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Serissa
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25 Feb 2006, 12:12 pm

This comes up in light of recent events here but it came up before with an NT friend as well. Maybe it's a guy thing; but some people don't seem to understand that sometimes you have to apologize whether or not you actually think you're wrong, just to make things go more smoothly. If you "don't want to lie," say you're sorry for upsetting the person you're apologizing to, if applicable. And do NOT say "I'm sorry, but..." as that negates the apology.

I wish more people understood this. It would prevent a lot of upset in the world on a person-to-person level and possibly even more generally than that.



Nomaken
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25 Feb 2006, 1:34 pm

I want there to be an expression which one says to make the other less pissed at you but doesnt technically mean you regret anything you did.


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NeantHumain
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25 Feb 2006, 2:16 pm

To me, an apology implies not only that you are sorrowful for the injury (i.e., misunderstanding, insult, emotional upset, whatever) you've caused another but also that you wouldn't have done it in the first place if you had known better. If you're not sorry enough to wish you could have changed the course of action you had taken, you're not really sorry, in my opinion.

If you did not mean to cause someone harm but still would have taken this course of action, you can apologize for the side-effect your course of action had on someone while not wishing that the action itself could be undone.

Of course, apologies can seem profoundly sorrowful while being nothing of the sort. An example follows:

NeantHumain wrote:
I Just Wanted to Say...

It's true, the rumors you've been hearing. No doubt you were skeptical at first, but the sad truth is they were right all along. I have to come clean, so here's my story.
--------------
I'm trying to choke back the tears as I write this; the allegations have nipped at the very core of my being. The worst thing about this mess is that it's not some fabrication. It's real; it happened; I'm ashamed.

I look back upon history, seeing what wisps of men I've been compared to. My politics have been likened to those of Stalin, although I have no gulags. My tangents have been criticized as more horrific than those of any troll who has set keystroke on the Internet. I'm trapped in a cell of grief.

My pulse rises as I hear the rumors spread all around, becoming more distorted at each iteration. I'm almost at a loss for words—almost. I cannot continue to fear the truth; I must accept it. The sweat of panic oozes from every pore of my body as I write this, but I must go on.

My only wish is that you will move on, too, and forget this mishap.

This was written as a work of satire. I would not be so insincere in an actual apology I made to someone.



Emettman
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25 Feb 2006, 2:26 pm

I'd start with "I'm sorry you feel that way"

<I'm sorry> is the first phrase to be heard, and often helps.
And it's an expression that can be used without compromising truth.
THEN, according to reaction, you can choose either to hold your ground, or explore the situation: "What were you expecting/hoping for?" "What has upset you?"


Even with the best handling you are not going to win them all, and provided you've made the effort to make sure it's not your fault, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.

(If it is your fault, 'fess up. Nothing works better, and limits the damage better.)



Serissa
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25 Feb 2006, 3:05 pm

Emettman wrote:
I'd start with "I'm sorry you feel that way"

<I'm sorry> is the first phrase to be heard, and often helps.
And it's an expression that can be used without compromising truth.
THEN, according to reaction, you can choose either to hold your ground, or explore the situation: "What were you expecting/hoping for?" "What has upset you?"


Even with the best handling you are not going to win them all, and provided you've made the effort to make sure it's not your fault, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.

(If it is your fault, 'fess up. Nothing works better, and limits the damage better.)


I disagree. "I'm sorry you feel that way" is not AT ALL an apology.
Nomaken wrote:
I want there to be an expression which one says to make the other less pissed at you but doesnt technically mean you regret anything you did.


That would be "I apologize." Saying ti makes it true. If you say "I apologize" then you are apologizing.



jman
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25 Feb 2006, 3:19 pm

IMO a true apologies not only involves saying you're sorry but empathizing with the person as well. For example I recently apologized to my ex g/f "Im sorry....trying to force you to like me must of made you feel guilty and trapped" tell them what you did wrong and tell him how you think it made them feel based on their reaction



for example,

My ex constantly fighting with me and ignoring me was her reaction to me smothering her as well as some other things I did I won;t even mention. :oops: But i apologized to her in the way i described above and it well very well. i didn;t expect it to go over as well as it did.

Serissa this was a good topic to bring up consider a certain person here doesn't seem to understand the concept of an apology. :roll:



Emettman
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25 Feb 2006, 3:42 pm

Serissa wrote:
Emettman wrote:
I'd start with "I'm sorry you feel that way"

<I'm sorry> is the first phrase to be heard, and often helps.


