved and have come to what you trust is the best conclusion. You also understand that the NT "groupthink" is often wrong because you have seen it fail time and time again. And if you're anything at all like me, you cannot help but sit back and wonder about how NTs could be so stupid to fall for it.

@Tollorin
I do pretty well in every IQ test, but I really shine in Raven's matrix, the main problem I see for me (and probably for many Aspie) in test like that is that actually the solution is not unique. Basically I can usually see more than one possible pattern and not always it agree with the one chocen by the psic. In a math language usually the problem is not well defined.

@atheory0101
I completly agree with you, one of the main problem I have with people is that they tend to mix-up different "brain areas", If I want to solve a problem I'll try to detach me from its reality and find the "mathematical solution" of it. This procedure is alien to a great percent of the population. That's why for most people morality come before ethics. I think that I don't have morality at all

I have both the Grandin-type visual thinking and pattern/system-based thinking. I'm an INFJ.

The left/right brain thing is so exaggerated out of proportion by BS pop psychology it's sad. the real distinction between the two is that the left hemisphere cortical neurons prefer more local, nearby connections while the right hemisphere prefers more wide-ranging connections. So if somebody says "cow" the left hemisphere would generate associations like "milk" "beef", "manure", etc. while the right hemisphere would generate associations like "barnyard smell", "staying at Aunt Lucy's farm", etc.