I disagree. "I'm sorry you feel that way" is not AT ALL an apology.

If you say "I apologize" then you are apologizing.


No, you are right, though on the whole I will not apologise, in your sense,
unless there is some possibility of having done something wrong.
"I'm sorry I didn't meet your expectations", perhaps.
Being at odds with someone is not, itself, grounds for apology, hence my phrasing above, expressing regret for *the situation* but not for my actions.
If I'm not sure what I should apologise for, "I apologise" is empty in the extreme.

I will show flexibility, and a desire to understand the problem,
but not an assumption that I am at fault.



Serissa
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25 Feb 2006, 7:46 pm

Emettman wrote:
No, you are right, though on the whole I will not apologise, in your sense,
unless there is some possibility of having done something wrong.
"I'm sorry I didn't meet your expectations", perhaps.
Being at odds with someone is not, itself, grounds for apology, hence my phrasing above, expressing regret for *the situation* but not for my actions.
If I'm not sure what I should apologise for, "I apologise" is empty in the extreme.

I will show flexibility, and a desire to understand the problem,
but not an assumption that I am at fault.


I'm feeling more and more compelled to cite the example of this that I saw IRL, so here's the basics:

Guy I know thnks he may be dating girl I know but is not "sure." Guy meets another girl at dance. Guy kisses girl. Guy tells girl I know. Girl I know is very, very hurt. Guy does not feel he did anything wrong because he did not know he was dating girl I know. Guy cannot fathom the reason for giving an apology.

Guy is being very, very stupid.

Girl I know should have an apology, because she feels she needs one. Guy I know wants to pursue relationship, guy I know is in the doghouse, guy I know needs to apologize even if it is a lie.

Oh well. He wound up buying her off with V-Day presents. So maybe an apology wasn't technically nessessary- but it would have been nice.

And cheaper.



Emettman
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26 Feb 2006, 2:29 am

Serissa wrote:

I'm feeling more and more compelled to cite the example of this that I saw IRL, so here's the basics:

Guy I know thnks he may be dating girl I know but is not "sure."
Guy meets another girl at dance. Guy kisses girl. Guy tells girl I know. Girl I know is very, very hurt. Guy does not feel he did anything wrong because he did not know he was dating girl I know. Guy cannot fathom the reason for giving an apology.


Guy is a dead duck. And doesn't appear to know when he's strolling through a minefield.
Mind you, when presented with a girl willing to be kissed, male folly doesn't surprise me.

"he did not know he was dating girl" is just bizarre, from my perspective.

No, an apology *IS* owing there.

Not being within the field of romantic encounters, I most commonly encounter demands or expectations for apologies in a work context, with people offended that promises or hopes that were only in their heads, and never made by me or my firm, have not been fulfilled.



Pandora
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26 Feb 2006, 6:11 am

Serissa, I agree that the guy in your example should have apologised. How could he not know he was dating the first girl? If he was going out with her, then he was dating her. I have a 15 year old daughter and some of her friends have been hurt the same way when boys they thought they were going out with kissed other girls and then the word got back to them.


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Serissa
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26 Feb 2006, 11:32 am

No, he genuinely did NOT know he was dating her, I can vouch for that. I didn't know, either, and I'm close to both of them- last I'd heard the girl didn't "like him that way" but that was awhile back, so I personally wasn't sure if she was humoring him or was delevoping an interest. And then apparently somwehre down the road she thought she was dating him; right before the other girl kissed him the girl I know made a bit of a grand gesture and held the guy's hand for a bit (big effort for her keeping in mind her touch issues- she's NT but has Aspish touch issues, so she hadn't kissed him and doesn't even hug him a lot or anything).

I'm living in a bleeping soap opera.

I wish people were more willing to make asses of themselves like I did entering my current relationship and actually ask if they're dating.



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26 Feb 2006, 11:49 am

Some of my female friends say I apologize too much, as if I am not taking a stand for like my beliefs or something else.


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Serissa
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27 Feb 2006, 4:31 pm

Oh gawd; now she's saying she just wants to be friends. She's too nice to say "f**k off." And so he will never LAY off. Ugh.



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27 Feb 2006, 9:57 pm

Lying about feeling sorry makes me feel guilty. If I'm not sorry, I won't pretend to be.


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